Home schooling

[mranderson]

"Up until this last January I home schooled my children. This of course meant for me, I did not have this high ticket expense right before school starts. When children are not around all the hoop-la of brand name clothing and are not made "fun of" for not wearing "sketchers", "Mudd jeans", or "Polo" brands they never know the difference. In my opinion it is the parents responsibity to teach their children the value of money and to burst the delusion that money grow on trees. My kiddos know that can get more for their money when they buy items from a garage sale (lets just say it this way to avoid spelling errors) then they can buy when they have to go to Wal-Mart to buy things. Ohhhh back to the topic..Shop at Ross and get the best of both worlds. THey have great name brand clothing at half the price. Did I mention I have a great garage sale once a year and one might find some good buys at my place. LOL"

The above message really caused me to think of something, and the topic it was from was not the appropriate place for it.

Just what do all of you think of home schooling?

My thoughts. I do not approve of it. Why? Most people who home school their kids are not qualified teachers. They have not been awarded an education degree nor been certified as a teacher. Therefore, they do not get the quality education of a structured school either public or private.

Plus, and this is my biggest reason. School teaches social skills. That is part of the reason we go to school. Without a structured environment, we would not have close friendships that often last a lifetime. Nor do we learn the social skills of being in a group setting.

I looked back not long ago on just how many TRUE friends I have. There are many whom I have not seen in 20 years or more, however, they are there for me. During my time at Batteries Plus and at Lowe's, I ran into several friends many had been 20 or more years since our last contact. I got comments like "I haver really missed you," "I have been trying to find you," "my, did we have fun." and others. I am in a time of my life at this point where I really need people supporting me. A planned career change, the aging of my parents, and others. I sometimes would think about maybe not having very many close friends, then all of a sudden, they appear. I am truly blessed. All but maybe three or four would not have been had it not been for a structured school.

The only education I really recieved away from school was political, business, and some of the caring taught by my mom.

Teaching kids away from school, yes, it has a purpose. But not the fundementals, what in the past was called the "three r's." A stuructred school environment is of great importance to the mental and social health of our youth.

All though I had some really rough times in junior high (I HATE the term Middle school) and half of high school, I look back with fondness of the times we had during elementry and the last half of high school. Of course, the rest had fond moments as well. Had I been home schooled, I would have none of those memories.

[floater]

I'm not dead set against it, but I wouldn't want it for my children, for much the same reason you said, mranderson, the social skills. I could be mistaken, but I think it took off in response to the teaching of evolution, where the parents want to stress creationism.

The factor you mentioned -- clothing fads, plus drugs and gangs/cliques -- are other reasons. But I totally agree, it's up to the parents to keep track of what their kids are learning from their peers and counter them if they are negative. I don't think shielding them from all that helps at all; you're only delaying what they'll find out later in life -- that it's not all comfortable, homogeneous, or fair. I went to a relatively affluent public high school, but we had all the same problems -- drugs, teenage pregnancy, fighting. And as a classmate, you learn from others' mistakes. It is a good thing to be exposed to all that.

[Midtowner]

Home schooling is a real Dr. Jeckyl/Mr. Hyde situation. I've known home-schoolers who were absolutely brilliant, well read, etc. On the other hand, I've known home-schoolers who managed to get their HS diploma but still couldn't read.

If parents can meet the same testing requirments that our professional school teachers meet as far as subject knowledge, I have no problem with it. If not, I think you're doing those kids a huge disservice.

[Ms.Relaxationstation]

Mr. Anderson....your comment ..."The above message really caused me to think of something, and the topic it was from was not the appropriate place for it" Obviously you have selective reading or maybe you were just so caught up in the first sentence that you just did not continue to read the rest of of my post where I addressed the comment at hand-name brand clothing.

As for homeschooling, maybe it would be beneficial for you to better educate yourself on the matter before you speak out of the opening on your face.

First, while it is true most people may not have an education degree, I for one do have a degree as do some of my other friends who homeschool. Most of the homeschool curriculum that is used is in fact, set at a higher pace of learning compared to public schools. The Oklahoma statute says that courses of instruction shall be those that are necessary to ensure:1) The necessary basic skills of learning and communication, including reading, English, and writing, the use of numbers and science. 2)The teaching of citizenship in the United States, in the State of Oklahoma, and in other countries..... Most homeschoolers find that it doesn't take nearly as much time to cover subjects as it does in a formal school, since the parents are able to provide individualized attention without many distractions.

Secondly, your biggest reason for being against homeschooling is "School teaches social skills." Homeschooling does not have the reputation as it once did. There are many many oppurtunities for social settings. There are also many activites that our children participate in with other homeschooled children. The difference between this and public school you ask.....well I could sum it all down to say "ATTITUDE." They are well behaved children having a modeling of good manners and good values from adults verses other "mean" kids. As I stated in my original post, my daughter was homeschooled until this past January when some unforseen circumstances made it difficult to continue teaching from home at this time. I sent my daughter back to school where she tested 2 grade levels ahead of her "school age level." She had a positive attitude and her self esteem was very high. A few months later kids make fun of her because she "Makes all A's and she's smart." Of course it is always the children/people who never quite make it in school/society that always tend to make such a big fuss and try to criticize (Much like yourself).

