A rather troubling article...what do you guys think?

[SoonerDave]

Nutshell: Two teenagers waiting outside the Harkins downtown for the parents to pick them up following a movie were arrested for violating curfew. Two minor problems: the officer arrested them before the curfew had yet started (by 20 minutes), and the parents even arrived before the curfew started only to *not* find their kids at the theater. The kids were dragged to a crisis/detention center and the parents were put through a bunch of nonsense before they were "allowed" to take their kids home.

http://www.newsok.com/article/3587106

The more I read this, the more I kept expecting there to be some sort of explanation why it happened, but it never came - something at least remotely resembling probable cause. As a parent of a teenager myself, the more I thought about this, the more infuriated it made me on behalf of the parents and kids involved.

I don't know that, as a parent, I could have kept my cool. Honestly, this situation infuriates me. I can't begin to think of how the police would rationalize this.

Thoughts?

[BDK]

The parents should just file a civil suit against the city. I'm sure a young lawyer would take this on a contingency basis.

[Brandon Rush]

do kids really need to be left alone in Bricktown, even if they are seeing a movie?! I think not, had something happened to these kids prior to their parents arrival, I am sure they would be equally pissed because they weren't protected...

Keep kids out of Bricktown, and I will stay out of Celebration Station/Mall/Chucky Cheeze

[adaniel]

do kids really need to be left alone in Bricktown, even if they are seeing a movie?! I think not, had something happened to these kids prior to their parents arrival, I am sure they would be equally pissed because they weren't protected...

Keep kids out of Bricktown, and I will stay out of Celebration Station/Mall/Chucky Cheeze

Thats your opinion, and you certainly have a right to it, but the law is the law. The kids are parents were following it. A lot of kids go to Harkins as its the only really nice theatre for people living in the inner city. So what if its Bricktown? You can have something go wrong just as easily in Edmond or Moore.

SoonerDave you are right, somebody owes someone an explantation or some lawyers need to get involved.

[betts]

I have no problem with teenagers being alone in Bricktown. When I was a kid, we were completely unsupervised almost everywhere and managed to survive. When I was 5, I was already riding my bike 5 or 6 blocks with my friends to go get icecream. I was in charge of my 3 year old sister when I wasn't off on my bike. If we cannot safely let a teenager go to a movie at the Harkins Theatre, then we've got a serious problem in Bricktown.

That policeman better be able to prove he spent his vacation the week prior in NYC and forgot to turn his watch back when he returned from his vacation. It's outrageous that kids were arrested for NOT breaking the law. Unless there are extenuating circumstances and the violation involved more than curfew, I don't know how one could defend that kind of behavior.

[SOONER8693]

do kids really need to be left alone in Bricktown, even if they are seeing a movie?! I think not, had something happened to these kids prior to their parents arrival, I am sure they would be equally pissed because they weren't protected...

Keep kids out of Bricktown, and I will stay out of Celebration Station/Mall/Chucky Cheeze

Agree.

[BBatesokc]

do kids really need to be left alone in Bricktown, even if they are seeing a movie?! I think not, had something happened to these kids prior to their parents arrival, I am sure they would be equally pissed because they weren't protected...

Keep kids out of Bricktown, and I will stay out of Celebration Station/Mall/Chucky Cheeze

Are you serious? They are 15 not 10. I was getting dropped off at movies with friends since age 13. I've dropped my son and his friends off numerous times to see a movie. Heck, when we weren't around to give him a ride to the mall he was allowed to take the city bus. Its called getting older, taking on responsibility and preparing your kid for the world.

In Bricktown they've got a nice theatre, ice cream shop, Sonic and a pizza parlor all right there together - sounds like a teenagers dream.

Maybe grouches like yourself should stay out of Bricktown. Sounds to me like they were being well behaved.

[BBatesokc]

This is yet another example of how the biggest power cops have is the power of desecration and how they choose to use it. I remember when my son stayed the night with a friend and they snuck out and teepee'd a friends house. A cop caught them. The cop could have created a major headache but instead called the parents. He told us our son mentioned several times he was going to be in alot of trouble by us. After speaking to us the cop believed him and let us come get him and take him home. No arrest, no juvenile detention, no tickets. Just good old fashion common sense and being a good public servant. Arresting kids not causing a problem outside a movie theatre in an entertainment district with parents on scene is an abuse of power, terrible PR and furthers the stereotype of the 'bully cop.'

[SoonerDave]

Agree.

