Lincoln Park Golf Course

[Pete]

This project is now underway:

Lincoln Park Golf Course is a 36-hole championship course located at 4001 NE Grand Boulevard. It is Oklahoma City’s oldest public golf course, built by the Citivan Club and donated to the City in 1921. The current clubhouse was constructed in 1960.

Oklahoma City Public Property Authority authorized the $9.25 million project in June 2012, which will raze the aging clubhouse and replace it with a 32,000 square foot new building that will include multi-purpose facilities. The new project will position Lincoln Clubhouse to attract golf tournaments and events for up to 250 people. Oklahoma City views public golf facilities as economic development tools because they generate operational revenues to support the public golf system and help local businesses attract top talent to the City.

[Pete]

There will also be a new driving range facility:

[MikeLucky]

Wow, that looks VERY NICE. And, of course, long overdue. BUT, I will say that as munies go, the OKC courses are always VERY WELL maintained for play... so it never bothered me that they seemed to sacrifice updated clubhouses for better golf. But, this is great to see.

[Pete]

Lincoln West was always my favorite public course and the setting in general is really beautiful.

Look forward to seeing this completed, as it will make something good into something great.


I'm trying to get my hands on more renderings, especially of the interior. Will post when/if I receive.

[HangryHippo]

Well, I think it is beautiful but I do wish the City would hire a branding agency to help them come up with a more unified design theme. Public projects like this would be great to build where the design fit with a larger, more iconic theme.

While I like this project a great deal from the pictures Pete posted, I very much like your idea, Sid. I think a more unified theme would be really great for the city.

[warreng88]

Here is a link to their website with some other renderings of the club house:

LWPB Architecture

[Pete]

Thanks for the link!

Here are the detailed renderings... Love the upstairs terrace that overlooks the course:

[Pete]

And speaking of a unified design theme, they are rebuilding the Earlywine clubhouse in the same style:

[warreng88]

It's interesting. I was at a birthday party for a good friend in mid-January and he introduced me to another one of this friends who is an architect. I asked what he had worked on that I might know of and he told me about the NW OKC Library (the one on 122nd and Macarthur with oil derricks coming out of it) and he said he worked on a new club house and showed me a picture of the first one you posted on his phone. I didn't think anything of it at the time because I figured it had already been announced and possibly under construction.

[MikeLucky]

Well, I think it is beautiful but I do wish the City would hire a branding agency to help them come up with a more unified design theme. Public projects like this would be great to build where the design fit with a larger, more iconic theme.

While I like this project a great deal from the pictures Pete posted, I very much like your idea, Sid. I think a more unified theme would be really great for the city.

I'm guessing you guys aren't golfers, huh? lol


I hear what you are saying, but I can tell you that if the finished product holds up to the renderings, these clubhouses will be in the style of some very nice, VERY EXPENSIVE country clubs throughout the country. The ski lodge/chalet style is most definitely "en vogue" in these circles and it shows to me that they are being pretty forward thinking in the design.

I'm not a developer or architect, but I am a golfer... and it's just my humble opinion.

[Dan]

If built as rendered, this clubhouse will be nicer than all but maybe two of the private golf clubs' in the city (i.e., all but OKCGCC & Gaillardia).

The courses are another story. Yes, Lincoln West is a nice public course, probably the best of the OKC munis (Earlywine North is good too, but neither of those are as nice as OU/Jimmie Austin). But they'd have to invest a whole lot in upkeep to get it up to snuff to host tournaments above charity scrambles and high school tournaments. I'd like it if they did, but I have a hard time seeing that happening.

My bottom line -- these are awesome clubhouses, but if they're attached to munis that aren't unusually special, will they really draw the tournament $$ they project? Is there any basis to think they'll invest more in improving the courses?

[BoulderSooner]

I'm guessing you guys aren't golfers, huh? lol


I hear what you are saying, but I can tell you that if the finished product holds up to the renderings, these clubhouses will be in the style of some very nice, VERY EXPENSIVE country clubs throughout the country. The ski lodge/chalet style is most definitely "en vogue" in these circles and it shows to me that they are being pretty forward thinking in the design.

I'm not a developer or architect, but I am a golfer... and it's just my humble opinion.

i am a golfer as well i very much agree with your post ..

[catch22]

Glad to see Earlywine is also going to get a rebuild.

I use Earlywine fairly often due to proximity, the course is nice but the clubhouse is showing some age.

[BoulderSooner]

just fyi but these projects were both part of the 2007 GO bond issue

[MikeLucky]

If built as rendered, this clubhouse will be nicer than all but maybe two of the private golf clubs' in the city (i.e., all but OKCGCC & Gaillardia).

