State of the Forum, May 2011

[Pete]

I've always taken a somewhat laissez-faire attitude on the site, because 1) there is a fine line between moderation and censorship; 2) once you start getting heavy-handed it's a tremendous time commitment that is close to impossible to maintain; 3) top-down authority tends to cause others to take less ownership; and 4) we are all adults and realize the Internet, by nature, is a rough place.

However, I do feel a personal responsibility to those that use this site and to Oklahoma City in general. I've always wanted this site to be for everyone that lives in or is interested in OKC, not just the those following development or any other specialized category or mindset. By trying to keep things broad, you draw in the biggest possible audience and the bottom line is that forums are nothing unless you get people to participate.

I'm proud of the fact the site has become arguably the best location for pretty much everything that is happening in the community. Just try and stump this board with any sort of random question! The collective resources we have here are pretty amazing. I'm also proud that smaller communities have sprung up – like the Coits group from the Nostalgia section – and that people are increasingly networking in person due to connection and communication here. It also seems to be happening in a way that promotes community activism.

But – and you just knew there was a but coming! – I'd like to make an appeal for everyone to try and remain as civil as possible and think in terms of how all of our posting and behavior reflects on Oklahoma City and the entire state. With increased size and visibility comes increased responsibility!

We have never and will never censor someone due to their opinion – but how it's expressed is a different matter. Here's a rule of thumb: Debate the post, not the poster. There is never, ever any reason to call someone out personally or even use the word “you”. Typically, those of opposing viewpoints will square off in a “you are always blah, blah” or “that is a stupid comment and you have no idea what you are talking about”. That is WAY too personal and there is no place for it on the forum or really in healthy debate.

I've said this before, but it's one of the reasons I changed my screen name to my real name; I want to make sure I would never say anything here that I wouldn't stand behind in a face-to-face conversation. I try to post with that standard in mind and I'd ask all of you to do the same. On the anonymous Internet, people get in the habit of often getting down-right rude where they would never, ever do that in person. I know this, because I've met a bunch of people from this and other sites, and they are always incredibly nice.

BTW, this applies to those that post here about businesses and other entities. There is a way to provide feedback without it turning into a mean-spirited lynching. The best way is to start with the positive then provide specific details of areas that may require attention. Isn't that what you'd appreciate if it was your business or job?


Above all, OKCTalk is an on-line COMMUNITY. And as a part of it, I'd like to ask all of you to help make/keep it the type of place you would want it to be.


Thanks and happy posting!

Pete

[Jim Kyle]

Well said, Pete. I ran a community on CompuServe for 15 years, and followed the same no-censorship policy. I found it more effective to let the regular members call down anyone who got too personal, and in that whole time only locked out four individuals -- one was a mental-case stalker and the other three were a team that specialized in disrupting communities. And as you can see I agree fully with your use-real-name suggestion!

[Spartan]

Hey Pete, I feel like a bit of the hostility is partly my doing, because sometimes I can be very direct. Please accept my apologies, and I'll try and tone it down, maybe even act nicer toward the very few people with vendettas on this site. :-) < smiley face

I agree that it's important because some legitimate people not only read this website, as we know, but also post on this website. Many developers, restaurant owners, neighborhood leaders, and so on. This website has become daily reading for many. Just today a developer from Tulsa posted in response to my question about the Better Block Project. I agree that we should at least be civil for the sake of making a good impression.

[Pete]

Thanks, Spartan.

Also, we want to be able to attract civic leaders, press, politicians, members of the business community, etc. I think a lot of them already check this site, but everyone would benefit by their active participation -- as well as more of the general citizenry.

I'm sure quite a few refrain from posting just because they don't want the backlash. God Bless Steve Lackmeyer for putting himself out there, taking the heat directed largely due to his employer (and often unfair, IMO), and continuing to participate and share information. Given the way he is often treated by handful of people here, it's amazing he has stayed active. Just one example but there are many others.


People are definitely reading (I get notes from notables all the time) but it would be way better for everyone if those that came here felt like they could post without being attacked. Or treated like morons just because they don't spent tons of time here and read every post.