"I looked back not long ago on just how many TRUE friends I have. There are many whom I have not seen in 20 years or more, however, they are there for me. During my time at Batteries Plus and at Lowe's, I ran into several friends many had been 20 or more years since our last contact. I got comments like "I haver really missed you," "I have been trying to find you," "my, did we have fun." and others. I am in a time of my life at this point where I really need people supporting me. A planned career change, the aging of my parents, and others. I sometimes would think about maybe not having very many close friends, then all of a sudden, they appear. I am truly blessed. All but maybe three or four would not have been had it not been for a structured school." I am sorry to read that had it not been for school you would not have friends. I guess perhaps some people cannot make friends unless they are made to sit next to someone by assigned seating in school for a year. I am so grateful that my children talk to people wherever we go. They are able to carry conversations with others young and old and not just those in the same peer group.

I am glad to know that you got the best public school education you could and now carry that on to your jobs at Batteries Plus and at Lowe's. Much luck!

[mranderson]

I am not convinced home schooling is "different than it once was." When I was a kid, and even into my thirties, it was almost unheard of to home school kids. The only time I remember is when someone I know home schooled her children because she did not want them to go to school with blacks. As a result, she also ran successfully for the Oklahoma City school board and served one term. That was during the famous Finger plan. How is it "different?" Compared to when? Last year?

I can not see how home schooling will teach children to interact with other children and teach them proper social skills. Children must play with other children to learn how to socialize. What better place than the playground at school. They also must learn to socialize in a structured group setting which a classroom provides. This carries them to their adult working life. Without learning to act proper in a working environment, there could be problems.

I think I said MOST people do not have an education degree, and I do not believe your comments reflected that yours was an education degree with state teaching certification. By the way. I also have a degree, but that does not mean I am in favor of something that shelters a kid from proper socialization.

I do not have to educate myself on the matter to know in my heart that home schooling is not the proper environment for kids to learn proper social skills. They must learn most of those from playing with their peers and in a classroom setting which in some ways is like it will be when they go to work as adults. I would never allow my kids to be home schooled for that reason.

Every friend I had from elementry school lived at least a block away and some as many as six. In Junior High and High School, many lived as much as five miles away. One moved to Topeka and another to Marietta, Georgia, but we remain friends. I would not be able to know these people if it was not for school... With one exception. His mom was a family employee, and he had to kiss my rear end because I was the "bosses" son. In adulthood, I gained many friends from work. I probably would not be as successful (even though it could be better) if it had not been for the socialization I learned from school.

Every parent is proud of their kids. Even the occasional dad who shares a jail cell with his son. I will not comment on anything said about a persons kids in particular. Could your kid be an exception? Yes. There are exceptions to almost anything.

I was not "caught up" in the topic of clothing. Just like the topic midtowner and I have been revolving around with, this one is one I will not change my mind. I am NOT convinced home schooling is best for a child.

[Midtowner]

Relax --

In your case, it sounds like you're more than qualified to teach your kids. I have a very limited sample from which to draw on as far as my experience with homeschooled kids. But as you say, for the most part, they have been well mannered, good kids (was in cub/boy scouts with many). As for socialization, as you said, obviously, andy is quite off-base.

As I said, I did have the unfortunate experience while in college to work with a young man that had been homeschooled. The poor kid could not read or write yet claimed to have a high school education. I'm sure that there are plenty of kids graduating from our Oklahoma Public Schools that one could make that claim about as well.

As in anything, success is not something that is guaranteed. All that is asked of a parent is that he/she do their very best for their child. It should be up to them whether or not to homeschool their kids. If they are able, I think it can be a wonderful thing.

I have a question about homeschooling though: How do parents teach their homeschool kids subjects such as Calculus or a foriegn language if they have no personal knowledge of the subject? It would seem that student teaching at the secondary level could become a major challenge.

[Ms.Relaxationstation]

Midtowner....... You posed a very good question. As homeschooling has evolved over the years, there is a huge population of people who have decided for one reason or another to take on the challenge of homeschooling their children.

There have been times where I had felt inadequate at first not having a degree in allegra or geometry and having to teach it. (Although my kids are younger I have taught a Junior and Senior in highschool) The text books I used (ABEKA curriculum) are VERY explanatory in teaching step-by-step methods. This is unlike most school text books where one example is shown and then it is up to the teacher to teach the rest. Of course, how many of us had gotten home only to have forgotten how to work the problem and mom and dad didn't have a clue what to do either? Well, in this particular case the parent has also had a "refresher" course and has learned and understands how to solve the problems.

