Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

[venture]

I agree that the AA name was always the main focus for a merger but disagree about the paint and logo. That's not what I'm hearing from my contacts at AA. It's not just about the cost of paint on a plane when making a change like that.

A couple of weeks ago there was one day when trying to reach anyone of significance at American was virtually impossible. Everyone was in a meeting. That told me that something big was getting ready to happen.

Well true...the brand building behind it is huge. I think the new logo and overall theme is great and will do them well. I think the aircraft paint scheme still has a chance of getting modified - at least the tail. Has it happened before? Japan Airlines and British Airways are two that come to mind right away that changed liveries quickly after rolling out "well thought out marketing plans." Delta has also been one that hasn't stayed married to a paint scheme for too long, but I think the revised widget is here to stay for awhile.

[Dubya61]

Any guesses on how the merger will impact Tulsa? Not flights so much as American's operations there.

[venture]

Any guesses on how the merger will impact Tulsa? Not flights so much as American's operations there.

I think maintenance should be okay, but might see more downsizing. US Airways has a history of farming a lot of it out, so we'll see. US Airways' executive team is going to be in control here, not American's which are all going to be "retired", so it'll be interesting to see how it evolves.

[catch22]

Also United used the Continental font for their original combined scheme of the merger, which was quickly reversed to a new font. So another example of reversal.

The new AA brand and livery is growing on me, however.

[OUman]

Why is Southwest ending MCI service? Not enough yield I suppose. And I guess it'slosing passengers to the new MDW service.

[venture]

Why is Southwest ending MCI service? Not enough yield I suppose. And I guess it'slosing passengers to the new MDW service.

You can't make money on flights going out with (at times) up to 100 seats empty. Raising MDW to 2x daily definitely made MCI pointless. I would like to see more to MDW, but also more going east as well.

[HOT ROD]

This merger business got me thinking about brands and which survive. It is clearly obvious that American, Delta, and United are the big 3 and would (and have) survived any merger along the years.

But What is the ultimate airline brand? United?

They have the longest history (oldest airline in the world) but something interesting is their logo "the tulip" has been retired. I am a longtime United/Star Alliance member and it is still so difficult for me to get used to seeing globes on United planes, but it is clear the name was more meaningful than Continental's even if they chose the globe over the tulip.

Any other thoughts on which of the big 3 would survive if any of them chose to merge? Scary to think, but I'm interested to hear what folks think.

[ljbab728]

This merger business got me thinking about brands and which survive. It is clearly obvious that American, Delta, and United are the big 3 and would (and have) survived any merger along the years.

But What is the ultimate airline brand? United?

They have the longest history (oldest airline in the world) but something interesting is their logo "the tulip" has been retired. I am a longtime United/Star Alliance member and it is still so difficult for me to get used to seeing globes on United planes, but it is clear the name was more meaningful than Continental's even if they chose the globe over the tulip.

Any other thoughts on which of the big 3 would survive if any of them chose to merge? Scary to think, but I'm interested to hear what folks think.

While it might be fun to speculate, I don't think the government will go along with any more merging of the big three.

[catch22]

American is adding 2 more daily flights to Dallas/Ft. Worth Intl. effective June indefinitely. They will be American Eagle flights in addition to the 7 mainline MD80 flights.

One flights is at 930am the other at 715pm.

Also, the 3rd daily flight to LAX on AA is also extended indefinitely.

[s00nr1]

That's great news considering those MD80 aircraft will be upgraded to 738's hopefully by the end of the year. I wonder if the AEagle equipment will be ER4 or CR7? Let's hope CR7 to keep two-class equipment consistent to DFW.

[catch22]

Both are 50 seaters. the 930 is a CRJ200, the 715 is an E145. OKC will be one of the last city's to receive the 738's/A319's.

[catch22]

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/Jan...%20Revised.pdf

Off to a good start.

[venture]

American and US Airways will officially make the merger announcement tomorrow morning.

