Study shows sharp decline in Christians as a percentage of population in U.S.

[Pete]

Interesting... Pretty big shift in just seven years:



America?s Changing Religious Landscape | Pew Research Center

the percentage of adults (ages 18 and older) who describe themselves as Christians has dropped by nearly eight percentage points in just seven years, from 78.4% in an equally massive Pew Research survey in 2007 to 70.6% in 2014. Over the same period, the percentage of Americans who are religiously unaffiliated – describing themselves as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular” – has jumped more than six points, from 16.1% to 22.8%.

[Pete]

This breaks it down by generation and shows Millenials are only about 56-57% Christian, as opposed to Baby Boomers (my gen) that runs at 78%:

[okatty]

Very interesting data all the way around. "other faiths" and "unaffiliated" double and more than triple respectively over the age groups.

[hoya]

It will be interesting to see whether those numbers change as Millennials get older. Is this a temporary change as people "find themselves" or more permanent? As they settle down and have children will they identify more with the faiths they were raised with? Dunno.

[bchris02]

This is a complicated situation but I think it comes down to a few things. I don't think all of it can be blamed on education or conversions to atheism.

Evangelical protestantism has basically become one and the same with the Republican Party. Most people under 35 don't share the same values as the GOP does and aren't interested in joining a culture war. Most of them have family members or friends who are gay and don't have patience with an institution that seems to have made demonizing gay people their top priority. The evangelical narrative is neither American nor Christian. Jesus didn't come to this earth to take over human governmental institutions to enforce religious piety, nor did he command his followers do so. Most evangelicals would also be shocked to learn that the Founding Fathers weren't the good KJV Baptists they've been led to believe that they were. The no compromise rejection of science also makes that brand of faith a difficult sell in the age of the Internet. Many evangelical churches are trying to make it "cool" with light shows and rock bands but people are seeing right through that.

Mainline Protestant churches on the other hand focus more on social justice issues and less on culture war politics. They give the believer freedom to find harmony between science and the Bible. This is all good, but those denominations are also in decline. Why is that? The only thing I can think of is that contrasted to evangelicals who take a hard, no-compromise stance on doctrinal truths, politics, and the literal interpretation of the Bible, mainline Protestants take a much more relative approach giving the believer freedom on those things. Without any absolutes, church becomes about tradition with little substance. My guess is that many have realized they don't need church to support social justice causes and to do good for people so many don't go. There are many other ways for young people to find community these days other than religious organizations. Young people are also less interested in keeping with past traditions.

Thoughts on this?

[AP]

One of the few things I think we actually agree on.

[hoya]

^^^

I think you're on target with a lot of those points.

Some mainline Protestant churches have (as I see it) taken a fairly wishy-washy view of the Bible. I was on a dating website for a while, and was very surprised at the number of people who selected "spiritual, but not religious", but I find out later had been raised in Christian households. The people I talked to didn't have a lot of faith in their own beliefs. "Well, you know, people think different things about that..." There's such a thing as being so broadly accommodating of other ideas that you lose your identity.

[Pete]

It will be interesting to see whether those numbers change as Millennials get older. Is this a temporary change as people "find themselves" or more permanent? As they settle down and have children will they identify more with the faiths they were raised with? Dunno.

I would think more the opposite... That most people are born into religious beliefs through their family then become more independent thinking as they age.

I think that's true for every generation.

[onthestrip]

This is a complicated situation but I think it comes down to a few things. I don't think all of it can be blamed on education or conversions to atheism.

Evangelical protestantism has basically become one and the same with the Republican Party. Most people under 35 don't share the same values as the GOP does and aren't interested in joining a culture war. Most of them have family members or friends who are gay and don't have patience with an institution that seems to have made demonizing gay people their top priority. The evangelical narrative is neither American nor Christian. Jesus didn't come to this earth to take over human governmental institutions to enforce religious piety, nor did he command his followers do so. Most evangelicals would also be shocked to learn that the Founding Fathers weren't the good KJV Baptists they've been led to believe that they were. The no compromise rejection of science also makes that brand of faith a difficult sell in the age of the Internet. Many evangelical churches are trying to make it "cool" with light shows and rock bands but people are seeing right through that.

