Urban centers draw more young, educated adults.....except in Okc!

[okclee]

Educated 20- and 30-somethings are flocking to live downtown in the USA's largest cities, even urban centers that are losing population.......

According to the USA today this is NOT happening here in Okc!!

Read this report and see the chart.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ess01_ST_N.htm

[Richard at Remax]

Only thing I would argue is that our supply and inventory is way low compared to most of those cities. We only have one "high rise" living in regency tower. Give it 5 years and it will increase. I live in Edgemere Park and its all full of young people, but i guess this is the core they are talking about.

[mcca7596]

Only Birmingham and New Orleans had smaller growth, with New Orleans losing young people understandably.

[Kerry]

Downtown OKC is the fastest growing residentail area in the State of Oklahoma. Give it a few more years.

[Spartan]

Downtown OKC is the fastest growing residentail area in the State of Oklahoma. Give it a few more years.

Let me have some of what you're smoking!

It COULD have been...

[Kerry]

Let me have some of what you're smoking!

It COULD have been...

It is in the US census. There is a thread on it somewhere. The census district that covers downtown OKC has the highest growth rate in the state.

[G.Walker]

I fit the demographic, I am 30 years old, have a Masters In Public Administration, and I live in Moore (Rock Creek Estates). I could have lived in downtown OKC, but there is no housing downtown that I like. But I do work in the city, but why would I live downtown, when I can have a nice home, with front and backyard, and land in the suburbs, with all the amenities I need for the same price? Downtown doesn't have anything to attract my demographic right now, and it only takes me 15mins to get to work.

[BG918]

I fit the demographic, I am 30 years old, have a Masters In Public Administration, and I live in Moore (Rock Creek States). I could have lived in downtown OKC, but there is no housing downtown that I like. But I do work in the city, but why would I live downtown, when I can have a nice home, with front and backyard, and land in the suburbs, with all the amenities I need for the same price? Downtown doesn't have anything to attract my demographic right now, and it only takes me 15mins to get to work.

There are plenty of people + / - your age that do not want a house with a front and backyard, or any land for that matter. I'm one that could care less about having "land" but also do not want a condo or apartment. There are not enough options for townhomes in the inner city right now. With a townhome you get the benefits of a house (larger floor plan, garage) without the downsides (yard to maintain). Currently there is demand but no supply.

[G.Walker]

Before I moved to Moore, I lived in Norman 12 years, and Norman is a lot more dense than people think. After living in the dorms, and apartments/condos with roommates, the last thing I wanted was to live in another apartment. The cost of living downtown is too high, for downtown not offer any amenities to the young/educated demographic.

[stlokc]

I think at least some of this can be explained by two factors:
1. In Oklahoma, people tend to marry and start families younger than in more urban areas.
2. In Oklahoma, the salaries rend to be lower.
Don't get me wrong, there are thousands of exceptions. But anecdotally, it seems that by the time a lot of young adults in OKC are in a position to buy something or pay a substantial amount of rent, they are already thinking kids/schools. In other parts of the country, there's more of a "gap" period, say 28 to 35, when young adults have the means to live well and are still focused on other things besides yards, suburban "amenities." I'm not sure OKC is ever going to have the armies of tens of thousands of wealthy, educated young urbanites without kids. At least not for a while.

[G.Walker]

stlokc-you hit it right on! I do have a family also, and that was a major factor, of the suburban lifestyle. However, before I got married, I still wasn't attracted to downtown. I mean there is no park for me to relax in, no leisure activities (basketball, soccer, etc.) Not a reasonable gym, grocery store, anything. Downtown OKC right now is catered to entertainment, and not actual everyday living.

Downtown OKC has Watonga living amenities, with an OKC cost of living, lol.

[okclee]

stlokc............did you see where St. Louis placed in percentage change?

[Kerry]

There are plenty of people + / - your age that do not want a house with a front and backyard, or any land for that matter. I'm one that could care less about having "land" but also do not want a condo or apartment. There are not enough options for townhomes in the inner city right now. With a townhome you get the benefits of a house (larger floor plan, garage) without the downsides (yard to maintain). Currently there is demand but no supply.