The courses are another story. Yes, Lincoln West is a nice public course, probably the best of the OKC munis (Earlywine North is good too, but neither of those are as nice as OU/Jimmie Austin). But they'd have to invest a whole lot in upkeep to get it up to snuff to host tournaments above charity scrambles and high school tournaments. I'd like it if they did, but I have a hard time seeing that happening.

My bottom line -- these are awesome clubhouses, but if they're attached to munis that aren't unusually special, will they really draw the tournament $$ they project? Is there any basis to think they'll invest more in improving the courses?

My assumption is that charity events and scrambles is what they meant with that... From a bottomline standpoint, that's what you need to help your margins. If you have 250 people playing in a charity scramble, they are all buying food and merchandise... And, those are the items with the highest margins.

It's interesting that you don't mention Hefner. I personally think it's the best maintained muni in town... although I don't play the munies religiously, so maybe things have changed.

Nope. Not a golfer. My suggestion may be a bad one then if I need to be.

Like I said, I hear what you were saying and I'm certainly not telling you that you are flat wrong... lol. BUT, perspective is important in this case.

[Dan]

Hefner is indeed well maintained -- especially recently, as I heard they got an up-and-coming greenskeeper from Southern Hills(?) that is doing a bang-up job. But, in my opinion, Lincoln West and Earlywine North are better tracks overall. They may not be maintained quite as well, but they're just better courses.

You know, you're probably right about the charity scrambles. I guess I underestimated the amount of cash they can generate. But when I read that they were aiming to pay for the improvements with tournament revenue, I was thinking of more like high-level amateur or college events (no way either of those courses are even getting mini-tours). Still hard to think that they're going to increase revenue $500k+/yr, but I hope they do.

[BoulderSooner]

Hefner is indeed well maintained -- especially recently, as I heard they got an up-and-coming greenskeeper from Southern Hills(?) that is doing a bang-up job. But, in my opinion, Lincoln West and Earlywine North are better tracks overall. They may not be maintained quite as well, but they're just better courses.

You know, you're probably right about the charity scrambles. I guess I underestimated the amount of cash they can generate. But when I read that they were aiming to pay for the improvements with tournament revenue, I was thinking of more like high-level amateur or college events (no way either of those courses are even getting mini-tours). Still hard to think that they're going to increase revenue $500k+/yr, but I hope they do.

the capital expense . (at least most of it) doesn't have to be "paid for" 2.25 mil for each club house is 2007 GO bond money

[MikeLucky]

Hefner is indeed well maintained -- especially recently, as I heard they got an up-and-coming greenskeeper from Southern Hills(?) that is doing a bang-up job. But, in my opinion, Lincoln West and Earlywine North are better tracks overall. They may not be maintained quite as well, but they're just better courses.

Ah, I gotcha... Yeah, I can't disagree with that. With the lack of true diversity in terrain here, I guess I don't see too much difference in the courses. And, having spent a lot of time on private clubs (cue the Thurston Howell voice), I know that I personally value maintenance over most other things... but, not everyone feels the same way, for sure.

You know, you're probably right about the charity scrambles. I guess I underestimated the amount of cash they can generate. But when I read that they were aiming to pay for the improvements with tournament revenue, I was thinking of more like high-level amateur or college events (no way either of those courses are even getting mini-tours). Still hard to think that they're going to increase revenue $500k+/yr, but I hope they do.

Well, with 36 holes they will have the ability to do just that. They can run 2 tournaments a day on one 18, and still have normal play on the other. And, keep in mind that tournament "prizes" are almost always proshop credits... and I can tell you for a fact that for every $50 of prize money credits, I've spent AT LEAST equal dollars, if not more, on the back end. If I win $100, then I can get that $300 driver for $200... done. A $50 prize means I can get 2 dozen ProV1's for the price of one.... etc... But, the biggest money maker during these tournaments is BEER. If I paid $75 a month ago to be in this tournament, (which typically includes range balls, cart, green fees, some free swag, and usually a sack lunch) then I walk onto the course ready to spend any money I have in my pocket on beer, snacks, golf balls... etc.

Just throwing out some conservative approximations here... two full tournaments would be 2 groups of 4 teeing off on each hole, shotgun style. That's 144 in the 8am tourney and 144 in the 1pm tourney... Even if each golfer only spent $30 that day, AND you only had tournaments on Sat/Sun for 36 weeks a year... that's 288(golfers/day) x $30 x 2 (sat & sun) x 36 = $622,080. Keep in mind, they already paid their green fees and other normal overhead expenses with their entry fee, so this is straight proshop, restaurant, bar revenue which have pretty high margins. So, even looking at it conservatively, it's easy to see why they crave the tournament action.

[Lafferty Daniel]

Well, I think it is beautiful but I do wish the City would hire a branding agency to help them come up with a more unified design theme. Public projects like this would be great to build where the design fit with a larger, more iconic theme.

I've read this a couple times and don't get what you mean. What am I missing? Iconic theme for the city golf courses? Iconic theme for the city in general that ties in to the golf courses?

