Funding Approved for Education System - Taken from ODOT

[C_M_25]

Senate Panel OKs Bill For Oklahoma Education Funding - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

Did you guys see this? I'm a little conflicted on this one. Our schools are some of the worst in the country but so are our roads. We need to fund both, but taking from one and giving to the other doesn't seem like the correct way to go about this.

[HangryHippo]

Senate Panel OKs Bill For Oklahoma Education Funding - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

Did you guys see this? I'm a little conflicted on this one. Our schools are some of the worst in the country but so are our roads. We need to fund both, but taking from one and giving to the other doesn't seem like the correct way to go about this.

Perhaps it wouldn't AS dire a situation if we quit passing these tax reductions all the time. It's clear we can't afford what we want/need to do, and we need to start paying for the things we want to have. Better schools - pay up! Better roads - pay up! Of course, that doesn't even take into consideration better ways of doing things which would also offer some savings. For example, fewer highways and boulevards and more rail transit. Better designed neighborhoods and cities might mean more money available for education. It's all connected.

[Pete]

It's also a weird time for a tax cut.

The local economy is thriving and we are having great success luring people and companies from out-of-state.

The last thing we need to be doing at this point is cutting into education or infrastructure.

[venture]

Echo Pete's point. If we were struggling to grow and attract businesses, then I could see a tax cut needed to some extent. However, we are doing well growing and attracting more but we can't even pay our bills right now.

[Plutonic Panda]

So that won't exactly speed up getting our interchanges replaced, huh? Hey, maybe this will be blessing in disguise; if ODOT has some serious budget problems, maybe they'll jump on the bandwagon to being able take out loans for large projects to get it all done at once as opposed to doing the phase approach. Isn't the vote on the state constitution convention on April 28th? Maybe some good might come out of this.

[thebigtamale]

Every state legislator (well, all but about 3-4) will tell you that transportation and education are two core functions of government. Shameful to pit two of the state's top priorities against each other while passing tax cuts at the same time.

[Dubya61]

Echo Pete's point. If we were struggling to grow and attract businesses, then I could see a tax cut needed to some extent. However, we are doing well growing and attracting more but we can't even pay our bills right now.

I'm sorry for taking this down the politics route, but maybe their hoping it'll be declared unconstitutional like a lot of their hot-button legislation. That way, they can "please" their constituency, shrug their shoulders and say, "We tried, but those damned activist judges ... Oh, well!"

[C_M_25]

I grew up in this state, and I really don't want to leave. However, Oklahoma continually ranks at the bottom of the list in schools and roads. Both are incredibly important to me. The fact that we can't seem to pull our heads out of our butts, I would consider moving to a new place if things don't improve. There is no easy fix/answer, but we certainly don't help ourselves with tax deductions in a time like this.

One possible solution to make up for the loss of revenue is to make all the main roads around here toll roads. That would certainly get people up in arms, though. We just need to understand that sacrifices will have to be made in order to improve this states standings in these two categories.

[bradh]

When everyone complains about roads and says they suck, what are you saying saying sucks about them? You do realize damn near every mile of I-35 in this state has been redone since 2009, and the same with I-40 (if not completed, it's under work or planned).

[Plutonic Panda]

When everyone complains about roads and says they suck, what are you saying saying sucks about them? You do realize damn near every mile of I-35 in this state has been redone since 2009, and the same with I-40 (if not completed, it's under work or planned).

I'll respond to this a bit later. There are a ton of things wrong with our roads.

[bradh]

I'll respond to this a bit later. There are a ton of things wrong with our roads.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts. I'm guessing it's more than "potholes" which is what most of Joe Public means when they whine about roads.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm interested to hear your thoughts. I'm guessing it's more than "potholes" which is what most of Joe Public means when they whine about roads.

Quite a few of the roads are in horrible condition. Our interchanges are a joke. It takes years and years to finish a highway and when we do, the part that we first started on already has to be fixed because it took so damn long to get the entire stretch built. Just drive around town man, the roads are rough and bumpy. It gets worse everyday. I know there are some great projects going to try and solve this, but it needs to hurry.

