New Apartment proposal at NW 36th and Tecumseh.

[ou48A]

There is a proposed for a new apartment complex at the SW corner of NW 36th and Tecumseh in Norman.

It still needs to be approved by the city of Norman but a very high percentage of people (several thousand) who live on the NW side of Norman strongly opposed this 3 story apartment complex on this property. There are rumors of opposition coming from some of Norman’s most influential and wealthy people.

Most people know how bad rental apartments of this type look after about 10 years.
If these were higher end condos they wouldn’t be facing nearly as much opposition IMHO.

[rcjunkie]

There is a proposed for a new apartment complex at the SW corner of NW 36th and Tecumseh in Norman.

It still needs to be approved by the city of Norman but a very high percentage of people (several thousand) who live on the NW side of Norman strongly opposed this 3 story apartment complex on this property. There are rumors of opposition coming from some of Norman’s most influential and wealthy people.

Most people know how bad rental apartments of this type look after about 10 years.
If these were higher end condos they wouldn’t be facing nearly as much opposition IMHO.

I know live at Tenkiller, and having lived West Norman for 15 years prior to moving, I'm not surprised by the opposition. Just more elitist, not in my backyard mentality. Sad

[kevinpate]

People often want to decide what purpose a piece of someone else's property will get put to when it is near their own property or might otherwise impact them.

All in all, seems like a not so bad place. Medical, retail and churchs on three direct sides. If I lived in the addition to the immediate west, I could think of worse scenarios for that piece of land.

[ou48A]

I know live at Tenkiller, and having lived West Norman for 15 years prior to moving, I'm not surprised by the opposition. Just more elitist, not in my backyard mentality. Sad

This will devalue home owner’s property values…
It’s hardly elitist to oppose something that is against your own interest.

[ou48A]

People often want to decide what purpose a piece of someone else's property will get put to when it is near their own property or might otherwise impact them.

All in all, seems like a not so bad place. Medical, retail and churchs on three direct sides. If I lived in the addition to the immediate west, I could think of worse scenarios for that piece of land.

Like what?


According to a very large land developer that I talked with virtually nothing worse could be approved by the city to devalue property in the surrounding areas. I am told that even the churches are against this.

[blangtang]

Like what?


According to a very large land developer that I talked with virtually nothing worse could be approved by the city to devalue property in the surrounding areas. I am told that even the churches are against this.

What's the current zoning of the parcel? Didn't that area used to be zoned agricultural until recently? IIRC, when something was proposed to the planning commission involving special use or a zoning change, they sent out notices to only those withing 300 ft of the land parcel. And then they tallied the protest rate from those parcel owners...

Also I heard from a large strip mall and commercial property developer than the continued approval of large scale tract home development in the vicinity is negatively affecting his commercial property values

I have trouble seeing how land near a large hospital with helicopter deliveries and ambulance sirens could be negatively impacted by a multifamily development. Those opposed to the proposed use of the property that they do not own should pool their money, buy the parcel and use the land as they wish.

Really the way the Norman city council works is if the planning commission doesn't object overwhelmingly out of the gate then the council members will pass the proposal. If its already out of the planning commission hearings and going to be heard by the council already its likely too late to stop it. Unless of course, like 300 nearby landowners show up and want to speak at the council meeting. Good luck with that on a Tuesday night! If so, then they might just table it or delay the thing. Usually the time has passed when the local residents who might be whipped into a frenzy get around to mobilizing. I haven't looked lately, so let me know if this is to be heard at the next council meeting or where it is in the process...

But who knows in Norman, after all the builders developers realtors and bankers run things so its whatever they want

On another thought, I used to have some junk stored in a nearby storage locker, over by 36th and Bart Conner Dr, down toward Rock Creek. That area had multi story spec office buildings sitting empty and for lease last fall. I have trouble seeing how that is any worse than multifamily. That whole area has a lot of undeveloped land, so the people who rent their houses from the banks should get used to more parcels filling in the next few years. JMHO

If they do build apartments in the area, they will be priced appropriately for the area, so that shouldn't negatively affect residential single family property values any more than all the foreclosures going on the last couple years have.