This is what I would like as well. A three story town/row house with a garage accessed via an alley and maybe a small backyard to let the dog loose in.



I would love to live in something like Notthing Hill London. I was hoping that is what Core 2 Shore was going to be but the rendering all show single family homes.

(no single picture does it justice so you will need to look it up yourself)

[earlywinegareth]

Totally agree with BG918...demand is there, but the supply for this demographic is lacking. I worked with several young engineers who had a difficult time finding something reasonably priced downtown. They found it, but I was shocked at their rent. They can afford it as long as they stay single and aren't trying to save up for a down payment.

[gracefor24]

[QUOTE=G.Walker;417897]stlokc-you hit it right on! I do have a family also, and that was a major factor, of the suburban lifestyle. However, before I got married, I still wasn't attracted to downtown. I mean there is no park for me to relax in, no leisure activities (basketball, soccer, etc.) Not a reasonable gym, grocery store, anything. Downtown OKC right now is catered to entertainment, and not actual everyday living.

Downtown OKC has Watonga living amenities, with an OKC cost of living, lol.[/]

This is simply untrue. I live near downtown and within walking distance of two parks, there is the downtown and Midtown Y, homeland is 5 minutes away and Walmart 10 minutes. I am within walking distance of 3 great coffee shops and numerous gret restaurants.

People who complain about options downtown are glass half empty people, IMO. We're not Chicago/Portland/Seattle but our urban lifestyle has improved dramatically!

[stlokc]

G. Walker, thanks for responding. You're 30 and already have a family which is what I was thinking when I made my comments. Most of my friends weren't even married at 30. That's neither good nor bad, just different.
As far as "amenities," everybody is going to define that differently, which is why the well-rounded region would have parks and basketball courts and golf courses AND urban lofts and the ability to roam without a car. We'll get there someday.
I did see that STL grew it's inner core rapidly. Not surprising. They are focusing like a laser beam on it. Lots of other city neighborhoods are not getting the same treatment, hence the overall population loss. Another topic.

[adaniel]

I think at least some of this can be explained by two factors:
1. In Oklahoma, people tend to marry and start families younger than in more urban areas.
2. In Oklahoma, the salaries rend to be lower.
Don't get me wrong, there are thousands of exceptions. But anecdotally, it seems that by the time a lot of young adults in OKC are in a position to buy something or pay a substantial amount of rent, they are already thinking kids/schools. In other parts of the country, there's more of a "gap" period, say 28 to 35, when young adults have the means to live well and are still focused on other things besides yards, suburban "amenities." I'm not sure OKC is ever going to have the armies of tens of thousands of wealthy, educated young urbanites without kids. At least not for a while.

This is very true, and I'll expand on the 2nd one. At the risk that I'm sounding like I'm a huge snob, there is a culture in OK of putting value over substance. Look at the amount of Wal Marts, Family Dollar's, etc. in this town, compared to the struggles it takes to lure any sort of upscale retailers and shops here.

As long as Oklahoma languishes at 45-46 out of 50 in household income it may be a continuing struggle to turn this around. Most people in OKC who have amassed the kind of wealth to look at $1000/month apartments probably are married with kids, and are probably going to bail to the suburbs.

Does anybody think that any of the relocating Continental employees are going to look at dowtown, midtown, or even a in-town neighborhood, or are they going to fly out to Blanchard, Piedmont, Choctaw, etc.?

[stlokc]

ADaniel- You are not a snob, you're exactly right. The civic boosters like to tout OKC's lower cost of living but the biggest chunk of that has to do with real estate. I have not found that the prices of other goods and services are that much cheaper in OKC. Plus, the tremendous sprawl means that OKC is disproportionately harmed by high gas prices. This means the average OKC resident is a value shopper above all else. (Again, with exceptions). There's just not as much disposable income. Particularly among the 28 year olds that already have kids. When you're stretching the pocketbook, the trendy dinners, concert tickets, higher-end consumer goods are the first things to go.

