OKC's might have beens...

[warreng88]

I saw an article in the Tulsa World about Tulsa might have beens and it got be thinking about OKC. What are you top 10-ish OKC might have beens? Mine are as follows, in no particular order:

1. Stage Center Towers
2. Bricktown Towers.
3. L2 (Lift apartments, round 2)
4. There was a development that I forget the name of, but it was infill in between Sheridan and Main in BT on the open parking lot.
5. OU Boathouse
6. Cotton Exchange Building in Bricktown
7. Randy Hogan (I think) development on the parking lot in front of the Chevy BT Event Center
8. There was a development sign on the SW/C of Lincoln and I-44 that was supposed to be a multi-use development. I think it was called "The Secret" or something like that...

Can't really think of any others off the top of my head right now...

By the way, the link to the TW story is below:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/photovideo...00b209def.html

[Plutonic Panda]

Tuscana Village. There’s also that mixed use development where the dome building is on NW 36th ST.

If we’re going on something developers could have some but cheaped out which I’m sure there could be so many things, OKC has a special chance to do something cool with the Belle Isle Power Plant. They could have repurposed it and built a lifestyle center around the lake. But I know that isn’t the point of discussion.

To continue on that if all of these things happened and we still had our downtown historic building stock or the PEI Plan was fully built out as envisioned having the city wide monorail that was proposed built, OKC would be such an amazing place. It seems like the city has been unlucky.

That looks like it will change.

To add, OKC could have also gotten the FedEx Hub and American Airlines Maintenance Center. No matter. The fact that all this stuff was evens seriously proposed shows how much potential this city has. I’ve been here visiting and I swear the city changes so much even when I’m gone for 6 months. So much being built. It’s exciting.

Edit: just to expand the discussion a little bit, my suspicions on current proposed developments I think will have this label, I’m skeptical of Glimcher and Town Center(though that one may be waiting for the turnpike to be extended).

[KayneMo]

The Pei Plan having never been executed.

[HangryHippo]

The Pei Plan having never been executed.

This. Goodness. Makes me sad to think about it what could have been.

[bradh]

It was before my time in OKC and Plu reminded me of it, but Belle Isle could have been so much better than it is.

[HangryHippo]

It was before my time in OKC and Plu reminded me of it, but Belle Isle could have been so much better than it is.

Another great example.

[bchris02]

Lower Bricktown is the first thing that comes to mind. Think about how Bricktown and downtown would have developed differently had Randy Hogan built what he originally proposed. Looking at what other cities were building around the same time, he had no excuse for half-arsing it the way he did. A perfect example of what it could have been without having to compare OKC to a much larger market or a different region of the country is Branson Landing.

Aside from that, I would say things that have already been mentioned like Stage Center Tower. For the suburbs, Tuscana and the Glimcher lifestyle development come to mind. It seems like every time a mixed-use lifestyle center gets proposed here, it's either by a shady developer that doesn't follow through or it gets NIMBYed.

[Plutonic Panda]

It's been on OKCTalk that the Leadership Square Towers were supposed to be over 50 stories. I can't remember whether that was confirmed or not.

Oh, and there was supposed to be a 35 story or so tower on the NE area of the I-235/I-44 interchange.

I also believe OKC had a proposal to bring a water port involving massive construction and dredging of some river to connect it the Arkansas river. I can't remember where I read that but I'm sure I did somewhere. Most recently the Formula One racing almost happened here or was pitched by the Cornett but it didn't go anywhere.

We also had a poster here who drew this concept up as something that the Boulevard could have been: https://andrewkstewart.wordpress.com...market-circle/

[Urbanized]

warreng88, the proposing developer for the lot east of the ballpark was Bob Funk Senior.

Regarding Bricktown Towers, I maintained pretty much from the beginning that it was never real in any way (got roasted on here for saying so, too). It’s unfortunate that it took everyone for such a ride.

[rezman]

I have to echo that the Pei plan had never been implemented. Rather carefully selected bits and pieces selected for redevelopment over time instead of the scorched earth approach that was taken. Some 40-50 years later, I would love to see all the gems that could have been saved. Had the Pei plan completely come to fruition, by now it would be showing it’s age, crumbling, and ripe for redevelopment.

As for lower Bricktown, who’s to say that it can’t be redeveloped into something better?

[catch22]

One that should not be overlooked is OKC's failed bid for the United Airlines maintenance base which was lost to Indianapolis. MAPS as we know it may never have happened if United accepted our bid, as they essentially told local leadership that local quality of life was a major factor in where they wanted to hire.

Had we won we may have mintenaed the same path of slow decay, and worse lose the facility after all after 9/11.

[Urbanized]

Yep. Indy eventually lost the facility anyway...we dodged a bullet, and the hard look we had to take in the mirror after losing out ended up being a game-changer for us. Win-win.

[bchris02]

One that should not be overlooked is OKC's failed bid for the United Airlines maintenance base which was lost to Indianapolis. MAPS as we know it may never have happened if United accepted our bid, as they essentially told local leadership that local quality of life was a major factor in where they wanted to hire.

Had we won we may have mintenaed the same path of slow decay, and worse lose the facility after all after 9/11.

That is an interesting question and topic of speculation. It's hard to imagine nothing like MAPS happening in OKC even if the city would have been successful at alluring the United Airlines maintenance base, unless the city would have possibly went the way of Detroit. It's hard to think of another city that had a more disastrous urban renewal or a more dilapidated downtown going into the early 1990s. That wasn't a good time for urban areas anywhere in the country but OKC was among the worst of the worst. However, even Detroit has an up and coming downtown in 2017. Most of their first and second ring might as well be a warzone but their downtown is solid. Given the fact today almost every city in the country is revitalizing their downtown it's hard to imagine OKC would have had nothing happening.