Ridiculous perspective. Absolutely ridiculous. And your response is completely off-topic, because if you want to kick everyone under 18 out of Bricktown, that's an entirely different thread I'll let you or someone else start so they can be appropriately ridiculed for its sheer asininity. Bricktown isn't some culture club for the urban cognoscenti and chronically hip. But, as I said, that topic is for another thread.

These kids were legally in Bricktown. They weren't just following the spirit of the law, they were following the letter of it. They were leaving the theater to get to their parent's car, which the law allows them to do. They were leaving before the curfew was in effect, which they are expected to do. What more can ordinary citizens be expected to do?


I kept expecting to read that one of the kids smarted off to the cop, or had perhaps vandalized something, or had engaged in some sort of suspicious activity that had aroused the officer's suspicion. But there's nothing like that at all in the story - and if I've misread it, someone please point that out.

[SOUTHSIDE GIRL]

They were legally there. It was 20 minutes before curfew.......OCPD sould spend more time working the graffiti group that are
vandalizing personal property.

[Just the facts]

If they committed a crime while waiting for their parents would they be charged as adults?

[Steve]

There's more to this story.
Here's the deal: you have a situation that arises every couple of years in Bricktown where the "thug" element -a lot wannabe gang-bangers, etc., decide to make Bricktown their hangout. If it gets out of control, gunshots are fired, people get hurt, and the district itself is jeopardized (and that's why the curfew was started). The police have done a good job at getting level-headed, rational folks in charge out there who understand the concept of "nuance." Things have reportedly been getting out of hand again this summer. But with a new person in charge of the Bricktown substation, it appears that "nuance" was skipped over for "blindly throw the book at everyone" approach that leads to this latest development.
I agree with Brian, Bricktown is not a bad place for teens to hang out and have fun. But there is a time of night when that's no longer the case.
Parents, here's a tip for ya; Bricktown, with a healthy share of bars and clubs, is NOT an appropriate venue for youngsters to be out alone after 10 p.m. on a weekend night. Just saying....

[metro]

do kids really need to be left alone in Bricktown, even if they are seeing a movie?! I think not, had something happened to these kids prior to their parents arrival, I am sure they would be equally pissed because they weren't protected...

Keep kids out of Bricktown, and I will stay out of Celebration Station/Mall/Chucky Cheeze

You stay classy now

[SoonerDave]

There's more to this story.
Here's the deal: you have a situation that arises every couple of years in Bricktown where the "thug" element -a lot wannabe gang-bangers, etc., decide to make Bricktown their hangout. If it gets out of control, gunshots are fired, people get hurt, and the district itself is jeopardized (and that's why the curfew was started). The police have done a good job at getting level-headed, rational folks in charge out there who understand the concept of "nuance." Things have reportedly been getting out of hand again this summer. But with a new person in charge of the Bricktown substation, it appears that "nuance" was skipped over for "blindly throw the book at everyone" approach that leads to this latest development.
I agree with Brian, Bricktown is not a bad place for teens to hang out and have fun. But there is a time of night when that's no longer the case.
Parents, here's a tip for ya; Bricktown, with a healthy share of bars and clubs, is NOT an appropriate venue for youngsters to be out alone after 10 p.m. on a weekend night. Just saying....

But Steve, think about your connotation there - these weren't "kids out alone after 10 p.m." These were kids that were taken to a movie in the evening, well before any curfew or "gangbang wannabee" activity would be of concern. They were going back to their parents' cars, for heaven's sake. I appreciate the spirit of the curfew, but do we cede the biggest entertainment district in the city to the thugs at 8:00 to avoid "accidentally" being down there when the thug element (apparently) takes over?

I understand that police make mistakes, I understand the "thug" element, I even agree with the notion of the curfew. But surely you don't have to give a reasonably intelligent individual a paper-and-crayon explanation of "abuse of discretion."

I don't know who is running the "Bricktown substation," but I think they need to be gone. As in now. And maybe a semi-sincere apology would avert a lawsuit that I, for one, would not blame each and every parent involved for filing.

[kevinpate]

Steve, in this instance, the police appear to have fouled up.
After the paper article, and then tonight's comments by Capt. Stewart of public info, I think bbates and soonerdave have very compelling and spot on comments.

It's a good thing for me I wasn't one of the parents who went to pick up a child only to find my child was detained on a curfew violation ... BEFORE curfew. I haven't been in the best of moods lately, and I fear it would of shown.