Mainline Protestant churches on the other hand focus more on social justice issues and less on culture war politics. They give the believer freedom to find harmony between science and the Bible. This is all good, but those denominations are also in decline. Why is that? The only thing I can think of is that contrasted to evangelicals who take a hard, no-compromise stance on doctrinal truths, politics, and the literal interpretation of the Bible, mainline Protestants take a much more relative approach giving the believer freedom on those things. Without any absolutes, church becomes about tradition with little substance. My guess is that many have realized they don't need church to support social justice causes and to do good for people so many don't go. There are many other ways for young people to find community these days other than religious organizations. Young people are also less interested in keeping with past traditions.

Thoughts on this?

The bolded parts are the two big reasons, IMO, of the decline. People, young ones especially, dont want to be a part of a group that demonizes those that are different than them (ie, LGBT folks). They also probably look at religion as just "old fashion." And the second reason I bolded, religions can no longer keep secret the true answers to lifes big questions. The internet has been a powerful force in dispelling so many antiquated religious beliefs.

One other possible reason is that people's time is very valuable these days, and many people simply dont want to spend it going to church throughout the week.

[Pete]

Here is another reason: Younger people tend to live farther away from their parents than previous generations and therefore less likely to hold on to their religious beliefs.

For example, most my friends out here in Cali came from other areas of the country, like me. And like me they were raised with at least some religion in the household.

Yet, almost no one I know attends church. And I know many of them hear about if from their parents, but in the end that obviously doesn't change their behavior.

[elitespy]

Here is another reason: Younger people tend to live farther away from their parents than previous generations and therefore less likely to hold on to their religious beliefs.

For example, most my friends out here in Cali came from other areas of the country, like me. And like me they were raised with at least some religion in the household.

Yet, almost no one I know attends church. And I know many of them hear about if from their parents, but in the end that obviously doesn't change their behavior.

This is definitely true in my case, my mom lives in Texas and I moved up here for school. My mom is a go to church Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night type of person. I know if I lived down near her I would probably go some of those days because I mean she's my mom. Up here though I don't go at all, yeah she asks if I go and I tell her I may go this next weekend... It never happens though.

[MsProudSooner]

I have read that some younger people who grew up in evangelical churches are leaving them because they are so political.

Some mainline churches struggle to reconcile their older members, who want things to be like they were 50 years ago, with their younger members who want more modern music, etc.

I grew up in a small town mainline church where the preacher knew your parents and grandparents and your friend David's father played Santa Claus at the Christmas Party every year. It was like an extended family. The mega churches with thousands of members have never appealed to me. Nor do churches that preach fire and brimstone or churches that don't welcome absolutely everyone. I would never attend a church where the preacher tried to tell me how to vote.

Both of my daughters attend a 'mainline' church in McKinney, Texas. It's one of those that Jerry Fallwell accused of not being Christian enough. The preacher grew up Baptist and by the time he went to college he had decided that his only option was to be an athiest because he believed in evolution. His future wife persuaded him to try her church and he ended up at Princeton Seminary after he got his BA, Contrary to some churches, this church is growing.

It's my uneducated opinion that people who scream the loudest about what good Christians they are and how religious they are turn more people away from religion than they attract.

[Pete]

Organized religion, like most other aspects of the U.S. culture, seems to be increasingly polarized.

At one end, you have the highly politicized and organized evangelicals who become more galvanized as time passes, claiming persecution. Which in turn, makes them appear even more zealous to those not so prone to extremes.

At the other end, you see people shunning religion altogether due to perceived intolerance. Then, increasingly, the two sides snipe at each other with little common ground.

And this whole dynamic seems to be rapidly gaining momemtum. I suspect the next presidential election will bring all this to a boil, although the GOP may have to back off a bit due to the shrinking percentage of evangelicals which means while their support is important, alone it's not enough to carry a candidate.

[OkiePoke]

I wouldn't discount the increasing of non religious people either. I know quite a few.

[bchris02]

Some mainline churches struggle to reconcile their older members, who want things to be like they were 50 years ago, with their younger members who want more modern music, etc.

I am not sure adhering to old traditions are the problem for a lot of mainline churches. In fact, a lot of younger people see through the smoke and mirrors that is the light shows and modern music that a lot of evangelical churches have shifted to attempting to attract them. I went to St. Luke's UMC in Midtown for a while and more younger people there actually went to the liturgical service rather than the contemporary one.

At one end, you have the highly politicized and organized evangelicals who become more galvanized as time passes, claiming persecution. Which in turn, makes them appear even more zealous to those not so prone to extremes.

