Will Rogers Development Discussion 2011

[SkyWestOKC]

Thought it would be better to open a separate discussion of the developmental projects/issues underway in this thread. That way the "Air Service" thread can remain just that, a discussion of the air service.

Pete, I understand this could be a thread for the Suburban Development forum, but I would like to request this remain in the Transportation forum, as it is a sub-topic of transportation within the metro.

[SkyWestOKC]

Progress update from June 8th, 2011.

Atlantic Aviation Hangar/FBO and ARINC new hangar:



Atlantic Aviation Hangar/FBO:






ARINC Hangar:








Shuttle Bus/Taxi Cab/Courtesy Car Staging Area (North overflow lot on the north side of Amelia Earhart):

[bombermwc]

Shuttle staging area? Is that where they park at night or something? Man i wish they would have put a tram in instead of the stupid giddeyups.

[Jesseda]

There will be a a manned booth over in the shuttle taxi area, it is not for giddyup vans, its for airport express, taxi's etc... also it would be nice to put a tram, but with so many parking lots, a tram would cost way to much to go around to all those places.

[SkyWestOKC]

Shuttle staging area? Is that where they park at night or something? Man i wish they would have put a tram in instead of the stupid giddeyups.

Here: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...941#post432941

A tram would be very expensive to cover the different parking lots. It probably would not add much benefit to the current parking situation. The terminal roadways, parking shuttles, etc. are not crowded, there wouldn't be that much advantage to having it. We need to face the fact that we aren't an extremely busy airport, we have average passenger numbers for a city our size (actually below average to a lot of similar cities). It will probably be a long while before we see a parking shuttle run by rail -- if ever.

[Pete]

On the airport trust website I found a document titled Airport Construction Project Progress Report.

Of note:

Phase III Terminal Expansion study & environmental assessment (east concourse with at least 8 gates and additional retail/restaurants). Plan/study is complete at total cost of $1,350,000.

Checked Baggage Inspection System. $24,822,791 preliminary design complete -- completion July 2014.

Consolidated Rental Car Facility. $37,000,000. Presentations May 2011.

Parking Garage A&B Renovations. $4,000,000 bids to be let 6/28/11.

CCTV for TSA Secured areas: $4,100,000 to be complete 9/25/11.

[ChargerAg]

4 million for a CCTV? that seems like a crazy high number.

[Pete]

I hope that means they are reworking the TSA areas in general. They were an afterthought because construction had already started before 9/11.

Also, if we ever get to Phase III of the terminal plan, I really hope they do something with the way arriving and departing passengers are all dumped into the same area before the arrivals go down escalators to the lower level. Not only is the flow a mess, it means those waiting for arrivals in the terminal hang around in the upper concourse area instead of downstairs. It's a mess and was a huge design flaw considering the entire terminal was just recently reworked.

[SkyWestOKC]

1) Tomorrow the Airport Trust will receive the Phase III Terminal Expansion Plan.

2) Atlantic Aviation opened up today. A soft opening anyway. Photos here: http://www.atlanticaviation.com/Locations/OKC.aspx

3) Rumor is when United and Continental combine, the will take Gates 3,5,9. Leaving the airport with Gate 10 and a total of 5 unused gates (!). There is a possibility they will take Gate 1 or Gate 11 in the future, but that is more rumor on top of the rumor. The reason for leaving Gate 10 for sure is so they will not have other airlines blocking them in, the alley on the north side of the concourse will be theirs. A lot of times Southwest will block flights from getting to/from Gate 10 when Southwest pushes out.

4) Portland Ave. construction has received the NTP from city public works, estimated completion is Sept 30, 2013. Two years to do a 2 1/2 mile 4 lane road....amazing. What makes it amazing is the land is farmland, there is hardly any site prep or clearing required.

[SkyWestOKC]

Here is the Phase III Terminal Expansion plan presentation.

It addresses the issues Pete brought up about congestion near the escalator cores at the security exits. Also, the East Concourse would be expanded to 3 gates at first, then the remaining 6 would be added at a later date. This also provides for Customs, so international flights would be possible. Hopefully the airport goes ahead with the Phase 1,1A plans, as recommended by the study.

http://okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?c...fileid=1252695

[Pete]

Thanks for sharing that.

But in all options, they still have "greeter lounges" on the same level as the ticket counters and security check-in.

They need to direct arriving passengers down to the lower lever BEFORE they exit security. That way people will wait downstairs, which is the whole point of separating the arrival/departure levels. I can't believe they still aren't considering this.

The two down escalators/stairs (circled below in the recommended Option 2a) should be moved to the south before you exit the secured area. Doing this would also allow for a couple extra ticket counters without expanding the terminal building:

[SkyWestOKC]

We're in complete agreement, Pete. But out of the options considered, the option that was selected (2a) was the best in regards to flow, and separation. The security checkpoints are at least out of the way of the greeter areas and the greeter areas are expanded, so it's not as congested. We do agree that they should be separated by levels, but that just wasn't in any of the options, as you point out, surprising.

[redrunner]

I've never understood why there's always mass hoards of people waiting for arriving passengers as soon as you exit in front of the escalators. I don't think I can I say that I've seen this at other major airports. Usually people wait at baggage claim or a more open area. It's like mom, dad, meemaw and papaw are waiting for little Billy to get back from his first airplane ride.

[OUman]

3) Rumor is when United and Continental combine, the will take Gates 3,5,9. Leaving the airport with Gate 10 and a total of 5 unused gates (!). There is a possibility they will take Gate 1 or Gate 11 in the future, but that is more rumor on top of the rumor. The reason for leaving Gate 10 for sure is so they will not have other airlines blocking them in, the alley on the north side of the concourse will be theirs. A lot of times Southwest will block flights from getting to/from Gate 10 when Southwest pushes out.