[damonsmuz]

American and US Airways will officially make the merger announcement tomorrow morning.

Let the route,fleet, etc impacts on OKC speculation begin....

[damonsmuz]

Im guessing the MD-80 retirement will accelerate... and just for the fun of it, an airport in Oklahoma will be graced by the wheel markings of a DASH-8 on its runway...

[venture]

Let the route,fleet, etc impacts on OKC speculation begin....

Tough to say. What we do know about American. MD-80s are going away...slowly. CRJ-700s are being moved to DFW I believe and the EJets are going to ORD.

LAX I think stays the same.
DFW is going to 9, that might get pulled down to 6 or 7...but again it might not.
ORD could see upgrades to the EJets once they come on board. Should stick at 4 flights a day.

I would almost expect CLT with 2x to be added.

DCA and PHL might get one each. I think the DCA slot proposal right now dies completely. US Airways/AA is going to have to divest of slots (congrats JetBlue and Southwest) to competitors. So there is little chance they will award them an extra slot now. However, with the combined carrier it might be an option to broaden the reach of the DCA hub a bit more.

[venture]

Im guessing the MD-80 retirement will accelerate... and just for the fun of it, an airport in Oklahoma will be graced by the wheel markings of a DASH-8 on its runway...

Mmm, maybe maybe not. I think the MD-80s will continue to on the same schedule now. They are paid for so no need to rush. I don't expect any Dash 8s out here since US just used a handful of -300s and a couple dozen -100s. Not really enough to send them this way, and definitely not to operate in and out of DFW.

Of course they could decide to order the Q400s which might make a very attractive aircraft for LAW.

[damonsmuz]

I was only kidding on the DASH 8 However it's time we scream uncle on all the mergers...

[ljbab728]

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/Jan...%20Revised.pdf

Off to a good start.

The big increase by Frontier is interesting and a little surprising.

[venture]

I was only kidding on the DASH 8 However it's time we scream uncle on all the mergers...

We should be just about done I think now. Alaska/Southwest might be an interesting tie up down the road, I doubt it though. Frontier and Spirit could be an option. JetBlue and Hawaiian? Yes I'm grasping at straws now. Umm...Allegiant and no one. Who am I forgetting? Oh Virgin America and...Chapter 11.

[damonsmuz]

Frontier #'s look good on that paper and I've always enjoyed their service,but financewise not sure...I just bought a RT ticket to DEN for 168$. United was 226$ and I didn't check WN. I'd love to see how F9's pocketbooks are with fares that low....

[BG918]

Frontier #'s look good on that paper and I've always enjoyed their service,but financewise not sure...I just bought a RT ticket to DEN for 168$. United was 226$ and I didn't check WN. I'd love to see how F9's pocketbooks are with fares that low....

Frontier has some great deals. I wonder if they would ever merge with Alaska? They could dominate the west coast and mountain region, and still be a low cost airline with international service to Mexico and the Caribbean.

[ljbab728]

Frontier #'s look good on that paper and I've always enjoyed their service,but financewise not sure...I just bought a RT ticket to DEN for 168$. United was 226$ and I didn't check WN. I'd love to see how F9's pocketbooks are with fares that low....

United and WN offer the same fares to Denver that Frontier does. Apparently it just wasn't available on those airlines on the dates you needed. The lowest current fare on Southwest to Denver start at $157.80.

[catch22]

The numbers don't really show a full picture. It comes down to how many seats each airline is offering versus last year.

Last January Frontier didn't offer as many seats, neither did United. United and Frontier added many seats this year than last for Jan, while Delta offered fewer seats. Just take that into account.

[ljbab728]

The numbers don't really show a full picture. It comes down to how many seats each airline is offering versus last year.

Last January Frontier didn't offer as many seats, neither did United. United and Frontier added many seats this year than last for Jan, while Delta offered fewer seats. Just take that into account.

Number of seats or not, that's still a signifcant change for Frontier.