[PennyQuilts]

I'd like to know the circumstances to justify this, if any. Absent a lot more, they surely shouldn't have been arrested.

As a parent, I would hope no one would lose it if this happened to their child - someone needs to be the adult in something like this and as difficult as it is, it is a terrific time for a parent to score big-time cool points to keep it together. Even the teens (who were likely pretty nervous) would have been impressed by that.

But to get back to the other concerns, notwithstanding the curfew, it probably isn't a good idea to leave your kids there, afoot, in the heat of the summer. I also ran wild as a kid and didn't get into any trouble but these ain't the good old days. It is one thing to be coming home from a friend's house just in time to beat curfew. It is sometimes a different thing to be out in a party area with a variety of age groups hanging around. But yeah, I read the part that they were just waiting for their parents to pick them up. I am not sure why the parents weren't waiting when they got out. Having the kids hang around waiting for their parents is a great opportunity for kids to get into trouble - not so much from breaking curfew so much as because kids that age tend to get into trouble if they have five minutes and the sun is down, assuming they have any ambition at all. Much more important, however, is that the sooner you pick up the kids, the sooner you can get back home and go to bed. There are curfews and then there are curfews.

[Steve]

I agree - and Citty makes it clear - they screwed up, curfew wasn't being violated, etc. I'm not defending the actions of these officers. There was a MAJOR screw up here. I'm giving you the behind the scenes situation, what might have prompted the police officers to be heavy handed, that made them go overboard. Not saying what they did what was right. But if the question is "what were they thinking?", well, here you go. They lost touch with reality, forgot the value of nuance (sadly, this is true for much of the world today)

[kevinpate]

I guess I got caught up in the after 10 comment. Drop a teen or group for a 7ish movie, tell them you will collect after movie and a sonic burger or pizza slice and they will almost always be picked up sometime after 10 pm but still before curfew. Not at all unreasonable for older teens.

[Snowman]

It seems like watching transformers would be punishment enough.

[RadicalModerate]

I wonder if the owners of that Major Movie Theater--that was the scene of the "crime"--might have anything to say about all this . . .

(Oh . . . And did you read the parts about the less-than-professional behavior of the staff at the Crisis Center? I guess if you pay minimum wage you get minimum talent. If someone screams, "We pay way MORE than minimum wage" then I'd have to ask why? At least if the money is directed to the current staff.)

[Larry OKC]

The 2 parents that were quoted in the story spoke at the end of Tuesday's Council meeting. They showed amazing restraint in their remarks. Obviously upset and demanded action but were polite/respectful throughout. They both stated that they supported the curfew and its intent. Police Chief was also there and responded briefly admitting that some mistakes were made, they were investigating the matter (2 of the 20 citations had been dismissed). One thing I noticed in the article was that "several" parents were mentioned, did more than the 2 that spoke at the end of the meeting also speak (I didn't see the first hour or so)? While up to 20 sets of parents would certainly be "several", not sure if 2 would qualify. But if what they are saying was true, they certainly seem to have valid complaints. Not just the OKCPD is at issue here, but also the folks that contract with the facility they were taken to and those employees behavior...allegations of parents being cursed at, not contacted in a timely matter (if at all), the release of the kids to their parents several hours after being taken in (6 am the next morning) etc. As Steve pointed out (the Police Chief mentioned it) that it was the City being proactive and NOT at the Mayor's/Council direction (as parents were told by the holding facility staff).

[MikeOKC]

I'm glad that Chief Citty took responsibility. I'm with Larry though, I'd be really upset with the people at the "Crisis Center" for basically pouring gasoline on the fire. Several of the parents heard the behavior toward the kids, the cursing, telling the kids they were lying, etc. The exact opposite of the kind of people who should be at a "Crisis Center."

[SoonerDave]

I'm glad that Chief Citty took responsibility. I'm with Larry though, I'd be really upset with the people at the "Crisis Center" for basically pouring gasoline on the fire. Several of the parents heard the behavior toward the kids, the cursing, telling the kids they were lying, etc. The exact opposite of the kind of people who should be at a "Crisis Center."

This. I think that's the astonishing "other half" of this story - the conduct of those individuals was horrendous. That it "poured gasoline on the fire" characterized the situation perfectly.

[Questor]

Curfew laws have always struck me as a horribly bad idea in a free society.

[RadicalModerate]

Me too. Especially when I was about 15 years old.
(But now I've been 15 almost 4 times. Almost. =)