[Spartan]

This will not come to pass. Noooo way.

[ou48A]

What's the current zoning of the parcel? Didn't that area used to be zoned agricultural until recently? IIRC, when something was proposed to the planning commission involving special use or a zoning change, they sent out notices to only those withing 300 ft of the land parcel. And then they tallied the protest rate from those parcel owners...

Also I heard from a large strip mall and commercial property developer than the continued approval of large scale tract home development in the vicinity is negatively affecting his commercial property values

I have trouble seeing how land near a large hospital with helicopter deliveries and ambulance sirens could be negatively impacted by a multifamily development. Those opposed to the proposed use of the property that they do not own should pool their money, buy the parcel and use the land as they wish.

Really the way the Norman city council works is if the planning commission doesn't object overwhelmingly out of the gate then the council members will pass the proposal. If its already out of the planning commission hearings and going to be heard by the council already its likely too late to stop it. Unless of course, like 300 nearby landowners show up and want to speak at the council meeting. Good luck with that on a Tuesday night! If so, then they might just table it or delay the thing. Usually the time has passed when the local residents who might be whipped into a frenzy get around to mobilizing. I haven't looked lately, so let me know if this is to be heard at the next council meeting or where it is in the process...

But who knows in Norman, after all the builders developers realtors and bankers run things so its whatever they want

On another thought, I used to have some junk stored in a nearby storage locker, over by 36th and Bart Conner Dr, down toward Rock Creek. That area had multi story spec office buildings sitting empty and for lease last fall. I have trouble seeing how that is any worse than multifamily. That whole area has a lot of undeveloped land, so the people who rent their houses from the banks should get used to more parcels filling in the next few years. JMHO

If they do build apartments in the area, they will be priced appropriately for the area, so that shouldn't negatively affect residential single family property values any more than all the foreclosures going on the last couple years have.

It has been zoned for some type of commercial development but not apartments. Informed residents bought homes with the expectation that there would not be rent apartments at this location. Currently there is very little to no apartments in this area of Norman but the change in zoning is working its way through the city’s process.
I have heard no complaints about helicopter deliveries but the frequency of fire and ambulance sirens is said to be more noticeable.
There are apparently lot more than 300 nearby property owners who do not like this apartment project but the exact number and what they do remains to be seen but I expect to see a petition against this project.
The biggest issue I see is that very often apartments like this start looking run down after about 10 years. Then they start charging lower rents and that will drive property values down in the area.
We will just need to wait and see how this unfolds but at least one person with the city was report to have been very shocked at the amount and of the strong reaction so far received against this project with some of it apparently coming from people of wealth and influence…. so we will see…..

[Questor]

It's zoned commercial. Lawyers representing the land owner and the company that wants to build the apartment complex are petitioning the city to have it rezoned for medium/high density residential. Rcjunkie, it's not an issue of elitism, actually it is more of an issue of keeping the land zoned as it currently is and as it was when the additions around it were built. Also, this three-story complex, if built, will add something like 300 new dwellings to the area... when you look at the number of homes in the surrounding area, that means this proposal would increase the total number of living space in that immediate area by something like 50%. That will increase traffic dramatically. In addition, the area's elementary school is literally right down the street... I imagine a lot of parents are concerned for the safety of their children who walk to school. Also, I agree with ou48a who said there isn't a worse development possible with respect to area property values.

If the city of Norman allows this I am moving back to OKC on principal alone. Norman planning, or whatever they want to call it, is horrible. The ridiculous things that have been allowed to go on with UNP, a propensity of running away great new businesses with multitudes of red tape that as far as I can tell isn't worth what it is costing us, a horribly mismanaged HealthPlex development that ended with a Frankenstein building that has questionable aesthetic value, what I view as a lack of urban planning in areas of high density in town, a bizarre acceptance of high-density new developments scattered around the edges of the city in areas I would consider clearly low density, a council that doesn't even bother to pursue federal grant money for rail in a city with perhaps one of the largest pedestrian communities in this entire state, and a strange propensity for allowing trailer parks next to highly priced homes makes me think the city has no idea what it is doing.