The ironic thing is, American evangelicals scream persecution whenever they aren't in power. In African countries right now Christians are dying for their faith, but American evangelicals cry persecution whenever a court says they can't use the power of a government office to proselytize. I sometimes wonder what Christians in other countries who really have to endure persecution think of American evangelicals.

[Pete]

I went to St. Luke's UMC in Midtown for a while and more younger people there actually went to the liturgical service rather than the contemporary one.

I really like St. Luke's.

Before I moved away, I went one Sunday with my then girlfriend. We were both in our mid-20's at the time.

I really enjoyed the service and people were very friendly, but almost a little too eager in trying to recruit us.

A couple of days later, a man and wife showed up at my house with a pie. It was very nice but the overwhelming feeling was how desperate they were for new members, especially young ones. It made me sad for them but also totally uncomfortable. All this after one visit?

We may have gone back once but we waited a fair bit of time before doing so.

But I remember really liking the minister and the message.

[MsProudSooner]

Are people 'increasingly non-religious' or were they just reluctant to speak their mind in the past?

[gopokes88]

I expect as millienials get older their numbers increase. We're pretty young and haven't to think long and hard about their own mortality as say someone who is 65 and survived cancer. We're at that im invincible the world at my fingertips stage.

I think science has some huge problems in the origin story that the church has never consistency hit back against. Not the science itself but the the conclusions it draws.

For example if science is correct then here's your life.
You are going to die. Fade to black into nothingness. Whatever you lived for is meaningless because you are dead. 115 years from now there's a good chance an entirely different set of humans will be on this earth. He who dies with the most gold still dies. Your name will run out. It will be forgetton to the pages of history. Sure your kids will remember you, their kids, and maybe even their kids. But, eventually the line runs too long and you are forgotten. There is no deeper meaning to life. We're only here because of a one in a trillion chance everything collided and we just came about. Random. Sure you can say I'm doing im trying to save the planet, but deep down the depths of your heart you know it's basically like standing on a stool and saying I'm tall.
It's a hopeless and depressed existence that people will try to find meaning in (insert whatever you want here) only to find they continue to thirst more and more.

Or

You were beautifully and wonderfully made. However, you are sinful at your core and you need a savior. The Godman Jesus was perfect for you and through him you can have eternal life in heaven. There's hope in that. (That's the Christian perspective, obviously there's other religions. None I could comment on correctly however)

When millienials (and other age groups as they age) are confronted with things like that I think you'll see them gravitate more towards religion over time. Particularity Christianity because of the prevalence it has had in our nation.

[adaniel]

Are people 'increasingly non-religious' or were they just reluctant to speak their mind in the past?

I think you can read it as people are increasingly unaffiliated with any sort of organized religion. How that breaks down person by person would probably be a bit hard to nail down. Atheism is increasing, but I would consider them the minority of the "unaffiliated" population. To echo another poster, I know a ton of "spiritual but not religious" types.

I'll say this: When I lived in OKC, I attended a wonderful church. It was young, the message was realistic but positive, and a big one for me, culturally integrated. I never felt judged or looked down upon. Now that I am in Dallas I have really struggled to find a new church with a similar feel. Increasingly, I find myself going less and less. If I were to take this survey, I would probably have marked "unaffiliated" as well.

As a generation, millenials are not as trusting towards established institutions. We question businesses, banks, the government, and increasingly, the police. We are politically unaffiliated. We are spurning home ownership and have some of the lowest marriage rates in history. So the decline in church attendance is just a continuation of this.

More than anything, the church's decision to go all in on divisive political and social issues has been a big repellent for young people. During the height of the gay marriage ban frenzy in the mid 2000's , the evangelical right was racking up big electoral wins, but even then I started noticing a shift in some of my peers attitudes. It was pretty much an exasperated "screw it I'm done" resignation. If this was the case in the Bible Belt, I can only imagine what it was like in other parts of the nation. Now that attitudes have shifted dramatically for LGBT rights, among other things, the church is probably the biggest loser in all of this.

[OkiePoke]

I expect as millienials get older their numbers increase. We're pretty young and haven't to think long and hard about their own mortality as say someone who is 65 and survived cancer. We're at that im invincible the world at my fingertips stage.

I think science has some huge problems in the origin story that the church has never consistency hit back against. Not the science itself but the the conclusions it draws.

