OKC Not Alone In Downtown Investments

[G.Walker]

What Oklahoma City is doing now is great, but let's look outside the box, and visit what other cities are developing in their downtown area. Now I am not putting OKC up against major cities, like Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, or Charlotte. But cities that are close to OKC in metro size, values, and demographic.

Nashville (http://www.tennessean.com/section/PROJECTS07)

Salt Lake City (www.downtownrising.com)

Louisville (http://www.downtowndevelopmentcorp.o...8/Default.aspx)

Omaha (http://www.selectgreateromaha.com/om...20Brochure.pdf)

Memphis (http://www.downtownmemphis.com/devel...ning&go=Search)

Didn't realize Memphis had so much going on!

[Pete]

I've been thinking about creating a forum for other cities; what is going on there, projects we envy, areas where we can learn, etc.

Not just downtown, but planning initiatives, transportation options, suburban stuff, retail and the like.

What do you guys think?

[Pete]

I would add that as much as we like to congratulate ourselves and celebrate what is happening in OKC, in many ways we are still behind lots of cities our size and smaller.

Although this is a relatively new concept here, New Urbanism has been going strong for quite some time. I get so excited about Oklahoma City and then go to a place like Milwaukee (a little larger but not much) and end up profoundly depressed because we don't have 1/20th of what they already have in place. And of course, they are going great guns, building on an excellent foundation with much more in progress and on the planning boards.

The simple truth is that we are not operating in a vacuum; OKC competes directly with these other cities for employers, conventions, entrepreneurs, developers, investors, bank funding, federal dollars, tourists and people looking to relocate. And every single community has aggressive initiatives to improve their central cores.

We are still new to this game and have a lot to learn.

[G.Walker]

I've been thinking about creating a forum for other cities; what is going on there, projects we envy, areas where we can learn, etc.

Not just downtown, but planning initiatives, transportation options, suburban stuff, retail and the like.

What do you guys think?

Sounds good to me, I think the awareness of what other cities are doing can birth ideas here OKC...

[kevinpate]

I would find it interesting, but I travel so little I would be outside looking in.

[earlywinegareth]

If your'e standing still, you're falling behind...

[semisimple]

Almost every city in the country is undergoing some sort of downtown revitalization. What is unique about OKC is that it has maintained its momentum despite the economic downturn, whereas in most other cities redevelopment efforts have stalled significantly.

By the way, GWalker--Charlotte is not a "major city" and not even remotely close to the likes of Dallas or Atlanta. If anything Charlotte could be considered a peer city of OKC.

[ljbab728]

What Oklahoma City is doing now is great, but let's look outside the box, and visit what other cities are developing in their downtown area. Now I am not putting OKC up against major cities, like Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, or Charlotte. But cities that are close to OKC in metro size, values, and demographic.

Nashville (http://www.tennessean.com/section/PROJECTS07)

Salt Lake City (www.downtownrising.com)

Louisville (http://www.downtowndevelopmentcorp.o...8/Default.aspx)

Omaha (http://www.selectgreateromaha.com/om...20Brochure.pdf)

Memphis (http://www.downtownmemphis.com/devel...ning&go=Search)

Didn't realize Memphis had so much going on!

I found it interesting that Memphis is renovating their Pyramid Arena into a Bass Pro Shops. I wonder if Memphis is subsidizing them too.

[G.Walker]

Almost every city in the country is undergoing some sort of downtown revitalization. What is unique about OKC is that it has maintained its momentum despite the economic downturn, whereas in most other cities redevelopment efforts have stalled significantly.

By the way, GWalker--Charlotte is not a "major city" and not even remotely close to the likes of Dallas or Atlanta. If anything Charlotte could be considered a peer city of OKC.

Peer city to OKC, are you serious? Have you done your research on Charlotte, Charlotte has been one of the fastest growing cities in the nation for the past 20 years, their city population is around 750,000 and a metro area over 2 million! Not to mention they are home to and NBA AND NFL team. They are also the second largest banking center in the US behind New York. They have many modern skyscrapers and about 4 more under construction. Charlotte is about 20 years ahead of OKC in development, sorry

[SkyWestOKC]

Charlotte is also a major airline hub. About 1,400 operations a day. For reference DFW has 1,900. LAX has around 1,200. OKC has 375.