[okcisok]

Pete, first of all, thank you for all of your time and effort. I was a regular reader of this site long before I ever replied to anything. This is a great place to learn and educate (and have some fun) with OKC as the common ground. I think some of us who post here should count to 10 before they respond with their reply. If I ever want to know anything about OKC this is my first stop. Keep up the good work.

[HewenttoJared]

If you want to encourage civility you might take the "Enter at your own risk" banner off the politics forum : )

[MikeOKC]

I agree that it's important because some legitimate people not only read this website, as we know, but also post on this website. Many developers, restaurant owners, neighborhood leaders, and so on. This website has become daily reading for many. Just today a developer from Tulsa posted in response to my question about the Better Block Project. I agree that we should at least be civil for the sake of making a good impression.

I don't think that's what you meant. Not only people of influence within our sphere of interest are "legitimate." We're all citizens and we're all legitimate.

[SoonerDave]

Applause, Pete. I will be among the first to admit that my posting here in the last, oh, year or so has dropped fairly significantly for precisely the reasons you outline.

[venture]

Pete...Great post. I wanted to comment on this part with a thought (yes I'm a little slow in catching up on reading everything here)...

I've said this before, but it's one of the reasons I changed my screen name to my real name; I want to make sure I would never say anything here that I wouldn't stand behind in a face-to-face conversation. I try to post with that standard in mind and I'd ask all of you to do the same. On the anonymous Internet, people get in the habit of often getting down-right rude where they would never, ever do that in person. I know this, because I've met a bunch of people from this and other sites, and they are always incredibly nice.

I love this comment. It is something that many sites I frequent have done because, just as you described, people get flat out rude unless they are held to what they say here offline. I think the post is very timely, but not sure if all the correct people are reading it. We all know what is happening next year and how down right nasty sections of this forum got 4 years ago. Considering how some of the threads in the Politics section are already getting heated, where you (or Mmm) have needed to step in. How are you going to keep that section of the site from becoming an all out flame war between those that instigate (the trolls of the site) and those that take the bait (who are just as much at fault)?

Would you consider a different level of membership that required people to utilize their real names on the forum in order to post in that section? That might make people that normally have nothing better to do than get under the skin of fellow members think twice about what they are doing. I'm not sure on the right process on how to verify identities, short of making the rank require at least a $1 donation so you can name verify them through Paypal or Google Checkout. Another option might be seeing about linking accounts through Facebook, if that is even possible (haven't used vBulletin on the admin side, always just phpBB as the core).

I totally agree with you that there is a fine line in proper/effective moderation and outright censorship. Some discussions will get heated of course, but as soon as people more to start attacking the poster or posting for the sake of flame baiting/trolling and other non-constructive posts...the hammer needs to come down. Many of the posts in the politics section have way too many posts that are less than 10 words which provide absolutely no benefit to the discussion (usually).

I know you don't need the extra work, but like all most of us here, we appreciate all the hard work you do put in (and Mmm)...just worried about what is to come. If people come here looking for information and then find sections of the forum (it isn't always constrained to just the Politics area) where people are just down right ugly...that reflects poorly on all of us. Maybe something that would help, and go a long way with this, is a more effective post rating system. Right now it is just a thread ranking system, but has no impact on anything (from what I can tell). I ran across this --- http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=170419 --- which adds what I'm thinking of. I'm not sure if you would be able to get something like that for here. It would add the simple "Thumbs Up/Thumbs Down" system for each post. Each user can then vote on the individual posts. They can also go into their own settings so once a post is below a certain threshold, it gets buried. I believe it also puts on a post rating for individual users so they will start to show a "quality" score on how many quality posts they contribute. It also blocks people from posting short posts that provide little to any worthy comments to a discussion.

Another option I found: http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=173432

Looks like that one auto-locks threads that get voted down a lot.

Might be something to look into. With on you and Mmm around, I feel the workload is going to increase a bit on the moderation side over the next 12-18 months that some sort of "self policing" would be a welcome feature.

Thanks again for keeping this site up!

[rag451]

I don't have a whole lot of time to spend on the Internet, but I do enjoy looking in on this forum frequently. The times I have asked questions, even dumb ones, several have stepped forward to offer advice or ask me for more information. Having spent time years ago on other Internet forums and seeing them devolve into mindless foodfights of equally mindless drivel, this place is a breath of fresh air.

And no, that's not brown on my nose, it's a freckle!