I wish I knew...

[bucktalk]

After watching the movie '12 Years A Slave' I was reminded how extremely difficult life was for black people in portions of America. Its difficult to understand how plantation owners considered slaves as "property" more than human beings. The intensity of struggles for slaves during those slave years, in many cases, went far beyond brutality. From the early years of our nation, until recent years, blacks have had to overcome deep prejudice and physical persecution. The scars, undoubtedly, run deep and understandably so.

I am not black. But I wonder if black Americans embrace the thought which some hold to say those who are gay in America have similarities to what black people have faced in times past. Personally I think if I were black I would be extremely offend to compare sufferings of days gone by for black to gay people today. It seems to me the comparisons are extremely different.

My question is, if you're black -are you offended by the comparison or do you see them (black/gay) as being one and the same?

I wish I knew...

[ylouder]

I cant answer the specific question, but I always do a double take when I read another white person saying that racism is dead today and that African Americans need to 'get over it'. Or that other people Asian, Native, Mexican, Muslim, Gay, etc Americans need to 'get over it' in regards to how the majority of society wronged them. Especially when all you need to do is open ANY news story comment section about someone who is 'different' than the majority to see why they don't 'get over it'.

Its absolutely disgusting and embarrassing that so many take so much pleasure in continually tormenting a silent minority on a daily basis.

About the movie - its incredibly profound because its a real story, and its just one of millions that were never recorded. Even when compared to the holocaust its pales in comparison because the torture lasted an entire lifetime.

[HangryHippo]

I cant answer the specific question, but I always do a double take when I read another white person saying that racism is dead today and that African Americans need to 'get over it'. Or that other people Asian, Native, Mexican, Muslim, Gay, etc Americans need to 'get over it' in regards to how the majority of society wronged them. Especially when all you need to do is open ANY news story comment section about someone who is 'different' than the majority to see why they don't 'get over it'.

Its absolutely disgusting and embarrassing that so many take so much pleasure in continually tormenting a silent minority on a daily basis.

About the movie - its incredibly profound because its a real story, and its just one of millions that were never recorded. Even when compared to the holocaust its pales in comparison because the torture lasted an entire lifetime.

Just to clarify, are you saying that the Holocaust pales in comparison to slavery?

[RadicalModerate]

For about six million Jews, the Holocaust represented the last of an entire lifetime.
(I don't think comparing the Holocaust to slavery is a valid comparison. Just my opinion.)

[Garin]

Anthony Johnson (colonist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seeing how the first slave owner that was Black himself, actually went to court to make it legal this seems to be apples and oranges IMO. In most cases you can't look at a homosexual and tell them apart from a heterosexual, this is obviously not the case from someone that is black, Asian, white, or Indian. Not sure have you can overlook that homosexuals are not a different race of people.

[PennyQuilts]

Well, the way I look at it is like this: Suppose we do an experiment by taking gay folk and putting them into slavery. Give them a year or two just to be fair/realistic appraisal. Now, let's ask them if they think their lives are better or worse.

I think we all know the answer to the question.

That being said, I am not suggesting there aren't difficulties in being gay but most of them, I'll warrant, have to do with the pain that comes from familial turmoil and perhaps job discrimination. I've known gays to get rolled and that's awful but it isn't a day to day thing in this country. Other countries, it is a whole lot worse.

[ylouder]

Just to clarify, are you saying that the Holocaust pales in comparison to slavery?

For clarity - I was comparing the span of years from the beginning of the holocaust to the end of the war to the start of the trans Atlantic slave trade till emancipation (but some could easily say till end of Jim Crow)

Approximately 11,863,000 Africans were shipped across the Atlantic, with a death rate during the Middle Passage reducing this number by 10-20 percent

And this number doesnt take into account those who were born into a life of slavery once there parents got here.


Back on topic - I dont think the LGBT community comparing their struggles to civil rights movement is valid because there wasn't such a deep and dark history. As others have said, its really apples and oranges but they have definitely been discriminated against and its long past time that it ended.

[Prunepicker]

... Personally I think if I were black I would be extremely offend to compare
sufferings of days gone by for black to gay people today. It seems to me the
comparisons are extremely different.

My question is, if you're black -are you offended by the comparison or do
you see them (black/gay) as being one and the same?

There is nothing similar. Blacks are born black and homosexuals aren't
born homosexual. To compare the two is preposterous.

[Bunty]

There is nothing similar. Blacks are born black and homosexuals aren't
born homosexual. To compare the two is preposterous.

Well, if you assume, though, that everyone was born to be a heterosexual, then what happens to one that inspires him or her to choose to become a homosexual, other than perhaps becoming attracted to it like a forbidden drug, which leads to a highly addictive lifestyle. But who chooses to become an addict?

[mugofbeer]

Approximately 11,863,000 Africans were shipped across the Atlantic, with a death rate during the Middle Passage reducing this number by 10-20 percent

I've always wondered where numbers such as this came from.

To get this many slaves on board ships - and I know they were crammed in like sardines in a can at 200-300 per ship, you are talking 40,000 to 50,000 ship voyages. This sounds really, really, really high......

[Prunepicker]

I've always wondered where numbers such as this came from...

Out of the Blue?

[Chadanth]

Out of the Blue?

It's not like historians spend their whole lives researching that sort of thing....

[Uncle Slayton]

It doesn't seem to be comparable. When gays go to other states, they're not subject to being dragged back to their place of origin in chains, with a bounty paid for the return. They aren't outrightly forbidden to live wherever they wish (sundown towns and the like), or to have their families broken up and sent/sold to the four winds, nor are they handed down in wills as part of estates, or given to children who are marrying, etc.

The fruits of their labors aren't taken from them, at least in any greater proportion than they are taken from the rest of us who work for our daily bread.

They aren't forbidden under pain of death from consorting with white women (in fact, I'm sure the Baptists et al would prefer that…)

Go to the Oklahoma Historical Society and read the slave narratives put together by the WPA in the 30s(?). Once you read a few of those accounts, you'll see that the comparison is laughable.

[Garin]

Well, if you assume, though, that everyone was born to be a heterosexual, then what happens to one that inspires him or her to choose to become a homosexual, other than perhaps becoming attracted to it like a forbidden drug, which leads to a highly addictive lifestyle. But who chooses to become an addict?

People choose to be a lot of things… Drug addicts , Murderers, Lawyers, Homosexuals, Dog lovers, Cat lovers, Daredevils, Homeless,etc…….. However if your born a different color you have now choice of that. Or if you're Jewish or Asian you don't have a choice of that. So to compare Blacks to Homosexuals is apples and oranges.