Home building tips

[Easy180]

About a month away from completion of our second home through a builder and thought it might be helpful to have a thread for helpful hints etc.

Just ran into something new that I wanted to share...Our home builder along with numerous other builders are putting wood over 3rd car garage (full garage in some cases) areas instead of brick to save a grand...Never really knew of this approach but I think it reeks of cheap on the front of your house no less...Spent $300 to get it bricked

Anyone else run into surprises or have recommendations for folks in the early stages or looking to build?

[bluedogok]

It is common in Texas just to brick the front of the house, if the third car garage is offset I can understand the change in materials looks wise. The fully bricked house is a rarity anymore.

Up here in Colorado our house (built in 1999) is all siding as is most newer homes that aren't a half million and up.

[Easy180]

I guess my tip would be to ask early on instead of just assuming they will brick above the entire garage...They also skimped above windows on the side and back but we weren't too concerned with those

I would also recommend ensuring they use metal poles instead of wood if you are throwing in a fence...Wood posts are a NIGHTMARE

[WilliamTell]

-get what you want, dont let the builder talk you out of nice convenience features because they arent in their predetermined options list.

-dont pay for extra sod or a fence for 30 years, pay out of pocket or get them after closing

-check the house as much as you can and bother the crap out of them if something doesnt look right, we had spots of missing insulation and even a missing chimney cap that was allowing water in

[bluedogok]

I guess my tip would be to ask early on instead of just assuming they will brick above the entire garage...They also skimped above windows on the side and back but we weren't too concerned with those

I would also recommend ensuring they use metal poles instead of wood if you are throwing in a fence...Wood posts are a NIGHTMARE

I would say that should be settled in the design phase, whatever is shown on plans/elevations is what should be built. If they aren't shown on the drawings, don't assume the material is going to be any different than shown. If you want something different, the drawings should reflect that, they are contract documents after all. Something written in a (non-drawing) contract may not make it to the field, the drawings should reflect what is supposed to be built.

[BBatesokc]

My parents just bought a new Neal McGee home in Edmond in Cheyenne Ridge Villas and I'm shocked what a terrible builder and company they are - at least in my parent's situation and after talking to several of their neighbors (also Neal McGee homes). The structure of the home itself appears fine (I'm not a builder, so I really wouldn't know) but for $340K+ homes, they provide terrible customer service and seem to either be extremely cheap or simply don't know their job or their customers very well.

Speaking of brick, one of the homes in the cul-de-sac is stucco - after speaking to the new home owner I learned the builder (Neal McGee) was so inattentive to details that they used two different types of brick on the exterior and didn't catch it until it was done. Their solution? Just cover the house in stucco!

The builder also is totally inept when it came to drainage. They literally laid a french drain 'sock' on the ground next to the house and covered it with rock and called it acceptable. Didn't even dig a trench. The home inspector missed it during inspection. I happened to catch it only because I'm looking to do my own french drains at our home and I thought I could look at theirs for some 'expert' tips. I immediately saw it didn't even meet the basics of the DIY videos on YouTube. The inspector came back out and was so embarrassed about missing it he refunded the $500 inspection fee on the spot. Then they tried to claim they couldn't do it the way we wanted because of Edmond code issues. Come to find out, there were no code issues.

The list of details they either totally ignored or poorly executed is staggering. My parents have lived in the house a couple of months now and their punch list of to-dos hasn't even been addressed yet - hearing the same complaints from other neighbors. Even though they promised to address them all after closing.

This would be my biggest suggestion - Do not close until EVERYTHING is done to your satisfaction, regardless of how much pressure the builder puts on you.

My parents home is no mansion, but at right at $340K I think there is a level of expectation that should be met when building and selling to clients in this price range.

Bad drainage, unprofessional sprinklers and cheap, cheap landscaping was probably their biggest and most expensive issue - beyond that was just tons of little things a house in that price range should include..... for example: dimmers on light switches, electrical outlets in the floor in large living areas, canister lights in vaulted ceiling should point straight down and not with the angle of the ceiling, overspray on ceilings from crown moldings, plenty of wall electrical outlets, lights in closets, more than just a single light bulb in the garage, etc.

I blame most of it on nepotism and stinginess - the realtor was the builder's daughter and the 'designer' was another daughter. Both lied constantly to me and my parents and blamed each other and the only time daddy stepped in was to be a bully to the buyers.

Even when they closed (I had to get the key as my parents lived in Austin) I had to go to their office and they just handed over a set of keys - no "Thank you for buying your new home from us" or anything. Get to the home and no flowers, or card welcoming the new home buyer - instead, I had to immediately clean because the floor was covered in dirt from workers going in and out at the last minute. Come to find out, the house wasn't even locked!

Maybe I'm expecting too much, but I know people who've bought less expensive homes that were made to feel more welcome and thanked for their business. -which in turn often results in excellent reviews and recommendations.

Regardless, I think hiring an outside designer is well worth it if you want all the niceties included before you move in so your new home isn't in a constant stage of upgrading.

Some things my parents added that I think lots of home owners would enjoy....