Also, I am not trying to compare us to other cities.

[bradh]

No argument here on the interchanges

[Garin]

When everyone complains about roads and says they suck, what are you saying saying sucks about them? You do realize damn near every mile of I-35 in this state has been redone since 2009, and the same with I-40 (if not completed, it's under work or planned).

it sure seems like its been longer than since 2009 , I'd swear its been 20 years

[Garin]

Quite a few of the roads are in horrible condition. Our interchanges are a joke. It takes years and years to finish a highway and when we do, the part that we first started on already has to be fixed because it took so damn long to get the entire stretch built. Just drive around town man, the roads are rough and bumpy. It gets worse everyday. I know there are some great projects going to try and solve this, but it needs to hurry.

Also, I am not trying to compare us to other cities.

The new crosstown is a perfect example of a poorly built highway/and design.

[bombermwc]

How exactly is that Garin? The only problems 40 has are with sections outside of the construction....
* 44/40 interchange needs 3 lanes over 44 to reduce the bottleneck that forms on eastbound traffic in the evening. But as long as 44 is only 3 lanes right there, there isn't much that can be done there. It really needs to be full 4 lanes between 240 and 40.
* 35/235/40 is and always has been just stupid. the 35 traffic really needs to be a segregated lane section so it doesn't mix with 40 so it can flow instead of being funneled into 1 lane of 40 and causing a huge drag of traffic. The interchange at 235 can then serve as a entrance point to 35 South in a fly-over. And keep 235 south as 2 full lanes....keep the 40/35 merge as 2 full lanes as well. There is comparably far less traffic coming from 40 west to 35 south, so it can stay 1 lane and merge into the 235 by means of an exit only lane for 15th.

But for 40 itself, how can you say things aren't good with the new road? Have you seen any traffic on there at all? It's absolutely amazing how much better things flow on the new section. The CITY needs to do some things better on the roads that lead to the highways access points though. The federal guidelines dictated where the exits/on-ramps were going to be, so don't go blame the state on that one. There are fewer than there used to be because that's what they had to do...which is actually good because now you don't have on/off ramps on the same lane in the same space making for horrible merging. The road is smooth, you've got 5 lanes if you don't like the one you're in, the road isn't falling out from underneath you anymore, it is safer now that there are actual shoulders and break-down areas instead of it clogging up the entire road if you get stuck on the inside lane. I just don't see where the complaints are. Obviously you have some, or you wouldn't have said it, but I'd like to know what they are. I'm not going to harass you to convince you otherwise, I'm just curious.

[TheTravellers]

When everyone complains about roads and says they suck, what are you saying saying sucks about them? You do realize damn near every mile of I-35 in this state has been redone since 2009, and the same with I-40 (if not completed, it's under work or planned).

Quite a bit of the surface streets (long stretches of Portland, 23rd, 10th, May, Penn, Western, Reno, et al) are just pathetic in terms of potholes, patched potholes, patched patches, asphalt all scrunched up and bumpy, lanes not marked, traffic lights out (just the red or just the green, not the entire light), parts missing on traffic lights, etc.

Traffic signal timing is horrible on quite a few streets.

A lot of bridges are structurally unsound.

Some interchanges are badly designed and unsafe.

Taking forever to do a project (due to the city's (or ODOT's, can't remember which, might be both) own limitation of not borrowing to pay for construction, which *can* be admirable, but not when interest rates are this low and it will take *10* damn years to finish the I-44/235 interchange, which has been poorly designed and in bad physical shape for over *20* years already).

Yes, some roads are good in the metro, but there are a *huge* amount that are not.

[Dubya61]

Quite a bit of the surface streets (long stretches of Portland, 23rd, 10th, May, Penn, Western, Reno, et al) are just pathetic in terms of potholes, patched potholes, patched patches, asphalt all scrunched up and bumpy, lanes not marked, traffic lights out (just the red or just the green, not the entire light), parts missing on traffic lights, etc.

Traffic signal timing is horrible on quite a few streets.

...

