Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

[venture]

Welcome to the 2013 edition of this thread.

Below is the recap of the changes we saw in 2012 for Will Rogers Airport.

Destination	Airline	Jan 2012 Flights	Details	Dec 2012 Flights	Details	Change
Chicago O'Hare	American	4	2x CR7, 2x ER4	4	2x CR7, 2x ER4	0
Dallas/Ft Worth	American	7	7x MD80	7	7x MD80	0
Los Angeles	American	2	2x CR7	2	2x CR7	0
Atlanta	Delta	5	2x MD88, 1x CR9, 2x CR7	5	3x MD88, 1x CR9, 1x CR7	0
Detroit	Delta	2	2x CR7	2	1x CR9, 1x CR7	0
Memphis	Delta	3	3x CRJ	3	3x CRJ	0
Minneapolis/St Paul	Delta	2	2x CRJ	3	3x CRJ	1
Salt Lake City	Delta	2	2x CR7	3	3x CR7	1
Denver	Frontier	2	2x 319	2	1x 319, 1x E90	0
Baltimore	Southwest	1	1x 73G	1	1x 737	0
Chicago Midway	Southwest	0	1x 733 - June 3rd Start	1	1x 737	1
Dallas Love	Southwest	5	3x 73G, 2x 733	5	5x 737	0
Denver	Southwest	3	3x 737	3	3x 737	0
Houston Hobby	Southwest	4	4x 733	3	3x 737	-1
Kansas City	Southwest	2	1x 73G, 1x 733	2	2x 737	0
Las Vegas	Southwest	2	1x 73G, 1x 733	2	2x 737	0
Phoenix	Southwest	2	2x 73G	2	2x 737	0
St. Louis	Southwest	2	1x 73G, 1x 733	2	2x 737	0
Chicago O'Hare	United	5	4x CR7, 1x ER4	4	3x CR7, 1x ER4	-1
Cleveland	United	0	No service	0	Starting Feb 2013	0
Denver	United	4	1x 319, 3x ER4	4	1x 319, 1x CR7, 2x DH4	0
Houston Inctl	United	9	3x DH4, 6x ER4	10	1x 320, 1x CR7, 8x ER4	1
Los Angeles	United	1	1x CR7	1	1x CR7	0
New York/Newark	United	1	1x ER4	1	1x ER4	0
San Francisco	United	1	1x CR7	1	1x CR7	0
Washington Dulles	United	1	1x CR7	1	1x CR7	0

Announced Upcoming Air Service Changes - KOKC

• United Express starting service to Cleveland in February
• Southwest increasing Chicago Midway to 2x daily flights.
• Southwest offering seasonal nonstop service to Orlando from Feb 15 - April 13.
• American increasing LAX service from 2x daily to 3x daily in April.

Tulsa (KTUL) - Tulsa International

• Atlanta: Delta (1x 738, 1x 319, 2x CR9, 1x CR7)
• Chicago O'Hare: American (1x 738, 3x ER4), United (2x CR7, 2x ER4)
• Dallas/Fort Worth: American (2x 757, 1x 738, 4x M80, 1x ER3)
• Dallas Love: Southwest (5x 737)
• Denver: Southwest (3x 737), United (1x 738, 1x CRJ, 2x ER4)
• Detroit: Delta (2x CR7)
• Houston Hobby: Southwest (3x 737)
• Houston Intercontinental: United (8x ERJ)
• Las Vegas: Southwest (1x 737)
• Los Angeles: United (1x CR7)
• Memphis: Delta (1x CRJ)
• Miami: American (1x 738 - Saturday Only)
• Minneapolis/St. Paul: Delta (1x CRJ)
• New York/Newark: United (1x ERJ)
• Phoenix: Southwest (2x 737)
• Salt Lake City: Delta (1x CR7)
• St. Louis: Southwest (2x 737)
• Washington Dulles: United (1x CR7)

Announced Upcoming Air Service Changes - KTUL

• United will be ending LAX service in April.
• Southwest will start nonstop service, 1x daily, to Tulsa.

Lawton (KLAW) - Lawton/Ft. Sill Regional Airport

• Dallas/Fort Worth: American (5x ER3)

Other Oklahoma Airports that use to have recent commercial airline service:

• Enid: ENID WOODRING MUNI AIRPORT
• Guymon
• Ponca City
• Woodward: West Woodward Municipal Airport, Woodeward Oklahoma - City of Woodward

[venture]

Just to point out that United did announce they will end TUL-LAX service in April.

[catch22]

I think you meant to say TUL-MDW not "to Tulsa."

[venture]

I think you meant to say TUL-MDW not "to Tulsa."

Ugh yes. Oh well...beyond the edit point. :-/

[Celebrator]

What kind of loads does AA have on those 757s to DFW out of TUL? And why does TUL-ORD see mainline on AA? (Is it simply because of the maintenance base AA's has at TUL?) Also, how's the MIA flight doing on Saturdays from TUL? Also, was interesting to see that DL runs 738s and 319s to TUL and we see the MD88s here in OKC...wonder why?

