OKC seeks railroad quiet zone downtown...

[warreng88]

By Brianna Bailey
Journal Record
Oklahoma City reporter - Contact 405-278-2847
Posted: 06:57 PM Tuesday, January 25, 2011

OKLAHOMA CITY – Preliminary plans for a railroad quiet zone that would span 10 blocks downtown along the Burlington Northern Santa Fe railway include an estimated $4 million in traffic improvements designed to make crossings safer or eliminate them altogether.

The BNSF line runs north-south between Oklahoma and Broadway avenues. The proposed quiet zone would stretch from Sixth Street to 16th Street.

“Right now, the trains just about blast constantly through downtown and this would greatly reduce that,” said Jim Lewellyn, project manager for the Oklahoma City Public Works Department. “If we can create a quiet zone in that area, it will encourage development in the area north of downtown.”

Trains that travel up and down the railway are now required to sound their horns at each intersection downtown for safety reasons. Preliminary plans for the quiet zone include traffic improvements like medians and double railroad crossing arms designed to make it safer for the trains to pass through the downtown area without blaring horns, said Steve Mason, chief executive officer and president of Cardinal Engineering.

Oklahoma City has commissioned Mason’s engineering firm to study traffic improvements for the quiet zone and conduct public outreach on the project. Mason also owns property in the area around the train tracks. Over the past five years, Mason remodeled six historic buildings in the area around Ninth Street and Broadway Avenue, sparking new business activity in the area.

Cardinal Engineering has developed an idea to install 100-foot traffic medians along the railroad tracks at Seventh, Eighth, Ninth, 13th and 16th streets and install quadruple traffic gates at 10th Street to keep cars from driving around the traffic arms at the crossing. Railroad crossings at West Park Place, 11th, 14th and 15th streets would be closed off altogether.

“By making these changes, you eliminate the need for the train whistle and it actually becomes safer,” Mason said.

Cardinal Engineering and city officials have conducted several public meetings and discussions with downtown property owners to discuss the proposed quiet zone over the past several months, Mason said.

“This idea was not created in a vacuum,” Mason said. “The city and Cardinal Engineering discussed these changes and we went out and spoke to community about it. I’ve yet to talk to anyone who likes the train whistle. It’s not a pleasant noise.”

After the traffic improvements are built, the Federal Railroad Administration would have to inspect the crossings and sanction the area as a quiet zone, eliminating the need for BNSF trains to sound a horn at each crossing downtown. The trains would still be required to sound at the Santa Fe Train Depot and when conductors spot potential trouble on the tracks, Lewellyn said.

Funding for the traffic improvements and a firm timeline for the project has yet to be put in place.

Oklahoma City hopes to fund the construction through general obligation bonds within the next few years, Lewellyn said.

[Easy180]

**Cough cough** head down to Moore ** cough cough**

[BDP]

What's in Moore?

[Easy180]

Mo tracks

Just hoping Moore considers something similar once the Target dollars start combined with Warren and Walmart

[Spartan]

They've been trying to do this quiet zone for ten years. It was one of the bullet-point objectives in the 2005 Downtown Strategic Action Plan as well. Glad to see it's finally gaining some steam, to use an appropriate metaphor...

[leprechaun]

If this will speed up development in the downtown area I am all for it.

[Kerry]

What are 100-foot traffic medians? Maybe they could install those concrete barriers that come up out of the ground. The gates go down and then these things pop up out of the ground. No one is going around them and they can come up and go down quickly. If they put these in they wouldn't have to close any crossing because they could effectivly seal off the entire rail right of way. If they were put between the crossing gate and the tracks you wouldn;t have to worry about a car being over one when they came up because if it was, it would be hit by the train anyhow.



or this



or this (it is three poles that come up out of the ground)

[Spartan]

I think automated bollards would be prohibitively expensive.

[ljbab728]

I think automated bollards would be prohibitively expensive.

Agreed, Spartan. The expense for those kind of barriers can only be justified by some kind of security reasoning.

[Larry OKC]

Oklahoma City hopes to fund the construction through general obligation bonds within the next few years, Lewellyn said.

Don't hold your breath...Reportedly we won't have another GO bond until the 2007 one has run its course (...a 10-year period, from 2008-2017). Once projects have been identified, included in the bond issue, presumably pass, it can easily be another 10 years before the project can be built. Now we are potentially talking 2027 or beyond for this to happen.

[LakeEffect]

Don't hold your breath...Reportedly we won't have another GO bond until the 2007 one has run its course (...a 10-year period, from 2008-2017). Once projects have been identified, included in the bond issue, presumably pass, it can easily be another 10 years before the project can be built. Now we are potentially talking 2027 or beyond for this to happen.

The 2007 has Unlisted funds that could be used for this. TIF funds could also play a role.

Sid, the railroads have refused to pay for quiet zones across the country, as far as I've been able to find out. They agree that the crossings will be safer when the system works properly (especially for crossings with 4 gates to close the whole crossing), but if something doesn't work, then the railroad enters into liability. Therefore, no one has really gotten much $$$ out of the railroads. They didn't create the process, the FRA (Federal Railroad Administration) did, so the railroads are imposing their own rules on the process via funding.

[Kerry]

I'm not sure how expensive they are. Disney uses them in multiple places so that can't be that expensive (one of them being the back lot road at Animal Kingdom which has three of them)

[shane453]

^^ Because Disney is broke?

[metro]

Larry, you'll see this happen in the next 2-3 years, this has been a long time coming as Spartan said. It won't be a decade or more.

