How Sad Is This

[ljbab728]

Uninsured Norman man dies because he feared cost of calling 911, neighbor says | News OK

Allen died alone in his apartment, potentially from a heart attack or other heart troubles. He was uninsured and afraid to call 911, fearful of how much it would cost to go to the hospital.

A few days before his death, Allen had complained of having trouble breathing and a pain in his left arm.

“Why didn’t you call 911?” Lori asked him.

“I don’t have insurance,” he told her.

She told him that didn’t matter, that he could go get help.

“If I die, I die,” he told her.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't l feel bad for him. He chose not to get help when he could've.

[Dennis Heaton]

Unfortunately, this happens more often than I care to recall. I am referring to folks that die alone in an apartment. A friend of mine passed away a couple years ago, of a heart attack, while taking a bath. He was found in his bathtub a few days later when neighbors began complaining about the odor. This is not about ObamaCare or Insurance. It is my understanding that neither EMSA or a Hospital can refuse to treat a patient needing emergency care. People need to be better informed about their options.

[Just the facts]

Sadly, sometimes people just give up by refusing to seek medical aid or staying in a house when natural disasters are eminent. I guess it is some kind of natural suicide. My mom has a 'do not resuscitate' order which to me is the same thing. She already made a decision to die without a fight when that time comes.

[BBatesokc]

Without knowing anything about Allen its hard to know what the real story here really is. Is the story that health care is soooo expensive people are willing to die than face the bills or is it that too many people are still uneducated when it comes to health care options?

[PennyQuilts]

Not to be snarky, but most men I know would seriously rather risk dying than go to the doctor if there is any doubt as to the need. And that includes the guys with insurance. And I've also known a number of people (married to one, actually) who has the attitude of if I die, I die. For that matter, I once had some similar symptoms and there was no way I was calling 911. I eventually went to a doc in the box and it was a pulled muscle. I was lucky that is all it was. But I agree it was sad.

ETA - I went back and reread the article.

A few days before his death, Allen had complained of having trouble breathing and a pain in his left arm.

“Why didn’t you call 911?” Lori asked him.

“I don’t have insurance,” he told her.

She told him that didn’t matter, that he could go get help.

“If I die, I die,” he told her.

The last phone call Allen made was to Lori, probably to tell her he didn’t feel well, she said.

“I feel so responsible because I would have called 911,” she said. “People die every day because they think (hospitals) are going to ask for ID or something. They don’t – people are wonderful at hospitals.”

Lori knows from personal experience, having called 911 about a year ago when her asthma was acting up. She hadn’t been taking medication, unable to afford the $325 to pay for Advair.

“They picked me up and then revived me, and I was in the ER, and then I went to the ICU, and then they didn't even come in and talk to me and ask me about insurance for three days,” she said. “People in hospital want to help -- they really do.”

Oklahoma County is believed to have more community-based and faith-based health care safety net providers per square mile than any other major metropolitan county or region in the U.S.

Upon reflection, I just want to point out that this guy was a therapist - and that means he was educated and surely knew about obtaining health care. Moreover, his neighbor specifically reminded him that he could get care even without insurance. She gave her own account of how she was treated without insurance. Finally, the article points out the community and faith based health care safety nets available in Oklahoma that, as a therapist, I suspect he was in a pretty good position to be aware of.

[Dennis Heaton]

Not to disrespect "his neighbor," but I can't help but wonder if she considered calling 911? She is quoted as saying, "I feel so responsible because I would have called 911." Sometimes it is difficult to do the right thing in a given situation. I am sure she sincerely feels a bit of grief about all this. Hopefully this article has opened a few eyes about a real experience. At least Allen had a neighbor that cared.

[Jim Kyle]

I guess it is some kind of natural suicide. My mom has a 'do not resuscitate' order which to me is the same thing. She already made a decision to die without a fight when that time comes.

I don't consider it "natural suicide" but rather simple acceptance of the fact that life itself is a terminal condition.

Both my wife and myself join your mother in possession of DNR instructions in our living wills; we did so as soon as such documents became binding in this state. We've both seen far too many cases of medical institutions keeping lungs breathing and hearts beating by heroic means, long after the individual involved has become vegetative and flatline brain waves give no hope of recovery. Death has already happened; the body just isn't allowed to accept it.

Those documents include the specific limitation to be effective only in "no hope" situations. We haven't hesitated to allow emergency surgical procedures when needed. Both of us have entered hospitals via the ER, having surgeries before our release. But we definitely do not want to put those close to us in the horrible position we've both experienced, of participating in that decision to pull the plug. That's why we have DNRs: to have that decision already in place, if it's ever needed.

[PennyQuilts]

IMO, Jim, that's an act of kindness and love. I would hate to have to make that decision for a loved one and beyond that, we all know that relatives have a tendency to second guess a primary care giver. Many end up feeling guilty enough only to have others second guess their painful decision. A DNR make's it about the deceased decision and honoring their wishes.

[kevinpate]

"If I die, I die," he told her.

There is likely far more meaning underlying this sentence than simply acknowledging an absence of health care insurance.
For some, death is not a fearsome end to their existence. Perhaps he was one such person. I don't know the answer.
Perhaps he was far more aware of his circumstances and health than friends, family, neighbors and strangers on the internet.

[Dennis Heaton]

I don't consider it "natural suicide" but rather simple acceptance of the fact that life itself is a terminal condition.

Both my wife and myself join your mother in possession of DNR instructions in our living wills; we did so as soon as such documents became binding in this state. We've both seen far too many cases of medical institutions keeping lungs breathing and hearts beating by heroic means, long after the individual involved has become vegetative and flatline brain waves give no hope of recovery. Death has already happened; the body just isn't allowed to accept it.

Those documents include the specific limitation to be effective only in "no hope" situations. We haven't hesitated to allow emergency surgical procedures when needed. Both of us have entered hospitals via the ER, having surgeries before our release. But we definitely do not want to put those close to us in the horrible position we've both experienced, of participating in that decision to pull the plug. That's why we have DNRs: to have that decision already in place, if it's ever needed.

Jim...Thank YOU sooooo much for sharing that. May I share this on my FB Page?

[Jim Kyle]

Definitely! And you have my deepest sympathy in your present situation, which was foremost in my mind as I wrote those words.