It's an election year. Press the Norman Council members and their campaigning opponents to tell you, point blank, what side of the fence they are on with respect to this apartment complex and all the other bad planning that has been going on in town recently. Don't vote for them if you don't like their answers.

[BoulderSooner]

It's zoned commercial. Lawyers representing the land owner and the company that wants to build the apartment complex are petitioning the city to have it rezoned for medium/high density residential. Rcjunkie, it's not an issue of elitism, actually it is more of an issue of keeping the land zoned as it currently is and as it was when the additions around it were built. Also, this three-story complex, if built, will add something like 300 new dwellings to the area... when you look at the number of homes in the surrounding area, that means this proposal would increase the total number of living space in that immediate area by something like 50%. That will increase traffic dramatically. In addition, the area's elementary school is literally right down the street... I imagine a lot of parents are concerned for the safety of their children who walk to school. Also, I agree with ou48a who said there isn't a worse development possible with respect to area property values.

If the city of Norman allows this I am moving back to OKC on principal alone. Norman planning, or whatever they want to call it, is horrible. The ridiculous things that have been allowed to go on with UNP, a propensity of running away great new businesses with multitudes of red tape that as far as I can tell isn't worth what it is costing us, a horribly mismanaged HealthPlex development that ended with a Frankenstein building that has questionable aesthetic value, what I view as a lack of urban planning in areas of high density in town, a bizarre acceptance of high-density new developments scattered around the edges of the city in areas I would consider clearly low density, a council that doesn't even bother to pursue federal grant money for rail in a city with perhaps one of the largest pedestrian communities in this entire state, and a strange propensity for allowing trailer parks next to highly priced homes makes me think the city has no idea what it is doing.

It's an election year. Press the Norman Council members and their campaigning opponents to tell you, point blank, what side of the fence they are on with respect to this apartment complex and all the other bad planning that has been going on in town recently. Don't vote for them if you don't like their answers.

of course before the additions around it were built the entire area was zoned AA ...

[cas]

I live right by here and I hope it does not happen. The traffic is already bad enough. There is a new addition going in a mile down the road on 48th. Roosevelt Elementary can't handle much more growth in the area either and Norman doesn't put up new elementary schools everywhere like Moore does. Does the project have a name? Is it in the planning commision minutes? I would like to see the study to show the impact on the area.

[ou48A]

I live right by here and I hope it does not happen. The traffic is already bad enough. There is a new addition going in a mile down the road on 48th. Roosevelt Elementary can't handle much more growth in the area either and Norman doesn't put up new elementary schools everywhere like Moore does. Does the project have a name? Is it in the planning commision minutes? I would like to see the study to show the impact on the area.

While it’s an important issue to area residents and to the schools the city council supports diversity.
Eventually when these apartment start looking ratty as most do they will attract people who are not as successful as the residents in this area. In time this means a lower preforming elementary school.
But a very liberal city council views exposure to kids with lower abilities as being good.

Very few on the Norman city council really care how this impacts the nearby elementary school.

[ou48A]

It's zoned commercial. Lawyers representing the land owner and the company that wants to build the apartment complex are petitioning the city to have it rezoned for medium/high density residential. Rcjunkie, it's not an issue of elitism, actually it is more of an issue of keeping the land zoned as it currently is and as it was when the additions around it were built. Also, this three-story complex, if built, will add something like 300 new dwellings to the area... when you look at the number of homes in the surrounding area, that means this proposal would increase the total number of living space in that immediate area by something like 50%. That will increase traffic dramatically. In addition, the area's elementary school is literally right down the street... I imagine a lot of parents are concerned for the safety of their children who walk to school. Also, I agree with ou48a who said there isn't a worse development possible with respect to area property values.

If the city of Norman allows this I am moving back to OKC on principal alone. Norman planning, or whatever they want to call it, is horrible. The ridiculous things that have been allowed to go on with UNP, a propensity of running away great new businesses with multitudes of red tape that as far as I can tell isn't worth what it is costing us, a horribly mismanaged HealthPlex development that ended with a Frankenstein building that has questionable aesthetic value, what I view as a lack of urban planning in areas of high density in town, a bizarre acceptance of high-density new developments scattered around the edges of the city in areas I would consider clearly low density, a council that doesn't even bother to pursue federal grant money for rail in a city with perhaps one of the largest pedestrian communities in this entire state, and a strange propensity for allowing trailer parks next to highly priced homes makes me think the city has no idea what it is doing.