As far as foreign languages go- there are many homeschool associations where many of the parents are "certified teachers"....even having a college education in particular field, and decided that homeschooling was best for their children. There are "chemistry labs", "math labs", " spanish and foreign language classes", " music lessons (which is what I teach), along with many other options. But keeping in mind the difference from public schools, these classes are very small in size where one-on- one attention is given. This is only one option, there are kits that can be bought that can be taught right at home. One of my piano students mother teaches Spanish; it was a simple trade out..piano lessons for Spanish lessons.

I will agree homeschooling is not for everyone, and of course it takes alot of commitment and time by the parent. But, who knows your child better than you? Who wants to make sure your child excels in everything they do? It is the parent who takes interest and sometimes even the challenge to do everything they can to instill the best education possible by teaching it themselves.

I would like to add one more thing which I believe to be the most important for my family. It is the basic LIFE skills that is taught each day at home by being a model for your children. It's how to cook ( one has to learn how to measure out a recipe correctly), how to do laundry ( my 4 yr old knows how to sort clothes ), how to serve and volunteer in the community, how to treat people as they should be treated when the line at Wal-Mart is taking too long. There are some things that can only BE taught at HOME. So whether you make the decision to public school or homeschool your children, know that you as a parent are the ULTIMATE teacher! You alone will have the biggest influence on your children-let's hope it is a good one! ::PEACE::

[Midtowner]

Interesting stuff! I'd have to agree, based on what you said, homeschooling has come a long way over the last several years. If I lived where I live now and had kids, homeschooling or private schools would be my only options -- and I know what private schools cost (expensive!). It sounds like with the bartering of classes, you can get your kids some pretty good skills. Also, the parents having control of who their kids socialize with can be big, HUGE in the early years -- especially the teens.

I can see plenty of positives to it, but also negatives. I can see cases where children are not taught to challenge what they are told. For example, a parent could teach creationism without even really mentioning the possibility of evolution or discussing the merits of either theory. There are some social situations that you will simply not encounter in a homeschool environment that one must learn to deal with in a regular school setting. For example, bullying. In homeschool situations, one might never encounter people that are different from us -- ie. people with Down's Syndrome, Autism, etc. I think many of those things could potentially have a negative overall effect on the final product of the education. However, it could be a wash considering all of the positives.

In the end, I agree that it should be the parents' decision how their kids are going to be raised. They brought the kids into the world, so they have a right to make mistakes. I don't know any perfect parent (save June and Ward Cleaver). I hope your kids 20 years from now are appreciative of what you're doing for them today.

[neo]

mranderson...

[mranderson]

I will let that slide, because you are WAY off base and out of line.

My experience speaks for itself.

[Patrick]

Not sure if you guys knew this (I'm sure relaxionstation does) but homeschoolers have groups that they're part of now that host social activities. So just because you homeschool your child doesn't mean they won't be able to take part in any social activities.
At one time I ws really opposed to homeschooling, but the more I see the decay of moral values within our school systems, the more I tend to wonder if maybe homeschooling isn't such a bad idea after all.

[Midtowner]

I will let that slide, because you are WAY off base and out of line.

My experience speaks for itself.

What experience specifically in the area of homeschooling speaks for itself?

You were clear that you've eaten dinner with a number of politicians. However, on this particular subject, you have shown that you don't have all of your facts straight.

[SoundMind]

I think homeschooling is okay, as long as the children who go complete it end up with a strong, intelligent mind comparable to children who complete public schooling. It might be useful for the Department of Education to carry out comparison studies between students educated through homeschooling and those educated in the public school system. They should look at factors such as IQ, general knowledge, social skills, etc.

[Patrick]

SoundMind, I like your idea of getting the federal government in on some testing. I think such testing might actually help people decide whether homeschooling really works for most people. Then again, I'm sure there are better things for us to spend our money on then more federal research tests.

[Midtowner]

I think homeschooling is okay, as long as the children who go complete it end up with a strong, intelligent mind comparable to children who complete public schooling. It might be useful for the Department of Education to carry out comparison studies between students educated through homeschooling and those educated in the public school system. They should look at factors such as IQ, general knowledge, social skills, etc.

Whoa.. I'd be very suspicious of the Dept. of Education conducting research on homeschooling (it would appear to be a conflict of interest). I'd much rather some private or public university conduct the study. You can't ever trust the results of studies done by groups that have agendas (4 out of 5 dentists like Crest? Oh really?).

IQ is not something that education is generally thought to influence. The current wisdom states that it's mostly genetics and possibly environment and stimulus in early deveopmental years. It might be a good baseline for such a study though -- you'd want to compare children with similar IQ levels and just for the sake of keeping the results clean, I'd also throw out kids with learning disabilities.

The only thing that really needs to be tested is whether or not the kids are learning the basic path skills that they need to know. Home school teachers need to be held just as accountable as classroom teachers when it comes to getting their children taught. I wouldn't be against having testing for this done at some kind of neutral testing sight like a college classroom or hotel conference room monitored by a neutral 3rd party (also, H&R Block offers a nice testing service for various professional associations).

I think your results, like in any situation will be mixed. I have a very strong feeling that, on the whole, homeschooled children taught by competant teachers will score higher on standardized tests than their public school counterparts, but that's just a hunch.