Cops between NW 150th and NW 164th on Pennsylvania

[diesel]

Ok so construction is over between NW 150th and NW 164th on Pennsylvania but they seem to have kept the 30 MPH signs up and cops just waiting for people to cruise thru.. Does anyone drive thru this area and see the same thing?

[rcjunkie]

Ok so construction is over between NW 150th and NW 164th on Pennsylvania but they seem to have kept the 30 MPH signs up and cops just waiting for people to cruise thru.. Does anyone drive thru this area and see the same thing?

I do on occasion, and I choose to obey the traffic signs so it's no big deal to me.

[diesel]

I do on occasion, and I choose to obey the traffic signs so it's no big deal to me.

I do as well when the speed limits posted are for safety and not 10 mph below the norm as a speed trap...

[ljbab728]

I do as well when the speed limits posted are for safety and not 10 mph below the norm as a speed trap...

Diesel, It doesn't matter what the reason is for the posted speed limit. If you are exceeding the limit, you are breaking the law and should receive a ticket.

[TheTravellers]

Diesel, It doesn't matter what the reason is for the posted speed limit. If you are exceeding the limit, you are breaking the law and should receive a ticket.

If a law/sign is in place for unjust/wrong reasons, the people shouldn't obey it (our entire country was pretty much founded on that philosophy). Leaving construction speed limit signs up when construction is finished is either sloppiness/laziness or setting it up for a speed trap. I can't think of many (if any) other valid reasons for leaving construction speed limit signs up when construction is finished.

[ljbab728]

If a law/sign is in place for unjust/wrong reasons, the people shouldn't obey it (our entire country was pretty much founded on that philosophy). Leaving construction speed limit signs up when construction is finished is either sloppiness/laziness or setting it up for a speed trap. I can't think of many (if any) other valid reasons for leaving construction speed limit signs up when construction is finished.

Your statement is absolutely ridiculous. Is a law or sign is unjust you must work through legal channels to get it changed. If you choose to ignore it you are breaking the law and deserve whatever consequences you get, end of story. Our country was not founded on breaking "our" laws. We were choosing to ignore laws that we had no legal way to get changed. Remember "taxation without representation"? If you're talking about "civil disobedience" which was used to change civil rights laws, those who engaged in that did have to face the consequences. What happened, however, did work to change the country and the laws which they were choosing to disobey. It's a little hard to get that worked up about a speed limit sign though. For someone to ignore that, they are just trying to flaunt their disrespect for authority.

[bretthexum]

Wow, it takes an extra 30 seconds to get thru that construction at 30 vs 40. Get a grip

[TheTravellers]

Wow, it takes an extra 30 seconds to get thru that construction at 30 vs 40. Get a grip

It's not about getting through it 30 seconds faster, or just one stretch of road, it's about a pattern that looks like intentional speed traps. The construction on Western between 150th and 164th was finished, yet the 30 MPH signs were left up, and I personally saw police cars lying in wait for "speeders". Same thing happened on May between 150th and 164th. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.

[ljbab728]

It's not about getting through it 30 seconds faster, or just one stretch of road, it's about a pattern that looks like intentional speed traps. The construction on Western between 150th and 164th was finished, yet the 30 MPH signs were left up, and I personally saw police cars lying in wait for "speeders". Same thing happened on May between 150th and 164th. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.

I've personally seen police cars lying in wait for speeders all over the state including 70MPH freeways. Does that equate to a speedtrap? As I've said before, work through legal channels to get it changed or speed and get a ticket. I have no patience for speeders and applaude all efforts to get drivers to follow posted limits.

[TheTravellers]

I've personally seen police cars lying in wait for speeders all over the state including 70MPH freeways. Does that equate to a speedtrap? As I've said before, work through legal channels to get it changed or speed and get a ticket. I have no patience for speeders and applaude all efforts to get drivers to follow posted limits.

Yes, that does equate to a speed trap, according to this page (and others) - http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Speed_trap. The definition on that page that I was thinking about when I wrote the post is bullet #4. There is no "work though legal channels to get it changed" option for temporary construction zone speed limits. I speed (going about 40) through there because it's 4 brand-new lanes, with brand-new lane markings, perfectly street-lit at night, straight as an arrow, etc. There is absolutely no reason that the temporary 30 MPH speed limit should still be in effect.

