US News College Rankings 2016

[BG918]

The 2016 rankings for the First Tier National universities in Oklahoma:

#86 - University of Tulsa (88th in 2015)
#108 - University of Oklahoma (106th in 2015)
#149 - Oklahoma State University (145th in 2015)

I know OU has made it a goal to be a Top 100 university on this ranking but has never cracked it and dropped two spots in the past year. Your thoughts?

EDIT: Thread Title should be 2016

[Pete]

Thanks for posting. I always find these rankings interesting because like it or not, they are the definitive ratings for this sort of thing.

It's amazing about OU because in terms of rankings, they can't make any headway regardless of spending over a billion on capital projects, raising the endowment to over a billion and hiring tons more faculty and paying them way better.

But -- and I say this all the time this about sports programs and even cities -- everyone else is doing the exact same things.

So, while OU is way, way better than when I went there, so is pretty much every other major university.


Not to get on a soap box but this is the same issue with everyone talking about how far OKC has come in the last 20 years or so. Of course it has. So has every other single city in America. I love cities and have been to almost all of them in the U.S. and they all have great urban development, burgeoning art scenes, hipsters, etc.

Would love to see some objective rankings like this for cities because it would bring that issue home in the exact same way, with proper perspective.


And as far as OU and OSU, if they really want to improve their national reps they are going to have to do far more than they have done and are presently doing.

[adaniel]

Personally I consider it a minor miracle the schools have done no less than stay the same rank-wise given the ridiculous cuts that state has implemented on higher education over the years.

I cannot speak for OSU, but I know OU and DBo has made it a priority to focus on the undergrad experience. I think it is the right move since the vast majority of students do not go on to grad school. Unfortunately when it comes to national rankings like these, prestige (and funding/grants) comes from the graduate/doctorate level. Absent a shift in strategy, 100ish may be a high water mark for OU.

[Pete]

I will also say that apart from maybe 15 great -- and mainly private -- American universities, I think OU can hold it's own against everyone else.

For example, I went to Pepperdine (#52) and UCLA (#23) and neither one was significantly 'better' than OU. By far the biggest difference was the composition of the student body since both are so hard to get into. The drive and competitiveness on the part of most students is in a whole other universe, especially at UCLA. I can tell you I was much, much more motivated as a student in California primarily due to that factor, rather than the curriculum.

I will also say I sat in on classes at Stanford (when I was interviewing at MBA schools) and it really was another world, but it is definitely in that small class of absolutely elite universities.

[gopokes88]

It's all about your perspective on life, major, and whether you go to grad school or not.

I don't really care if my degree isn't from an elite amazing university. I wanted a total college experience and I got it at OSU. Plus, I'm self employed so the school on my diploma has nothing to do with whether I'm successful or not. However, if having the best education is important to someone go for it, just wasn't for me. #149 is good enough.

If you want to major in computer engineering a California school is probably a better option then Oklahoma, vice versa with petroleum. That's more based on where are the jobs for your particular major.

And last, plenty of people start at a good school and go to grad school at an elite school. Tim Cook is a good example. Auburn-Duke.

[Pete]

^

All that is true, but it's also true lots of employers only recruit from certain schools.

A degree from a highly regarded school will definitely open some doors not otherwise open to you, although once you step through that door where you went to school rarely matters.


I'll never forget an informational interview I did with the local GM for Microsoft in L.A. I wasn't talking to him specifically for a job, just managed to force myself in front of him in the guise of a course project (the school part was true but it was also true I wanted to work there). This guy was incredibly condescending and said at one point, "We don't even recruit from UCLA!" , with the subtext being "let alone Pepperdine". The whole discourse was incredibly rude but in the end I really appreciated him being a such an a-hole that he couldn't help saying aloud what so many managers and HR people are thinking.

[Pete]

One other point, far easier to get into an elite graduate program if you already have an undergrad degree from a top-flight school.

[AP]

Considering OSU's endowment is less than half of TU and OU, I wouldn't really expect them to rank much higher than they do.