For example if science is correct then here's your life.
You are going to die. Fade to black into nothingness. Whatever you lived for is meaningless because you are dead. 115 years from now there's a good chance an entirely different set of humans will be on this earth. He who dies with the most gold still dies. Your name will run out. It will be forgetton to the pages of history. Sure your kids will remember you, their kids, and maybe even their kids. But, eventually the line runs too long and you are forgotten. There is no deeper meaning to life. We're only here because of a one in a trillion chance everything collided and we just came about. Random. Sure you can say I'm doing im trying to save the planet, but deep down the depths of your heart you know it's basically like standing on a stool and saying I'm tall.
It's a hopeless and depressed existence that people will try to find meaning in (insert whatever you want here) only to find they continue to thirst more and more.

Or

You were beautifully and wonderfully made. However, you are sinful at your core and you need a savior. The Godman Jesus was perfect for you and through him you can have eternal life in heaven. There's hope in that. (That's the Christian perspective, obviously there's other religions. None I could comment on correctly however)

When millienials (and other age groups as they age) are confronted with things like that I think you'll see them gravitate more towards religion over time. Particularity Christianity because of the prevalence it has had in our nation.

Just curious, what is the huge problem with the first one?

[kelroy55]

Organized religion, like most other aspects of the U.S. culture, seems to be increasingly polarized.

At one end, you have the highly politicized and organized evangelicals who become more galvanized as time passes, claiming persecution. Which in turn, makes them appear even more zealous to those not so prone to extremes.

At the other end, you see people shunning religion altogether due to perceived intolerance. Then, increasingly, the two sides snipe at each other with little common ground.

And this whole dynamic seems to be rapidly gaining momemtum. I suspect the next presidential election will bring all this to a boil, although the GOP may have to back off a bit due to the shrinking percentage of evangelicals which means while their support is important, alone it's not enough to carry a candidate.

I think a lot of that intolerance is real and not perceived.

[BoulderSooner]

Lots of this thread make the "intolerance" of bible believing Christians very clear.


And per the last decade. The general public and media should look up the actual meaning of tolerance

As you see from the studies bible believing Christians numbers are down less than 2 percent statistically pretty much flat

Some how to some people religion should change over time? I would argue that makes that faith less valid from the start. If the bible is true it is true if is not it is not. That part of it is pretty simple. It makes little sense to take some of it and reject other parts.

[bchris02]

I think a lot of that intolerance is real and not perceived.

Yes and no. Some people are shunning religion altogether because of the very real intolerance displayed by the right wing Christian denominations, not considering that many Christians don't share those beliefs.

[bradh]

I was raised Lutheran in Texas in a church my mom's parents helped establish. It's pretty conservative, but depends on the church really. We attend a great church here, with a good mix of young and old (although not very culturally diverse. Not on purpose, just don't think Lutheran is that popular). We never hear any divisive message, nor does our church get political (unless you call a pro-life stance political). I spoke with my mom in depth about the church's stance on LGBT issues recently, and even herself a Sunday/Wednesday/Saturday type of church goer, agreed that it's time the church take a step back and really look at that issue from other sides. Just like I don't like to be judged by smart asses who think I'm some kind of bumbling idiot for being Christian, if it's not your thing then it's not your thing, I'll still be your friend. The polarity of religion in society and how it turns people on both sides into hateful people is really a shame. I certainly don't condone it on my side of the aisle.

[hoya]

Lots of this thread make the "intolerance" of bible believing Christians very clear.


And per the last decade. The general public and media should look up the actual meaning of tolerance

As you see from the studies bible believing Christians numbers are down less than 2 percent statistically pretty much flat

Some how to some people religion should change over time? I would argue that makes that faith less valid from the start. If the bible is true it is true if is not it is not. That part of it is pretty simple. It makes little sense to take some of it and reject other parts.

Religion does change over time. Once upon a time the official position of the church was that the Earth was the center of the universe. They based that on some rather strained interpretations of the Bible.

There's a big problem with the politicization of the church over the last few decades, as well as the church "doubling down" on social and scientific issues. You can energize the faithful by saying that every word of the Bible is literally true. But you drive away people who aren't fundamentalists when you are fighting against evolution despite all scientific evidence to the contrary. Instead of saying "hey it looks like this part here is metaphor", they're building creationist museums in Kentucky.

Would you believe in a religion that said the Earth was the center of the universe, when we've got pictures from space that prove that isn't true? Not unless you were crazy. The churches haven't adapted their interpretations of Genesis to account for new discoveries.