[semisimple]

Peer city to OKC, are you serious? Have you done your research on Charlotte, Charlotte has been one of the fastest growing cities in the nation for the past 20 years, their city population is around 750,000 and a metro area over 2 million! Not to mention they are home to and NBA AND NFL team. They are also the second largest banking center in the US behind New York. They have many modern skyscrapers and about 4 more under construction. Charlotte is about 20 years ahead of OKC in development, sorry

Done my "research?" LOL, I'm not the one calling it a "major city" and lumping it in the category of the likes of Dallas and Atlanta--have you actually been to Charlotte? In any case, here's just two bits of "research" that pretty much shred any notion you might have of Charlotte being a true major and, relative to those cities, much closer to being a peer city of OKC.

Charlotte -
MSA population, 2010: 1,758,038
GMP, 2010: $115 billion

OKC -
MSA population, 2010: 1,252,987
GMP, 2010: $58 billion

DFW -
MSA population, 2010: 6,371,773
GMP, 2010: $385 billion

End of discussion.

[dmoor82]

What's Austin's GDP?Around 100 Billion?

[Pete]

OKC is a Tier III city, Austin and Charlotte Tier II, Dallas & Atlanta Tier I.

OKC could easily make the jump to Tier II in the next couple of decades, but we have a ways to go.

[dmoor82]

OKC is a Tier III city, Austin and Charlotte Tier II, Dallas & Atlanta Tier I.

OKC could easily make the just to Tier II in the next couple of decades, but we have a ways to go.

If OKC is TierIII,then what is Tulsa or Omaha tiered at?I would think OKC,Tulsa and Omaha are all on TierIII but OKC is probably on the high end!

[dankrutka]

I like the idea of a forum for what other cities are doing.

I was just in Wichita for a job interview this week. Most of the town is pretty crappy, but I was really impressed with the Old Town area. It is a lot like Bricktown except no canal yet way more developed. There were probably 40-50 bars in the area. Tons of good restaurants. Lots of local coffee shops. Way more urban living options. No downtown skyline to speak of though. When I was looking at a really nice condo I told the lady I was from OKC and she said, "Oh. Then you'll like it here. It's not as developed as Bricktown, but it's developing..." It's good to know that Bricktown has developed a nice reputation, but I think Wichita's Bricktown equivalent was much nicer. It kind of made me sad. I don't think OKC has any area as well developed as Wichita's Old Town and the few miles around it... Maybe I'm wrong, but that was my perception. Thoughts?

[Pete]

I've said this many times, but it's a case of OKC trying to ride too many horses with one behind.

As soon as one urban area shows some life, another urban frontier is forged and we never seem to get to critical mass. However, I think Deep Deuce will soon be there, as will Midtown.

Off the top my head, here is a list of our urban districts and none are fully realized and most aren't even close: Bricktown, Lower Bricktown, Deep Duece, Film Row, Midtown, SOSA, The Paseo, Core 2 Shore, Uptown (23rd), Plaza District, Boathouse Row, Auto Alley, Classen/Asian District, Western Avenue, Arts District... And I'm sure I'm leaving some out!


Also, the impressions of an out-of-town visitor are often distorted... I just counted the number of eating and drinking places on the OT Wichita website and I came up with 31. Bricktown, believe it or not, lists 52.

[dankrutka]

You may be right. Maybe my perception was distorted. It just felt like Old Town was a lot more put together than Bricktown.

I've always said that the number one area where OKC falls behind other similarly sized cities is dense, authentic, entertainment districts. Bricktown is the best cluster of entertainment options (I'm primarily talking about bars, food), but it is very touristy and not very hip. Most locals don't go out in Bricktown much. 9th street and Automobile Alley, Deep Deuce, Midtown, Plaza District, Paseo, Western, and others all have potential, but offer few options. Tulsa, on the other hand, has several districts that cluster good options in Brookside, Cherry Street, Blue Dome, and Brady. I would take any of those four districts over what OKC has currently. Heck, campus corner in Norman might be as good as anywhere in the state. OKC has a lot going for it, but this is a weakness. Hopefully some of these districts can get some more options and keep their local flavor. OKC needs them.