[Pete]

^

And they've raised it considerably.

All this also speaks to the deep hole both OU & OSU started in, mainly due to the total lack of commitment to education on the part of the state of Oklahoma.

It is the one thing that will continue to hold us back and yet if anything, it's getting worse.

[gopokes88]

Considering OSU's endowment is less than half of TU and OU, I wouldn't really expect them to rank much higher than they do.

That is until Boone dies...

[dankrutka]

It's important to understand these rankings are circular and they can be gamed to a degree. Here's one story from Northeastern, but there are many, many more that aren't told. In short, a university can improve quality dramatically without it showing up in these rankings. But, of course, our culture subscribes to a mathematical way of looking at the world and we like to assign numbers to things... And then use those numbers to color our perceptions and decisions. Regardless of what's lost in translation. So it goes...

I work at a mid-tier university and I worked at another one before it. My university will never grace the rankings even if we had the best program in the country. I'm very familiar with programs across the country in my area and they often depend on the motivation of the people in them. I have not found the prestige of university rankings a good indication of a program's quality. For example, I know professors who care less about the quality of their program and more about their own research. While their research may do absolutely nothing for university students at all - and may do nothing beyond publication - that is often the measure that elevates the university in rankings. I'm not saying these ratings mean nothing... they generally just indicate existing perception. There are rarely big surprises in these rankings. Just silly jockying for 10 spots here or there.

[gopokes88]

^

And they've raised it considerably.

All this also speaks to the deep hole both OU & OSU started in, mainly due to the total lack of commitment to education on the part of the state of Oklahoma.

It is the one thing that will continue to hold us back and yet if anything, it's getting worse.

I don't think there's a lack of commitment, you never hear a politician say meh I don't care about schools or teachers and it's not a politically unpopular topic to go after.
The challenge is that it is a difficult topic without any clear cut solutions. You can run 10 different studies and get 10 different answers why the system isn't working right. (Besides more money, oddly every state in the union is always wanting more money for schools)

I blame Mary Fallin mostly. She's ineffective at getting republicans to push her agenda. Sure it's an unruly caucus, but a good leader figures it out and she hasn't.

[dankrutka]

I don't think there's a lack of commitment, you never hear a politician say meh I don't care about schools or teachers and it's not a politically unpopular topic to go after.

Commitments aren't based on what you say, but what you do. And there is absolutely a lack of commitment to education. I have lobbied for education at the capital and been told in no uncertain terms by legislators that public education is wasteful and shouldn't be supported financially.

[MsProudSooner]

Commitments aren't based on what you say, but what you do. And there is absolutely a lack of commitment to education. I have lobbied for education at the capital and been told in no uncertain terms by legislators that public education is wasteful and shouldn't be supported financially.

Until the voters wake up and vote people with that attitude out of office, nothing will change.

[Rover]

Commitments aren't based on what you say, but what you do. And there is absolutely a lack of commitment to education. I have lobbied for education at the capital and been told in no uncertain terms by legislators that public education is wasteful and shouldn't be supported financially.

That is very interesting. Please name the people who said that. If nothing else, they should be outed.

[bombermwc]

I can speak from first-hand experience on the claim that they are paying better. That's definitely NOT the case. In fact, OU is pushing more and more to not have tenure for professors, they're reducing the number of full professors and increasing the number of instructors. Those instructors are often not given enough class hours to qualify for benefits and a lot of the professors are only given visiting privileges so they can't qualify either. The instructor staff often has to work a second job in order to make a living out of teaching. OU has made a conscious choice to NOT invest in their professorships and should be a good reason that they are not going up in any ranking. The instructor staff (many of which hold phd's, and most hold a masters) are treated very poorly by the university.

I don't really feel it's fair to put TU in the same comparison with OU or OSU. It might as well be a private school with the level the tuition is at. When you're able to charge that much (most expensive in the state...even higher than OCU), you can afford to do a WHOLE lot more. You also cut out the vast majority of the population from even being considered for your student population.