If these apartments are built I don’t know if I would move to another community or not but my wife and I along with 3 other nearby households are actively discussing it.

I would agree with you Questor that Norman’s planning has been very poor, in some respects it’s been going on for many decades. The city study’s issues to death but they don’t do nearly enough to solve problems and then too frequently they deviate from their stated planning….. Like allowing these apartments to be built.

[ou48A]

It's an election year. Press the Norman Council members and their campaigning opponents to tell you, point blank, what side of the fence they are on with respect to this apartment complex and all the other bad planning that has been going on in town recently. Don't vote for them if you don't like their answers.

As far as the Norman city council goes for this part of Norman (ward 8) we have a choice of voting for a guy who says he is against these apartments but he has apparently has taken money from some property developers. He is running against a known lesbian who teaches woman’s rights at OU and who apparently supports costly radical environmentally positions. I have been told by a well-connected source that she was handpicked by the Norman mayor who also teaches woman’s rights at OU and who once admitted that she had been a dues paying member of an organization that supported UN Agenda 21. This is a radical plan that would require us to give up control over many aspects of our lives and cost each tax payer big time money.

I am going to take a chance and vote for the guy who says he is against the apartments.

[jedicurt]

As far as the Norman city council goes for this part of Norman (ward 8) we have a choice of voting for a guy who says he is against these apartments but he has apparently has taken money from some property developers. He is running against a known lesbian who teaches woman’s rights at OU and who apparently supports costly radical environmentally positions. I have been told by a well-connected source that she was handpicked by the Norman mayor who also teaches woman’s rights at OU and who once admitted that she had been a dues paying member of an organization that supported UN Agenda 21. This is a radical plan that would require us to give up control over many aspects of our lives and cost each tax payer big time money.

I am going to take a chance and vote for the guy who says he is against the apartments.

i'm attempting to figure out how her being a lesbian has any reason to do with the rest... you keep talking about policy positions that involve spends lots of money for little return, and yet only mention her being a lesbian in a passing statement...

[blangtang]

Is this the project?

THE TECUMSEH PROJECT, generally
located south of Tecumseh Road at Astor Drive.

http://www.ci.norman.ok.us/node/348/...ommission/2012

its from the April 12 agenda

[rcjunkie]

It's zoned commercial. Lawyers representing the land owner and the company that wants to build the apartment complex are petitioning the city to have it rezoned for medium/high density residential. Rcjunkie, it's not an issue of elitism, actually it is more of an issue of keeping the land zoned as it currently is and as it was when the additions around it were built. Also, this three-story complex, if built, will add something like 300 new dwellings to the area... when you look at the number of homes in the surrounding area, that means this proposal would increase the total number of living space in that immediate area by something like 50%. That will increase traffic dramatically. In addition, the area's elementary school is literally right down the street... I imagine a lot of parents are concerned for the safety of their children who walk to school. Also, I agree with ou48a who said there isn't a worse development possible with respect to area property values.

If the city of Norman allows this I am moving back to OKC on principal alone. Norman planning, or whatever they want to call it, is horrible. The ridiculous things that have been allowed to go on with UNP, a propensity of running away great new businesses with multitudes of red tape that as far as I can tell isn't worth what it is costing us, a horribly mismanaged HealthPlex development that ended with a Frankenstein building that has questionable aesthetic value, what I view as a lack of urban planning in areas of high density in town, a bizarre acceptance of high-density new developments scattered around the edges of the city in areas I would consider clearly low density, a council that doesn't even bother to pursue federal grant money for rail in a city with perhaps one of the largest pedestrian communities in this entire state, and a strange propensity for allowing trailer parks next to highly priced homes makes me think the city has no idea what it is doing.