[mcca7596]

Where do you think the tendency to have families young comes from though ultimately?

Conservative ethos that say you aren't contributing without taking care of others, making kids grow up too fast, poor birth control practices...?

At the risk that I'm sounding like I'm a huge snob, there is a culture in OK of putting value over substance. Look at the amount of Wal Marts, Family Dollar's, etc. in this town, compared to the struggles it takes to lure any sort of upscale retailers and shops here.

I agree, although ironically, I feel like there is more of a rat race here among the lower and middle classes; people try too hard. It just seems like in other places I've been the rat race is more confined to the upper classes and average people are more "live and let live". Just an observation...

[G.Walker]

The problem with downtown residential developers is that they charge too much. I have friend who I work with, who was looking at Deep Deuce apartments, and was astonished at the price for what she was getting, when she could get more square footage, on NW side of town, and rent would be less. Developers are charging these out right high prices for what? Location? there is nothing downtown that attracts young people to live there at this point, being in walking distance to Bricktown, and walking home drunk at 3am gets old after a while.

[MikeOKC]

I've written before of my wish to be downtown, but ultimately chose Founders because the market isn't there for purchase in downtown Oklahoma City at the level of Founders Tower. The decision also came down to so much being literally a short drive away. While there are certainly cultural amenities downtown that are attractive, the practical things I do each and every day are a skip and a jump from here - and they're a relatively long drive from downtown OKC. People make investments based on how things are today. Nobody wants to invest $200,000+ and be told they should do it as an incentive for retail and other amenities down the line. I hear that argument a lot in Oklahoma City, but see very few actually doing that - unless they wanted to be downtown anyway for other reasons. Nobody wants to lay down large investments in housing as an experiment in their investment being a magnet for some company out of town to decide to locate in the center city. We only live once.

[Spartan]

It is in the US census. There is a thread on it somewhere. The census district that covers downtown OKC has the highest growth rate in the state.

Can we bring that up again? Are you sure it wasn't like an inner south side census district? I find it hard to believe that a census district for Deer Creek or Moore where in the 2000 Census there was nothing and now there is sq mi's of neighborhoods is not "faster growing" simply by going from 0 to 60...

[redrunner]

Kerry's signature says it all.... Oklahoma City is the surprise your family's been looking for. Just not for the older 20 something single guy with enough disposable income to feed a village in a third world country for a year.

[okcpulse]

I think at least some of this can be explained by two factors:
1. In Oklahoma, people tend to marry and start families younger than in more urban areas.

True, but this is about what's happening in Oklahoma City, not the entire state. Things may be different in Oklahoma City.

2. In Oklahoma, the salaries rend to be lower.

Salaries are higher in OKC than the rest of the state, and have grown considerably since 2005. Even then, the U.S. Census shows the state of Oklahoma ranking 34 out of 50 in median household income in 2009. Tennessee and Georgia had lower median incomes than Oklahoma. And based on current trends, the dynamics of income are going to continue to change.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/incom...ian/index.html, click on Median Household Income by State - Single-Year Estimates.

Don't get me wrong, there are thousands of exceptions. But anecdotally, it seems that by the time a lot of young adults in OKC are in a position to buy something or pay a substantial amount of rent, they are already thinking kids/schools. In other parts of the country, there's more of a "gap" period, say 28 to 35, when young adults have the means to live well and are still focused on other things besides yards, suburban "amenities." I'm not sure OKC is ever going to have the armies of tens of thousands of wealthy, educated young urbanites without kids. At least not for a while.

This I cannot argue with, because I am married with children, and so upon my return to OKC I will be joining the armies of tens of thousands of educated urbanites/suburbanites with kids.

[okcpulse]

As long as Oklahoma languishes at 45-46 out of 50 in household income it may be a continuing struggle to turn this around.

As cited in my previous post, 34 out of 50 in median household income, and according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis... 34 out of 50 in per capita personal income.

However, I agree with the rest of your post.