Are you aware that there are generally accepted recommendations on speed limits on streets and speed surveys should probably be done every few (5-10) years and that speed limits should be set at the speed that 85% of the motorists drive? Not all of that is gospel, not all of that is followed, IANATE (Traffic Engineer), etc. Setting speed limits artificially low in order to generate revenue is uncool. For instance, Penn between Hefner and Britton - speed limit goes from 45 north of Hefner to 35 south of Hefner. Yes, it's more residential, but it's still 4 lanes and heavily traveled - is it residential enough to be 35 instead of 40? Edmond's the same way on Boulevard, the speed limit there should probably be 40 also. Just because there's a sign up doesn't mean it was done for the right reasons - just one example is that stop signs should not be used as "slow-down" devices, yet they constantly are used as such all over the country. Check out the MUTCD sometime, it can be an interesting (if somewhat dry) read.

[ljbab728]

Yes, that does equate to a speed trap, according to this page (and others) - http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Speed_trap. The definition on that page that I was thinking about when I wrote the post is bullet #4. There is no "work though legal channels to get it changed" option for temporary construction zone speed limits. I speed (going about 40) through there because it's 4 brand-new lanes, with brand-new lane markings, perfectly street-lit at night, straight as an arrow, etc. There is absolutely no reason that the temporary 30 MPH speed limit should still be in effect.

Are you aware that there are generally accepted recommendations on speed limits on streets and speed surveys should probably be done every few (5-10) years and that speed limits should be set at the speed that 85% of the motorists drive? Not all of that is gospel, not all of that is followed, IANATE (Traffic Engineer), etc. Setting speed limits artificially low in order to generate revenue is uncool. For instance, Penn between Hefner and Britton - speed limit goes from 45 north of Hefner to 35 south of Hefner. Yes, it's more residential, but it's still 4 lanes and heavily traveled - is it residential enough to be 35 instead of 40? Edmond's the same way on Boulevard, the speed limit there should probably be 40 also. Just because there's a sign up doesn't mean it was done for the right reasons - just one example is that stop signs should not be used as "slow-down" devices, yet they constantly are used as such all over the country. Check out the MUTCD sometime, it can be an interesting (if somewhat dry) read.

So basically under your definition, anyplace that a police car is waiting to catch speeders is a speed trap unless they have a flashing sign up at least one mile ahead warning you that you might be watched. If that's the case, I'm all in favor of speed traps. I truly believe that over 50 percent of all drivers ignore speed limits. If there was no concern about possibly being stopped for speeding our streets would be complete chaos. I'm not arguing that the speed limits in the area in question are appropriate. Just don't tell me that there is no recourse for getting anything changed. Any law or rule has some method for being changed or repealed and until it's changed you should obey the posted limits no matter how much you may disagree or how unjust it might be.

[TheTravellers]

So basically under your definition, anyplace that a police car is waiting to catch speeders is a speed trap unless they have a flashing sign up at least one mile ahead warning you that you might be watched. If that's the case, I'm all in favor of speed traps. I truly believe that over 50 percent of all drivers ignore speed limits. If there was no concern about possibly being stopped for speeding our streets would be complete chaos. I'm not arguing that the speed limits in the area in question are appropriate. Just don't tell me that there is no recourse for getting anything changed. Any law or rule has some method for being changed or repealed and until it's changed you should obey the posted limits no matter how much you may disagree or how unjust it might be.

Well, those definitions aren't my definitions, so your first sentence isn't really right. As far as complete chaos on streets, it's almost already there with all the people that barrel out of side streets/parking lots onto main streets literally right in front of other cars, forcing them to slam on the brakes or swerve dangerously around them (OKC drivers do this so unbelievably often and egregiously, it's jaw-dropping - just today, 2 cars did that in front of me from eastbound Grand on to southbound May, and one more idiot was going to, then stopped with his front end 2 feet into May after I honked at him, then swerved around him, then one more car did the same thing to 3 other cars on May and NW Expressway (luckily not me)), all in a 10 minute period, and this happens multiple times on my daily commute; drivers going way slower than the posted speed limit (going under the speed limit can be dangerous, despite what people think); a huge amount of drivers talking on cell phones while driving; cutting across multiple lanes of traffic just so they can turn the other way RIGHT NOW (just go around the block or make a u-turn ahead, people). Speeding is just about the least dangerous rule-breaking out there in OKC, as long as it's not excessive speed (like 60 in a 40 or something stupid like that).