Yes, some roads are good in the metro, but there are a *huge* amount that are not.

The bulk of this is not ODOT money.

[bradh]

I can tell you that ODOT's focus in the near long term future is fixing deficient bridges state wide, at least that's the gist I got from a speech I heard last summer regarding their future plans.

[TheTravellers]

The bulk of this is not ODOT money.

Maybe not the bulk of it, but some is - ODOT shares responsibility for a lot of roads in OKC.

[HangryHippo]

Quite a bit of the surface streets (long stretches of Portland, 23rd, 10th, May, Penn, Western, Reno, et al) are just pathetic in terms of potholes, patched potholes, patched patches, asphalt all scrunched up and bumpy, lanes not marked, traffic lights out (just the red or just the green, not the entire light), parts missing on traffic lights, etc.

Traffic signal timing is horrible on quite a few streets.

A lot of bridges are structurally unsound.

Some interchanges are badly designed and unsafe.

Taking forever to do a project (due to the city's (or ODOT's, can't remember which, might be both) own limitation of not borrowing to pay for construction, which *can* be admirable, but not when interest rates are this low and it will take *10* damn years to finish the I-44/235 interchange, which has been poorly designed and in bad physical shape for over *20* years already).

Yes, some roads are good in the metro, but there are a *huge* amount that are not.

My problems with our roads are many:

1) The city/county/state continually spends money patching patches of previously patched patches. These are ruining my suspension.
2) The expansion joints at the beginning and end of our bridges are vicious. These are also ruining my suspension. If you need an example of what I'm talking about, drive I-40 WB at Meridian or MacArthur. You'll understand.
3) The design of highway interchanges is abysmal. The fact that we still have cloverleafs or two lane bridges for major interstates in new designs is outrageous.
4) The length of time it takes to complete a project is outrageous. Ironically, so is the length of time it takes for the new projects to start deteriorating. Example: the onramp to I-40 EB at Penn (or Western?) or the bridge over the Bricktown Canal portion. Or the fact they didn't realize that the roadbed was too high for the new Main St. bridge project in Norman so they had to redo that.
5) They widened I-40 to El Reno to three lanes but we leave the I-44/I-40 interchange bridges all at two lanes with crumbling concrete (even though they've been working on it for two years). WTF kind of planning and financial prudence is this?
6) There is a lot of waste in the number of signs that are placed for special names and "attractions." Not to mention the signs are put up poorly (gaps between the panels, signs tilted, bent, blown over, run over, etc).
7) Traffic signal timing. We don't have it in most places here apparently.
8) They obviously are not laying appropriate roadbeds because the roads sink and crack about 10 months after opening throughout the city.
9) Why can't they smooth the area where two surfaces of road meet. Example: they resurfaced an asphalt portion of one of the area turnpikes. However, when they got to the portion where the road turned back to concrete, the asphalt was slightly lower than the concrete. So, instead of smoothing this transition out (like I see done in Texas and Kansas), vehicles have now destroyed the beginning of the concrete portion from slamming into it and now there are chunks missing. It's now a game of chicken to see if your tires will stay mounted if you happen to hit one of these holes.

It's just a general sense of no thought being put into anything, a lot of waste, and then doing everything as cheaply as possible. It gets old.

[Buffalo Bill]

Maybe not the bulk of it, but some is - ODOT shares responsibility for a lot of roads in OKC.

A very small percentage. Only those with an Interstate Highway, US Highway, or State Highway designation.

[bluedogok]

Quite a few of the roads are in horrible condition. Our interchanges are a joke. It takes years and years to finish a highway and when we do, the part that we first started on already has to be fixed because it took so damn long to get the entire stretch built. Just drive around town man, the roads are rough and bumpy. It gets worse everyday. I know there are some great projects going to try and solve this, but it needs to hurry.