[catch22]

That is an interesting question and topic of speculation. It's hard to imagine nothing like MAPS happening in OKC even if the city would have been successful at alluring the United Airlines maintenance base, unless the city would have possibly went the way of Detroit. It's hard to think of another city that had a more disastrous urban renewal or a more dilapidated downtown going into the early 1990s. That wasn't a good time for urban areas anywhere in the country but OKC was among the worst of the worst. However, even Detroit has an up and coming downtown in 2017. Most of their first and second ring might as well be a warzone but their downtown is solid. Given the fact today almost every city in the country is revitalizing their downtown it's hard to imagine OKC would have had nothing happening.

Yes. That is why I say MAPS as we know it. Absolutely we would see OKC follow the trend of other cities, but imagine how far behind we would be. We are still behind the times in some regards when it comes to downtown. But Bricktown and the Ballpark were the catalyst to where we are today. So a lot of credit is due to the leadership of generations past in taking action to make us a more dynamic city today.

[mugofbeer]

Here's one we don't hear about much. TG&Y stores were big across the south and based in OKC. They were in the process of changing from a "5 and dime" type of store to a Super-center (like and older version of Wal Mart). When McRory (I think) bought them out and destroyed the chain, it allowed Wal Mart to become what it is today. If TG&Y had been well-managed and not sold out, they were already well on their way to being Wal Mart.

[jompster]

I also believe OKC had a proposal to bring a water port involving massive construction and dredging of some river to connect it the Arkansas river. I can't remember where I read that but I'm sure I did somewhere.

Sounds like the Port of Catoosa.

[Plutonic Panda]

Sounds like the Port of Catoosa.

Yes. They chose Tulsa. I’m guessing it was cheaper.!

[mkjeeves]

Interesting article on Tulsa. On one of those projects, Portofino on the River, they razed a couple of buildings, put up a construction fence, had an art contest for people to make art related to the theme to decorate the fence, and had a grand art opening pre-construction party. I made a piece of art for the fence, delivered it, and went to the party. Art could be picked up a year later if anyone wanted it. I called to check after a year, expecting to go to Tulsa anyway and see a building structure mostly up. I was told the project had been cancelled after uncertainty following 911. Things happen.

[Bellaboo]

Yes. They chose Tulsa. I’m guessing it was cheaper.!

There was speculation that the Deep Fork would be straightened and dredged for an OKC port. The speculation of a proposal was about as far as it got.

[Plutonic Panda]

There was speculation that the Deep Fork would be straightened and dredged for an OKC port. The speculation of a proposal was about as far as it got.

Are you sure there was never a more serious proposal?

[bchris02]

Yes. That is why I say MAPS as we know it. Absolutely we would see OKC follow the trend of other cities, but imagine how far behind we would be. We are still behind the times in some regards when it comes to downtown. But Bricktown and the Ballpark were the catalyst to where we are today. So a lot of credit is due to the leadership of generations past in taking action to make us a more dynamic city today.

I agree completely. I would say the two most important and impactful MAPS projects were the ballpark and the arena. It's hard to imagine OKC today without the Thunder, but if it wasn't for MAPS they wouldn't be here. The canal on the other hand; I question whether or not it was a good investment given the fact it is still so underdeveloped and underutilized and we are fast approaching the 20 year mark since it's opening. It should have been the focus of urban development and activity in Bricktown yet is and has always been an afterthought. I think without the canal, the city would have seen a more dense, compact Bricktown and Lower Bricktown would have never been a thing. Bricktown would have likely developed much more like downtown Fort Worth or Old Town Wichita. I am hoping that going forward, the streetcar will have a similar impact on moving the core forward that the ballpark and the arena did.

[BG918]

There was speculation that the Deep Fork would be straightened and dredged for an OKC port. The speculation of a proposal was about as far as it got.

The Arkansas River navigation system was already extremely expensive and I have no doubt our state leaders would never support such a plan now. But that project was nothing compared to deepening and widening the Deep Fork to OKC since the Arkansas and Verdigris already run wider and deeper.

I do know they originally wanted to build the river port in Tulsa on the west side near the refineries but the Arkansas is about 150 ft higher in Tulsa than the Verdigris in Catoosa. The project was already way over budget and the cost of building new dams/locks and modifying the bridges through Tulsa was too high so the port went to Catoosa with the last Arkansas River port is in Muskogee.

[traxx]

• Disney Mid-America

[rezman]

Another "might have been" that has crossed my mind on occasion is if the new I-40 had not been built on top of the existing east/west rail corridor that we had, and how that could have played into the new development between there and the river, and further south..

[Plutonic Panda]

The Arkansas River navigation system was already extremely expensive and I have no doubt our state leaders would never support such a plan now. But that project was nothing compared to deepening and widening the Deep Fork to OKC since the Arkansas and Verdigris already run wider and deeper.

I do know they originally wanted to build the river port in Tulsa on the west side near the refineries but the Arkansas is about 150 ft higher in Tulsa than the Verdigris in Catoosa. The project was already way over budget and the cost of building new dams/locks and modifying the bridges through Tulsa was too high so the port went to Catoosa with the last Arkansas River port is in Muskogee.

Wasn’t Tulsa slated to get a nuclear power plant as well?

I really wished that would have happened.