1.) Full home audio - in their case they have 8 zones that can be controlled from the TV, a smart phone/tablet or individually from wall displays in each room. Its really nice to have purchased music, radio or TV audio in any room you choose (even in the back patio and front yard).
2.) All LED lights. Really like the light they put off and the ability to completely control the diffusion and in some cases even the color of the light itself.
3.) Electrical outlets not only on each exterior wall but also in strategically placed areas of the front and back yard. They had the entire perimeter of their property outlined with electrical so landscape lighting and outlets can be placed anywhere they want.
4.) French drains - no more pools of water anywhere around the exterior of the house.
5.) Security cameras - much cheaper to install during construction - gives great piece of mind. They had 16 cameras installed and could have saved a couple thousand dollars if they'd done it during construction as opposed to after.
6.) We personally love boulders as part of landscaping. If you think you would too, have these brought in during construction - saves a lot of money on installation (fences are not up yet and lawns don't have to be repaired).

[SoonerDave]

One of the ugly lessons some people learn the hard way about builders is that building in nicer, upscale additions with presumably "name" builders is anything but a guarantee of quality in materials or workmanship. In fact, I've seen many cases where some relatively unscrupulous builders leverage the assumption that "if I'm buying in here, the builders must be elite," when they're not. I've seen very expensive homes in very expensive areas built with really shoddy attention to all those factors, but once you close, heaven help you trying to get anything fixed.

Some residential land developers will strictly control the builders to whom they will sell their lots specifically for this reason. I've been a part of two developments whose owners would not sell lots to two specific developers (whom I won't name here) because they had a reputation for building garbage. Another builder constructed interior walls on non-standard 24" centers to save a buck on framing lumber, and didn't properly structure a covered patio on one of his homes. It was sagging nearly a foot front-to-back less than a month after it was completed.

I personally think custom-building a home is the way to go, because a builder can appoint a spec home to the nines and the average person won't have a clue what's behind the walls. I've built two homes, and was particularly anal about nearly every aspect of construction right down to the floor plans I drew to the number of outlets on the outside and inside walls. And even at that, there were things I missed. Fortunately, my builder (who, unfortunately, has long since passed away) appreciated the fact that I was a bit more educated about home construction than the average customer, and he didn't mind my attention to detail. I wanted an oversize electrical service box, Cat-5 wiring (which was a big deal 15 years ago) and ethernet drops in every room, plywood rather than OSB decking, excavated footings, and that's just for starters. The point is educate and specify when you build.

I spec'ed out two pages of detail and additions that I stapled to the real estate contract along with my floor plans, and I would strongly encourage anyone building a home right now to educate themselves as much as possible about the process of building a home, right down to the type of foundation being poured, the grade of lumber being used, the experience level of his subs, the kinds of amenities you want (such as appliances), and even to the point of ensuring his HVAC contractor performs a Manual J heat load calculation on the home when assessing the size of AC that it requires. IMO, you cannot over-detail a construction contract. Everything is negotiable. Never assume that this switch or that fixture is a "given" in "that kind" of home. If you want something, nail it down in the contract with as much specificity as possible. If your builder starts to balk at something like that, I'd consider looking elsewhere. More specificity should give a builder/businessman more confidence in you as a customer, not less.

Its going to get really tough over the next few months to get good builders, as I suspect we're already being flooded with fly-by-night contractors to build up new homes in replacement for all the tornado damage. Its only a matter of time before we start hearing stories about how Crooked Builder X threw up a piece of garbage, took the insurance check from some poor soul, and disappeared into the night to leave the homeowner holding the bag for all the crappy problems he left behind.

Be very, very careful!

[bluedogok]

It's even worse with the large, national builders, they use the same crews whether it is a $150,000 tract home or million dollar mansion unless specialty trades are involved. I have seen things in new multi-million dollar homes that I wouldn't accept in my $250,000 home but then my business is also punching out building projects so maybe I see things that that other people might not notice. I know that when I did drawings for Brent Gibson he had a few builders that he liked to work with and felt they did quality work, there were others that he discouraged clients from using. He wasn't the only one that I heard the same names from.

[okcboomer]

Are there any good web sites out there that rank home builders? Looking at buying an already built home, and would love to get my hands on some good info.

[loveOKC]

I would also like to see info on Homebuilders

[WilliamTell]

see the a floor plan / exterior / brick type in person before committing to something. just because it looks good on paper or a design studio the final product may not be exactly what you had in mind.

[BBatesokc]

I highly recommend builders or designers that can offer a 3D walk-thorugh of your design. Helps alot with more visual people.

[Servicetech571]

From an energy savings prospective make sure the house is tighhtly insulated (use spray foam if budget allows). Put ductwork inside conditioned space, not in a hot attic!! Install HVAC equipment about 1/2 the normal size for the sqft of the house and enjoy energy savings for the life of the building.

[stick47]

Use a lot of tile on the floors instead of carpet. Helps keep the house cool in the Summer. (1200sf of tile in our home) Cellular shades are very good at reducing radiant heat through windows. High roofs & ceilings also help keep the house cool.