[venture]

What kind of loads does AA have on those 757s to DFW out of TUL? And why does TUL-ORD see mainline on AA? (Is it simply because of the maintenance base AA's has at TUL?) Also, how's the MIA flight doing on Saturdays from TUL? Also, was interesting to see that DL runs 738s and 319s to TUL and we see the MD88s here in OKC...wonder why?

I would say a lot of it has to do with the mx base in TUL. However, I did want to answer your questions when it comes to the loads.

First Delta before I get into everything American. To ATL they are averaging a 72% load factor. Delta mainline is running at 62%. For OKC, we are averaging 71% load factor on Delta mainline, so stronger there and also in the overall at 76%. I wouldn't get hung up at all on the aircraft type. For the first 6 months of 2012 OKC-ATL had a total of 84,324 seats available. Tulsa only had 68,817 seats available. Keep in mind that the capacity on the MD-88s is going to be right between the 319 and 738, so to me it isn't a big deal at all.

AA between TUL and DFW average a load factor of 78% based on the first 6 months of 2012 (all that is currently available). If we look at the 757s only they were: Jan - 60%, Feb - 64%, Mar - 67%, Apr - 66%, May - 83%, and Jun - 83%. All in all pretty acceptable.

For AA on TUL-ORD average load factor is 66%. Now the American Eagle portion of the service is doing quite well most of the time. Load factors range from around 70% during Jan/Feb in the slow season and up into the mid 80s by Spring. If we look at mainline only, it is horrible. Jan - 21%, Feb - 23%, Mar - 39%, Apr - 39%, May - 53%, and Jun - 53%.

TUL-MIA on American appears to be seasonal service, based on the numbers the gov't has, and operates November through March. I'm adding 2011 as well to have a comparison. Looking at these numbers, any other airline would pull the plug on this service. However, I think they need to route a 738 up to TUL, so that is the only reason it is still around.

Month	Flights	Pax	Seats	Load Factor
Jan '11	9	428	1404	30.5%
Feb '11	2	141	320	44.1%
Nov '11	2	169	296	57.1%
Dec '11	5	427	752	56.8%
Jan '12	4	288	592	48.6%
Feb '12	4	310	604	51.3%
March '12	5	534	752	71.0%

[s00nr1]

Venture,
What's the word on when we might hear about the DCA route on US?

[catch22]

Venture,
What's the word on when we might hear about the DCA route on US?

DOT has a 90 day ruling period, IIRC. So we should hear about Southwest's new Houston-DCA route in February.

[s00nr1]

Anyone else really looking forward to this announcement? I sure am.

American Airlines

[Plutonic Panda]

Wow this should be interesting. Please keep updated on this.

[BoulderSooner]

Wow this should be interesting. Please keep updated on this.

new logo

“While American Airlines completes the evaluation of whether a merger could build on its strengths, it is important that it remains steadfast in the work that has been done and continues to be done to modernize the airline. Today, it takes the next step in that journey by revealing its much-anticipated new logo and livery.”

Airline Biz Blog | Dallas Morning News Business writers blog about airlines, travel and items of interest to the aviation community

[Plutonic Panda]

new logo

“While American Airlines completes the evaluation of whether a merger could build on its strengths, it is important that it remains steadfast in the work that has been done and continues to be done to modernize the airline. Today, it takes the next step in that journey by revealing its much-anticipated new logo and livery.”

Airline Biz Blog | Dallas Morning News Business writers blog about airlines, travel and items of interest to the aviation community

Oh, man! I was sure they were going to announce a new hub here in OKC! lol.. jk :P It will be neat to see what they come up with. A lot of companies have been changing out their logos.

[s00nr1]

Ya I knew the new livery was being announced today.....just interested to hear if there is any other news (US merger?).

[s00nr1]

This is what I have seen rumored:

[BoulderSooner]

that is terrible .. i guess we will see in 7 min

[venture]

It's terrible.

[s00nr1]

Aaaaaannd website launch fail.

[s00nr1]

Venture that is quite possibly the worst livery I've ever seen.....this coming from a long-time AA traveler.

[HangryHippo]

My god, that is the worst livery I have ever seen. Just because of this, I hope they merge with US Airways and take on their livery. This is nauseating.

[BoulderSooner]

on a crisp white plane i don't think it is terrible ..

[s00nr1]

After watching the video I can conclude that the US merger is just a matter of when now and not if.

[HangryHippo]

on a crisp white plane i don't think it is terrible ..

The planes aren't crisp white though. They're silver.

After rewatching the video, I don't think the new logo is all that bad, but that tail is just the absolute worst.

[s00nr1]

I was hoping they were just going to update the scissor eagle into a more modern look -- not completely abandon it. It absolutely blows my mind that they spent two years coming up with this very underwhelming new livery/logo. What was upper management thinking and how bad does their graphics team look??

[s00nr1]

Saw this on airliners.net and had a good laugh:

[HangryHippo]

haha, no lover for Cubana??

Well, to be honest, I guess I shouldn't have had much hope for AA's new livery based on the "design work" that went into their updated webpage. It's 2013 and they can't get a decent webpage? We got about the same quality with the new livery.