I've seen Southwest crews push aircraft back pretty much in a straight line, the ramp is wide enough to where if a WN 737 was pushed back right on the taxiway line next to the terminal, an RJ of United/Continental Express could easily taxi by it. On the other hand, Gate 1 would be better for possible 757 or other large(r) mainliner ops because Gate 11, like you have pointed out before, is tricky to push back from.

I've never understood why there's always mass hoards of people waiting for arriving passengers as soon as you exit in front of the escalators. I don't think I can I say that I've seen this at other major airports. Usually people wait at baggage claim or a more open area. It's like mom, dad, meemaw and papaw are waiting for little Billy to get back from his first airplane ride.

I haven't seen that happen as much, maybe I'm lucky.

[ljbab728]

I've never understood why there's always mass hoards of people waiting for arriving passengers as soon as you exit in front of the escalators. I don't think I can I say that I've seen this at other major airports. Usually people wait at baggage claim or a more open area. It's like mom, dad, meemaw and papaw are waiting for little Billy to get back from his first airplane ride.

I don't think that's a major issue except for the possible congestion. Many passengers now don't check luggage because of the cost and have no need to go to baggage claim before exiting. Unless you have prearranged a specific meeting point it's possible you might miss the person you're meeting when they arrive if you don't wait in that area. I'm not saying it's the best option just that it's a more reasonable approach than you suggest.

[HOT ROD]

then why have arrivals downstairs?

arrivals is downstairs, it doesn't matter whether you have luggage or not, you're supposed to egress the airport downstairs.

[Pete]

I've never understood why there's always mass hoards of people waiting for arriving passengers as soon as you exit in front of the escalators. I don't think I can I say that I've seen this at other major airports. Usually people wait at baggage claim or a more open area.

It's completely due to the atrocious planning and terminal layout. Now they are going to spend millions more and still not address it?

Beyond making the ticketing/departure area overly congested, it also gives arriving passengers a bad first impression of OKC. It looks like exactly what it is: a badly planned airport with everybody jammed into the one area you are trying to navigate just to get out.

Every time I fly in there I shake my head at the idiocy of it all.

[ljbab728]

then why have arrivals downstairs?

arrivals is downstairs, it doesn't matter whether you have luggage or not, you're supposed to egress the airport downstairs.

Hot Rod, egress means when you're leaving the building not where you meet greeters. As stated before, the problem is not with the people using the airport. They are doing what seems normal and natural based on the layout. The problem is in how it was planned.

[HOT ROD]

that was my point, your supposed egress from downstairs, at arrivals. I never said anything about greeters.

As to the wrwa plan, hopefully it could be revised so that the escalators are moved back but if choice 2a is the one then it may not matter. But i think it should at least be an option. ...

[DelCamino]

To SkyWest or others at WRWA: Do you have any information concerning the new 5-level parking garage and if it is going to be painted or marked in any way? I think it looks pretty bad as it is now - just pure, straight concrete with no color or signage.

[SkyWestOKC]

Not that I have seen. The old 5-story and 2-story (short term, rental cars) are about to undergo renovations though.

[kevinpate]

I've never understood why there's always mass hoards of people waiting for arriving passengers as soon as you exit in front of the escalators. I don't think I can I say that I've seen this at other major airports. Usually people wait at baggage claim or a more open area. It's like mom, dad, meemaw and papaw are waiting for little Billy to get back from his first airplane ride.

I canna speak for others but for us it comes down to this.

(a) When our elder son flies home alone, he travels carryon only. We wave, momma gets a hug, and we are car bound. Being down in the baggage area would simply cut into our limited time and it also would add to the baggage area's oft crowded condition. No thanks.

(b) When daughter flies home, it's with a grandbaby, and now there are two. SiL's military career gig means he doesn't always get to come with. So, in addition to seeing the world's most excellent grandbabies as early as possible, we are there to lend a helping hand to our daughter and grandchildren at the first available opportunity.

In days gone by, and they were not so long ago really, folks could meet flights well inside today's perimeter. We can't turn back time, but we don't have to voluntarily exile ourselves even further beyond the, mainly for show, security perimeters in place today. We don't crowd down into the ill designed bottleneck, but yeah, we arrive early enough to assure we'll be in plain sight and render assistance at first opportunity (and collect precious hugs), as do the other gp's when it is their honor to be on hand for the airport meet/greet.

I suppose that's our primary congestion reduction contribution. We rarely have both sets of GPs present at the same time.

[Jesseda]

As of right now nothing is in the works about painting or sinage in the new garage, the old garage(Garage B) is getting a face lift so to speak soon. I will report your concerns about the new Garage (Garage C)

[ljbab728]

that was my point, your supposed egress from downstairs, at arrivals. I never said anything about greeters.

As to the wrwa plan, hopefully it could be revised so that the escalators are moved back but if choice 2a is the one then it may not matter. But i think it should at least be an option. ...

I assume you were responding to my post in defense of people who greet passengers on the departure level when you said "then why have arrivals downstairs?" I haven't heard anyone mention any problems with people want to egress the airport on the departure level.

[DelCamino]

Here is the Phase III Terminal Expansion plan presentation....

http://okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?c...fileid=1252695

SkyWest, or others: do you know the outcome of the presentation of the expansion plan to the Airport Trust last June? I wonder if they 'received' the study or did they select an option with plans proceed in the near future? I'm guessing the decision is still a ways off...............