[ljbab728]

You may be right. Maybe my perception was distorted. It just felt like Old Town was a lot more put together than Bricktown.

I've always said that the number one area where OKC falls behind other similarly sized cities is dense, authentic, entertainment districts. Bricktown is the best cluster of entertainment options (I'm primarily talking about bars, food), but it is very touristy and not very hip. Most locals don't go out in Bricktown much. 9th street and Automobile Alley, Deep Deuce, Midtown, Plaza District, Paseo, Western, and others all have potential, but offer few options. Tulsa, on the other hand, has several districts that cluster good options in Brookside, Cherry Street, Blue Dome, and Brady. I would take any of those four districts over what OKC has currently. Heck, campus corner in Norman might be as good as anywhere in the state. OKC has a lot going for it, but this is a weakness. Hopefully some of these districts can get some more options and keep their local flavor. OKC needs them.

The type of changes you're talking about take time and the fact that OKC has so many emerging districts at the same time dilutes what is possible in the short term in any one area. I think in 10 years you will find what you're looking for in many areas.

[Architect2010]

And the fact we have so many urban districts, we should be thankful. They give neighborhoods identity and promote localism and development, not to mention that when all is said and done, there will be no urban equivalent to OKC in this state.

On edit: Well with current trends and development anyways.

[G.Walker]

New 1,000 room CC hotel in Austin! Gosh Austin just doesn't stop with the high rises...

http://www.hospitalitybusinessnews.c...vention-center

[BG918]

New 1,000 room CC hotel in Austin! Gosh Austin just doesn't stop with the high rises...

http://www.hospitalitybusinessnews.c...vention-center

They are trying to play with the big boys in their own state: Dallas and Houston.

Austin also wants to solidify its status as the #2 city in the nation for the advanced technology sector (behind the Bay Area in CA). Just like Denver is working to be the #2 city for energy behind Houston, with an obvious focus on Rocky Mtn/Dakotas oil & gas production but also renewable energy.

What is OKC's niche? Natural gas? Aerospace?

[semisimple]

New 1,000 room CC hotel in Austin! Gosh Austin just doesn't stop with the high rises...

http://www.hospitalitybusinessnews.c...vention-center

That in addition to a 1,000+ room Marriott Marquis hotel, a 26-story boutique hotel, a 17-story Hyatt Place and two 350+ foot residential towers that have been announced or revived in the past few months...

[Pete]

Austin and Denver are the two biggest beneficiaries of California's continued economic woes. Lots of companies and individuals heading their direction.

Also, real estate development always finds an outlet. There are so many people involved in that industry that projects have to happen somewhere and when a certain segment (currently office space) and/or region (really, just about everywhere in the U.S.) suffers, the money merely shifts to somewhere else (apartments/hotels in various locales that have fared a little better in the recent climate). Plus, there has been a tremendous boom in lots of places outside North America: Dubai (which has obviously peaked), Moscow, China, Germany, etc.

The herd of developers and investors gets thinned a bit in these downturns, but usually not for long. Real Estate is in the blood of many and it's a sexy business that attracts many of the rich and powerful. You're seeing a few cities do pretty well now but in another 10 years you'll see another upswing in this cycle and there will be lots more activity just about everywhere.

[bluedogok]

That in addition to a 1,000+ room Marriott Marquis hotel, a 26-story boutique hotel, a 17-story Hyatt Place and two 350+ foot residential towers that have been announced or revived in the past few months...

There are some other office projects in the works as well.

[BG918]

There are some other office projects in the works as well.

Austin is a good place to be right now if you're an architect or in the construction business. I work for a construction company and have noticed Dallas, Houston and OKC are also doing fairly well but Austin is really booming. Denver is starting to heat up but isn't quite there yet, possibly later this year or early next year. Lots of stalled projects there that could start up again.