It's an election year. Press the Norman Council members and their campaigning opponents to tell you, point blank, what side of the fence they are on with respect to this apartment complex and all the other bad planning that has been going on in town recently. Don't vote for them if you don't like their answers.

This is zoned commercial, would you prefer a Walmart Super Center over an apartment come ?

[ou48A]

i'm attempting to figure out how her being a lesbian has any reason to do with the rest... you keep talking about policy positions that involve spends lots of money for little return, and yet only mention her being a lesbian in a passing statement...

I’m not saying she would be anything like Barney Frank. But when it comes to representing the view points of the majority of residents in this part of Norman odds are very high that most would not vote for her if this was widely known. As far as I know she has not publically acknowledged it. At the very least she should be open enough to make a public acknowledgment.
By all appearances she has every appearance of another extremely liberal person running for the Norman city council. Most of the liberals on the city council including the mayor have been far more interest in making Norman an inclusive community rather than making Norman a more prosperous community. Norman has a well-known reputation for being the most difficult place for a new business to open in Oklahoma and is said to be one of the more difficult places to open a business in the middle part of the country. We need a different brand of leadership.

[ou48A]

This is zoned commercial, would you prefer a Walmart Super Center over an apartment come ?

There isn’t nearly enough room for a Wal Mart supper center. Besides Wal Mart is building a small store about a mile south of this location. A grocery store is needed in this area, it’s in an ok location, and I haven’t heard any complaints about it.
As far as development goes medical office space or similar or condominiums like we have north of the Sooner mall would be ideal IMHO.

Its 16 acres and they are reserving 2 acres for who knows what? Probably something like a 7/11 or a Wall Greens.

[ou48A]

Is this the project?

THE TECUMSEH PROJECT, generally
located south of Tecumseh Road at Astor Drive.

http://www.ci.norman.ok.us/node/348/...ommission/2012

its from the April 12 agenda

No….this^ project is medical offices and such that I did not mind.
It is located about 1/8 of a mile west of the proposed apartment complex and just south of the Catholic Church.

[Questor]

This is zoned commercial, would you prefer a Walmart Super Center over an apartment come ?

I would prefer any commercial over any residential. A WMSC would not be my first choice, but if it closes at a reasonable time of day (e.g. not 24/7) I could deal with it. In my perfect world it would be additional medical buildings, upscale or fast casual dining like maybe a new Panera Bread, and so forth. In other words, how it is currently zoned.

[rcjunkie]

No….this^ project is medical offices and such that I did not mind.
It is located about 1/8 of a mile west of the proposed apartment complex and just south of the Catholic Church.

This office project was fought tooth and nail by several residents, planning commission denied the request, but the council approved it anyway.

[ou48A]

This office project was fought tooth and nail by several residents, planning commission denied the request, but the council approved it anyway.

Yes it was fought but this will be fought by many times that number of people and if what I am hearing is true by far more influential people. There may be some big talk going on right now by some people but with several attorneys and other experts in this field of work now on board clearly and without question the apartments will face dramatically larger and far more motivated organized opposition.
Will that make a difference who knows? We will just need to wait and see? It should be interesting!
But my gut feeling is that if the city officials approve this they will eventually come to regret their decision?

[ou48A]

It looks like the large amount of people who were against this and other projects may have gotten the city’s attention.

The Norman city planning commission suggested it was time for the city to have “a discussion of high-density development and where it would be appropriate in Norman.”

Click for full article
http://normantranscript.com/headline...zoning-request
NORMAN — City staff recommends high-density talks


Council member Carol Dillingham said the city needs to create policy to deal with emerging high-density requests and infills that can involve multi-story dwelling spaces.



City staff, in its notes on the request, recommended a discussion on high density. The planning commission unanimously recommended rejecting the zoning change and suggested it was time for the city to have “a discussion of high-density development and where it would be appropriate in Norman.”

[ou48A]

Several subdivisions containing thousands of people and Norman’s largest concentration of wealth who live near the proposed apartment complex have band together and are actively prepared to fight this proposal. They have several attorneys and industry experts who live in the area that have volunteered their free services.
As a result City officials may be having second thoughts about how they effect others?