They are pretty much the same as anywhere else, every city/county/state has a bunch of "bad roads" because every place can only budget for so much work. Most interchanges are built to a yearly funding model and can only do so much work in a fiscal year. They all play a shell game shifting the pile of money around to address a fraction of the needs of a state. Ben White (US290) in South Austin has been under construction for 25 years, they just finished the partial interchanges at I-35 and the one at Mopac about 4-5 years ago. They have been talking about what to do at the Oak Hill interchange (the west end of US290 in Austin) and Texas 71 since well before I moved there in 2003 and they are still trying to figure out what to do about it. The only way roads get built fast is toll roads since the interest on the bonds has to be paid and the longer they take to build the more that accrues.

As far as traffic signal timing, I find OKC to be one of the better cities for it. Here in Denver it is atrocious when the 3 second left turn light with 20 cars waiting at the light seems to be the norm, the slow drivers here exacerbate the problem because the first car hasn't cleared the intersection when it starts to change. They also seem to have way more purely timed lights here than I can recall elsewhere. Austin was somewhere in between.

[Plutonic Panda]

My problems with our roads are many:

1) The city/county/state continually spends money patching patches of previously patched patches. These are ruining my suspension.
2) The expansion joints at the beginning and end of our bridges are vicious. These are also ruining my suspension. If you need an example of what I'm talking about, drive I-40 WB at Meridian or MacArthur. You'll understand.
3) The design of highway interchanges is abysmal. The fact that we still have cloverleafs or two lane bridges for major interstates in new designs is outrageous.
4) The length of time it takes to complete a project is outrageous. Ironically, so is the length of time it takes for the new projects to start deteriorating. Example: the onramp to I-40 EB at Penn (or Western?) or the bridge over the Bricktown Canal portion. Or the fact they didn't realize that the roadbed was too high for the new Main St. bridge project in Norman so they had to redo that.
5) They widened I-40 to El Reno to three lanes but we leave the I-44/I-40 interchange bridges all at two lanes with crumbling concrete (even though they've been working on it for two years). WTF kind of planning and financial prudence is this?
6) There is a lot of waste in the number of signs that are placed for special names and "attractions." Not to mention the signs are put up poorly (gaps between the panels, signs tilted, bent, blown over, run over, etc).
7) Traffic signal timing. We don't have it in most places here apparently.
8) They obviously are not laying appropriate roadbeds because the roads sink and crack about 10 months after opening throughout the city.
9) Why can't they smooth the area where two surfaces of road meet. Example: they resurfaced an asphalt portion of one of the area turnpikes. However, when they got to the portion where the road turned back to concrete, the asphalt was slightly lower than the concrete. So, instead of smoothing this transition out (like I see done in Texas and Kansas), vehicles have now destroyed the beginning of the concrete portion from slamming into it and now there are chunks missing. It's now a game of chicken to see if your tires will stay mounted if you happen to hit one of these holes.

It's just a general sense of no thought being put into anything, a lot of waste, and then doing everything as cheaply as possible. It gets old.

Please send that to ODOT, not like it'll do anything, I'm just wandering if they're even aware of this insanity.

[Plutonic Panda]

They are pretty much the same as anywhere else, every city/county/state has a bunch of "bad roads" because every place can only budget for so much work. Most interchanges are built to a yearly funding model and can only do so much work in a fiscal year. They all play a shell game shifting the pile of money around to address a fraction of the needs of a state. Ben White (US290) in South Austin has been under construction for 25 years, they just finished the partial interchanges at I-35 and the one at Mopac about 4-5 years ago. They have been talking about what to do at the Oak Hill interchange (the west end of US290 in Austin) and Texas 71 since well before I moved there in 2003 and they are still trying to figure out what to do about it. The only way roads get built fast is toll roads since the interest on the bonds has to be paid and the longer they take to build the more that accrues.

As far as traffic signal timing, I find OKC to be one of the better cities for it. Here in Denver it is atrocious when the 3 second left turn light with 20 cars waiting at the light seems to be the norm, the slow drivers here exacerbate the problem because the first car hasn't cleared the intersection when it starts to change. They also seem to have way more purely timed lights here than I can recall elsewhere. Austin was somewhere in between.

Hmmmm. From what I've seen, Austin seems to have way better roads than we do. Their interchanges are much better as their highways seem to be designed better as well.