[sooner88]

I can speak from first-hand experience on the claim that they are paying better. That's definitely NOT the case. In fact, OU is pushing more and more to not have tenure for professors, they're reducing the number of full professors and increasing the number of instructors. Those instructors are often not given enough class hours to qualify for benefits and a lot of the professors are only given visiting privileges so they can't qualify either. The instructor staff often has to work a second job in order to make a living out of teaching. OU has made a conscious choice to NOT invest in their professorships and should be a good reason that they are not going up in any ranking. The instructor staff (many of which hold phd's, and most hold a masters) are treated very poorly by the university.

I don't really feel it's fair to put TU in the same comparison with OU or OSU. It might as well be a private school with the level the tuition is at. When you're able to charge that much (most expensive in the state...even higher than OCU), you can afford to do a WHOLE lot more. You also cut out the vast majority of the population from even being considered for your student population.

TU is a private university FYI

[catcherinthewry]

TU is a private university FYI

Yes, kinda makes me leery of the rest of that poster's comments if he doesn't know that.

[OKCretro]

^

And they've raised it considerably.

All this also speaks to the deep hole both OU & OSU started in, mainly due to the total lack of commitment to education on the part of the state of Oklahoma.

It is the one thing that will continue to hold us back and yet if anything, it's getting worse.

Agree, I don't think that OSU should some of its funds provided by the state to support their sports program. OU hasn't been doing this for years, and OSU should follow suit

[OkieHornet]

UCO did pretty well in their category:

UCO News: UCO Remains Top Public Regional University in Oklahoma on US News and World Report's 'Best Colleges'

The University of Central Oklahoma retains its place among the top colleges and universities in the nation, once again ranking as the top public regional university in the state and for the first time as the top public regional university for veterans on the just-released 2016 Best Colleges list from U.S. News & World Report.

Central ranked No. 32 in the list of Tier One institutions in the “Top Public Schools: Regional Universities - West” category, No. 52 in the “Best Colleges for Veterans: Regional Universities - West” category, and No. 81 in the overall list of regional universities in the west.

[dankrutka]

That is very interesting. Please name the people who said that. If nothing else, they should be outed.

I could dig the guy's name up as there were a number of fellow teachers with me. He literally used his kid's SAT score as justification for defunding public education entirely. I also know a lot of people in the state department and I will just say that, for example, the head of the education committee could not explain one thing about the actual Common Core standards in the middle of the public controversy about it. Like the person when asked point blank, have you read the standards? replied no. Legislators are such an incredible burden to educators.

[gopokes88]

Agree, I don't think that OSU should some of its funds provided by the state to support their sports program. OU hasn't been doing this for years, and OSU should follow suit

You're gonna have to cite that. Everything I've read is that athletic departments are self sufficient except at non bcs schools.

[HangryHippo]

You're gonna have to cite that. Everything I've read is that athletic departments are self sufficient except at non bcs schools.

Unfortunately, you'd be wrong. Oklahoma State took a 6.38% subsidy totaling $7,521,475 for their athletic programs in 2014 according to data provided by the schools themselves to the NCAA. There were only seven institutions that received no athletic subsidies for the 2013-2014 season.

[jerrywall]

Legislators are such an incredible burden to educators.

Politics and Education don't mix. Unfortunately, there's no way to separate the two.

[MikeLucky]

NCAA study finds all but 20 FBS schools lose money on athletics | AL.com

NCAA | Finances | USA TODAY Sports

You can go through the data in the two links... only 20 of all NCAA institution's athletic departments make any sort of profit. And, of those 20, only 7 do it without any subsidies.

OU is one of those 7 which places them in very elite company in this regard. And, to take it a step further, OU actually gives the university money in the form of an academic enhancement fee paid by football season ticket holders. I don't know how many of the other 7 schools do this, but it could be that OU is the only school athletic department in the country that not only self supports, but also gives back to the university.