[BBatesokc]

Use a lot of tile on the floors instead of carpet. Helps keep the house cool in the Summer. (1200sf of tile in our home) Cellular shades are very good at reducing radiant heat through windows. High roofs & ceilings also help keep the house cool.

Carpet is just completely gross. Haven't had it in years and plan never to again. They did a TV special on carpet and randomly went into homes in different cites - modest homes, luxury homes, pets, no pets, kids, no kids - it was always the same..... the carpet was just a petri-dish of nastiness, regardless how often you vacuumed or professionally cleaned.

We do a combination of tile and either real or laminate wood. You can see when its dirty/clean and, yes, it is cooler to the touch.

[SoonerDave]

Use a lot of tile on the floors instead of carpet. Helps keep the house cool in the Summer. (1200sf of tile in our home) Cellular shades are very good at reducing radiant heat through windows. High roofs & ceilings also help keep the house cool.

Maybe, maybe not. High roofs/ceilings increase the total volume of air that must be heated/cooled by your HVAC system. More air to heat/cool, more gas/elec (as apropos) to get the job done. Exacerbated if rooms with higher ceilings are along south or west exposures, esp. in summertime.

[stick47]

I might agree on the ceiling part of your theory (though you haven't convinced me) but I surely will disagree on the roof part. The more dead space between you and the shingles on your roof, the less heat that will be transferred into your climate controlled living area.
We went from a home with 8 ft ceilings and an attic above that was maybe 5 ft high to one with 10 & 11 ft ceilings and an attic over 16 ft high. The new house is 2.3 times larger than the old house but the summer electric bills are averaging 25% less.

[Servicetech571]

Spray foam insulate and it won't matter about attic height. Installed correctly Spray Foam just works, ask anybody who has had it done.

[stick47]

Spray foam payout didn't work for us.

[SoonerDave]

I might agree on the ceiling part of your theory (though you haven't convinced me) but I surely will disagree on the roof part. The more dead space between you and the shingles on your roof, the less heat that will be transferred into your climate controlled living area.
We went from a home with 8 ft ceilings and an attic above that was maybe 5 ft high to one with 10 & 11 ft ceilings and an attic over 16 ft high. The new house is 2.3 times larger than the old house but the summer electric bills are averaging 25% less.

Sorry, stick, but it isn't a theory. A room of a given length and width and, say, an 8' ceiling height has a smaller volume of air to cool/heat compared to a room of the same width and height but a 10' ceiling. That air has to be moved and cooled, and to do that work requires more energy for more volume. That is, a 10x10 room that's 8' high has 800 cu ft of air to cool. A 10x10 room of 10' height has 1000 cu ft of air to cool. Reducing the temperature of the 1000 cu ft space takes more energy than reducing the temperature of the 800 cu ft space by the same amount.

The space between you and the shingles isn't at all "dead space." The attic space acts as an insulator that, in turn, heats the ductwork (limits heat loss, at least). A higher-pitched roof (say 10/12) will enclose a greater volume of space than, say a more conventional 7-pitch, and create a much more efficient "oven" as it were to heat that ductwork. That attic space can heat in the summer to the outside temp plus 30-40 degrees, and a higher-pitched roof encloses an even greater volume of air heated to that temperature. That's why so many HVAC types are really encouraging folks to put their ductwork inside the conditioned cavity of the home, with spray foaming being an ideal option toward that objective.

The savings you are seeing are not because you have more conditioned space, but almost certainly due to a number of factors in tandem, not the least of which is almost certainly a vastly improved central AC unit leading to less power consumption, superior insulation and building leading to less heat transfer, better quality windows and sealing, better insulated ceiling vents or ducts, different shingle color/materials, perhaps even foam insulation, and a properly-sized compressor, to name only a few factors.

And, as ServiceTech has said, spray foam insulation trumps all.

[stick47]

SD you're certainly entitled to have your own opinions.
For now I'll put you down in the "low pitch roofs do not have hotter attics than a steep pitch roofs" club.

[RadicalModerate]

One of the "takeaways" from a conference on this sort of stuff that I once attended was voiced by a person who makes a VERY good living designing "house systems" for maximum efficiency and comfort (condensed version): It is [stupid] to run ductwork outside of the conditioned air envelope (e.g. under the slab or in the attic).

If you think about it, he was right. Furr downs/duct chases are inexpensive.
The energy required for conditioning air is not.
It's sort of a "thinking inside the box" deal.

Oh (from my own personal observations/experience in the field):
Never skimp on the foundation. Never.
Or drainage considerations. No matter how complex they may be.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Hire an architect.

[RadicalModerate]

Hire an architect.

Who hires energy consultants.
(and engineers where advisable)

(and be sure that the framers understand how to square a corner and crown all the studs.)

[SoonerDave]

SD you're certainly entitled to have your own opinions.
For now I'll put you down in the "low pitch roofs do not have hotter attics than a steep pitch roofs" club.

As I said, it isn't a matter of "my own opinion." It is a fact that a larger volume of air requires more energy to cool than a smaller volume of air by the same amount - not sure which part of that you're taking to be opinion. If the converse were true, we'd all seek to build infinitely large homes that would take asymptotically approaching zero energy to cool...