[Lafferty Daniel]

Ah, I gotcha... Yeah, I can't disagree with that. With the lack of true diversity in terrain here, I guess I don't see too much difference in the courses. And, having spent a lot of time on private clubs (cue the Thurston Howell voice), I know that I personally value maintenance over most other things... but, not everyone feels the same way, for sure.



Well, with 36 holes they will have the ability to do just that. They can run 2 tournaments a day on one 18, and still have normal play on the other. And, keep in mind that tournament "prizes" are almost always proshop credits... and I can tell you for a fact that for every $50 of prize money credits, I've spent AT LEAST equal dollars, if not more, on the back end. If I win $100, then I can get that $300 driver for $200... done. A $50 prize means I can get 2 dozen ProV1's for the price of one.... etc... But, the biggest money maker during these tournaments is BEER. If I paid $75 a month ago to be in this tournament, (which typically includes range balls, cart, green fees, some free swag, and usually a sack lunch) then I walk onto the course ready to spend any money I have in my pocket on beer, snacks, golf balls... etc.

Just throwing out some conservative approximations here... two full tournaments would be 2 groups of 4 teeing off on each hole, shotgun style. That's 144 in the 8am tourney and 144 in the 1pm tourney... Even if each golfer only spent $30 that day, AND you only had tournaments on Sat/Sun for 36 weeks a year... that's 288(golfers/day) x $30 x 2 (sat & sun) x 36 = $622,080. Keep in mind, they already paid their green fees and other normal overhead expenses with their entry fee, so this is straight proshop, restaurant, bar revenue which have pretty high margins. So, even looking at it conservatively, it's easy to see why they crave the tournament action.

I agree with the point you're trying to make, but that is a little extreme to think that many tournaments will be held in a year. That's not a conservative approximation at all. That would leave zero ability for golfers who are not in the tournament to play. Hardly every do you call Lincoln for a tee time on a Saturday/Sunday and they say you can't get one because they are booked for a full 144 person tournament.

[Pete]

Thanks for explaining, Sid.

What you describe makes a lot of sense and it would be nice for OKC to carve out it's own style and identity through architecture, colors and public amenities.

[Lafferty Daniel]

The thought going through my mind when I first saw the drawings was "Boulder" or ski lodge. Whether it be used on bus shelters, public buildings, park and plaza spaces...I've wished OKC had a design vernacular of its own that could be used in cases like this. So that at some point in the future, public buildings/structures share a theme. Seattle does this with a couple colors and so does Vancouver. Vancouver even went so far as to define certain textures they wanted to use throughout the city.

Just thinking out loud. I have nothing bad to say about the project. It looks lovely. Just triggered a thought I've had several times.

Gotcha. Makes more sense now, thanks.

[BoulderSooner]

The thought going through my mind when I first saw the drawings was "Boulder" or ski lodge. Whether it be used on bus shelters, public buildings, park and plaza spaces...I've wished OKC had a design vernacular of its own that could be used in cases like this. So that at some point in the future, public buildings/structures share a theme. Seattle does this with a couple colors and so does Vancouver. Vancouver even went so far as to define certain textures they wanted to use throughout the city.

Just thinking out loud. I have nothing bad to say about the project. It looks lovely. Just triggered a thought I've had several times.

makes sense and in general i think that is a very good idea ...



for this project the first thing i thought (and i would bet other golfers would/did ) is nice modern golf club house .. irrespective of location

[MikeLucky]

I agree with the point you're trying to make, but that is a little extreme to think that many tournaments will be held in a year. That's not a conservative approximation at all. That would leave zero ability for golfers who are not in the tournament to play. Hardly every do you call Lincoln for a tee time on a Saturday/Sunday and they say you can't get one because they are booked for a full 144 person tournament.

Actually, my scenario was ONLY for one 18... it would still leave the other side for regular play.

And, I agree that you never have to worry about getting on Lincoln Park for fear of a tournament... I think that's the point. lol. They NEED those tournaments to increase their revenue. They SHOULD be having those tournaments all the time... That's the WHOLE ADVANTAGE to have 36 holes to begin with. And, they think that this new facility will generate enough interest that they can do just that.

[Lafferty Daniel]

Actually, my scenario was ONLY for one 18... it would still leave the other side for regular play.

And, I agree that you never have to worry about getting on Lincoln Park for fear of a tournament... I think that's the point. lol. They NEED those tournaments to increase their revenue. They SHOULD be having those tournaments all the time... That's the WHOLE ADVANTAGE to have 36 holes to begin with. And, they think that this new facility will generate enough interest that they can do just that.

My main point was that yours was not a conservative estimate by any means. A course holding a 288 person tournament, twice a week, for 36 weeks is on the extreme side of the scale. Lincoln would do well to hold 20 tournaments a year.