[Kerry]

^^ Because Disney is broke?

I don't know the financial condition of the Disney Company but if they can put three of these on back-lot road how much could they cost? We don't need ones that are capable of stopping a terrorist attack, just one that will keep a car from driving around or through crossing gates. I am sure they come in a wide range of prices.

They don't give a price but these don't have the appearance of "cost prohibitive"

http://www.tridentdevices.com/securitybollards/

These are 30 inches tall, can go up or down in 4 seconds, and can cycle 1.5 million times before failure.

Deter unauthorized vehicles while providing peace of mind to your employees with the TRIDENT Electric Bollard System. Used extensively for high-security vehicle entrance control applications, the TRIDENT electric bollard system offers an attractive, yet highly secure blockade for facilities such as Corporate Headquarters, Banks and Data Centers, Executive Parking Lots, Courthouses, Stadiums, Museums and Manufacturing plants.

[Floyd]

They did this in downtown Tulsa: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...1_Atrain572615

[TheTravellers]

I don't know the financial condition of the Disney Company but if they can put three of these on back-lot road how much could they cost? We don't need ones that are capable of stopping a terrorist attack, just one that will keep a car from driving around or through crossing gates. I am sure they come in a wide range of prices.

They don't give a price but these don't have the appearance of "cost prohibitive"

http://www.tridentdevices.com/securitybollards/

These are 30 inches tall, can go up or down in 4 seconds, and can cycle 1.5 million times before failure.

Compared to putting up a few more crossing gates, and "100 foot traffic medians" (whatever those might be, although I think they may be a bunch of 3-4 ft high poles along the center line on each side of the crossing, which is what they have at a bunch of grade crossings in IL), tearing up the street and installing those things would be waaaaaay more costly and IMO, like killing a fly with a sledgehammer. Those kinds of bollards may be justified in very high traffic areas with major amounts of cars blowing through the crossings and people getting killed often (in the Chicago burbs, for example), but I don't think they're justified here in OKC.

[Kerry]

Compared to putting up a few more crossing gates, and "100 foot traffic medians" (whatever those might be, although I think they may be a bunch of 3-4 ft high poles along the center line on each side of the crossing, which is what they have at a bunch of grade crossings in IL), tearing up the street and installing those things would be waaaaaay more costly and IMO, like killing a fly with a sledgehammer. Those kinds of bollards may be justified in very high traffic areas with major amounts of cars blowing through the crossings and people getting killed often (in the Chicago burbs, for example), but I don't think they're justified here in OKC.

How much do you think they cost? In just the little internet researching I have done I am seeing these things used everywhere, even in bus lanes to keep cars out. I don't think they are as expensive as you guys think they are.

On edit - the more I see where these things are used the more I am going to call BS on those that think they are too expensive.

[mhare200]

I have seen these devices used in Chicago to increase railroad safety, very effective and low cost to boot.http://www.qwickkurb.com

[OKCisOK4me]

Well, at least us train enthusiasts will get a few more years of hearing that good ole wail!

Also, it'll be most interesting when this thing gets into place and then people start complaining about Union Pacific because they have that street crossing near Reno & Lincoln. Granted that line is not as busy as BNSF but I guarantee you NIMBYs will be pushing for that to be converted as well.

[zrfdude]

Compared to putting up a few more crossing gates, and "100 foot traffic medians"

Basically either the entire crossing must have arms or there needs to be a median so that cars are unable to go around the arms that are just on one side. I believe that measurement would refer to a length, not a width. The Duffy St. crossing in Norman would be an example of what they're talking about.

[betts]

Well, at least us train enthusiasts will get a few more years of hearing that good ole wail!

I'm not sure how I feel about that. Usually I like train horns but I was awake in the middle of the night last night and someone was goofing around with the horn, it sounded like. I believe they were not moving and it sounded like the guy was playing a tune with the horn. Or two trains were playing dueling horns. It's the only time I remember being annoyed by train noise.

[metro]

I agree I bet the retractable bollards are cheaper.

[OKCisOK4me]

I'm not sure how I feel about that. Usually I like train horns but I was awake in the middle of the night last night and someone was goofing around with the horn, it sounded like. I believe they were not moving and it sounded like the guy was playing a tune with the horn. Or two trains were playing dueling horns. It's the only time I remember being annoyed by train noise.

All the old houses north of Edmond Road/2nd St. in Edmond that back up to the tracks--those residents, that I know of, have never brought up the issue (and if they have it's not on any Edmond city agenda that I know of) of horns blowing through there and there's at least 3 street crossings between Edmond Road and Danforth.

I don't really know if the above is a grammatical sentence, lol...

[Kerry]

All the old houses north of Edmond Road/2nd St. in Edmond that back up to the tracks--those residents, that I know of, have never brought up the issue (and if they have it's not on any Edmond city agenda that I know of) of horns blowing through there and there's at least 3 street crossings between Edmond Road and Danforth.

I worked for 3 months in Monroe, LA and my hotel room was right next to the tracks at a crossing. The crossing was elevated and my room was on the second floor which mean my window was at the exact same height as the the train's horn. For the first 2 weeks every train woke me up. I slept in about 1 hour increments. After the thrird week I got so used to it I never heard another train for the next 2 months. At one point I even asked the front desk if trains were still running at night. My point is, you get used to it pretty quickly so you don't even notice them, but hotel guest (other than me) don't live next to the tracks long enough to get used to it.