As far as recourse to getting something changed, yes, there is almost always that option. However, in this case, I don't think there is - the temporary speed limit signs will be gone eventually, because they're temporary, so I don't believe there really is an option to change or do anything about that situation. Where would you even start in order to ask OKC to take them down immediately after construction is finished? I talked to someone in OKC about how poorly their contractor was striping and barricading the 164th/May intersection and that was painful, so I don't think it's possible to even start a discussion with them about the temp speed limit signs.

Sadly, my wife saw an AAA truck get a ticket on Penn today in that "construction zone", so OKCPD is still taking advantage of that situation, which I do consider a speed trap because the posted temporary speed limits aren't necessary for safety any longer.

[ljbab728]

I won't argue that there are many reasons why driving in OKC is dangerous but speed kills and is at the top of my list. And going 60 in a 40 is really fairly common. The solution, again, in areas you consider to be speed traps, is to just obey the posted limits. No problems then. What's the big deal if, as you said, the signs will be taken down eventually? You and the other drivers will survive nicely while driving a few miles an hour slower for a little while longer.

[TheTravellers]

I won't argue that there are many reasons why driving in OKC is dangerous but speed kills and is at the top of my list. And going 60 in a 40 is really fairly common. The solution, again, in areas you consider to be speed traps, is to just obey the posted limits. No problems then. What's the big deal if, as you said, the signs will be taken down eventually? You and the other drivers will survive nicely while driving a few miles an hour slower for a little while longer.

I'm curious, I have never seen people driving 60 in a 40 once since we've been back (about 18 months), and I drive all over the NW part of the city and in Edmond. Where exactly do you see this "fairly common" 60 in a 40? That is massively stupid, and reckless driving, not just speeding. When I go over the speed limit, I very rarely do more than 10 over (and never in a school zone, just to head anybody off).

As far as "speed kills", how do you explain the lack of massive deaths on the Autobahn? Here's part of it - they actually have drivers that know how to drive (and have a hell of a lot more driver training), don't talk on cell phones, know the capabilities and limits of their cars, ad infinitum. Pretty much the opposite of how things are in the USA, and certainly massively different than the way OKC drivers are. I don't really believe that speeding causes a huge amount of crashes (stats kind of back me up, looks like only 1/3 or so of crashes are a result of speed), but it probably does end up exacerbating a crash that happens.

And the big deal is that the speed limit signs are not still up for safety reasons, IMO, they're still there for revenue enhancement.

[fuzzytoad]

I'm curious, I have never seen people driving 60 in a 40 once since we've been back (about 18 months), and I drive all over the NW part of the city and in Edmond. Where exactly do you see this "fairly common" 60 in a 40? That is massively stupid, and reckless driving, not just speeding. When I go over the speed limit, I very rarely do more than 10 over (and never in a school zone, just to head anybody off).

Agreed, I very rarely see anyone driving more that 5-10mph over the limit, it's usually the exact opposite.. Especially the closer you get to Edmond, where everyone seems to drive 15-20mph below the limit, particularly on broadway..

I don't have any facts handy to back this up, but I'm willing to bet more fatal accidents are caused by drivers in the passing lane driving below the limit, infuriating those behind them who start driving in anger and making mistakes while trying to get around the slowpokes..

[ljbab728]

I'm curious, I have never seen people driving 60 in a 40 once since we've been back (about 18 months), and I drive all over the NW part of the city and in Edmond. Where exactly do you see this "fairly common" 60 in a 40? That is massively stupid, and reckless driving, not just speeding. When I go over the speed limit, I very rarely do more than 10 over (and never in a school zone, just to head anybody off).

As far as "speed kills", how do you explain the lack of massive deaths on the Autobahn? Here's part of it - they actually have drivers that know how to drive (and have a hell of a lot more driver training), don't talk on cell phones, know the capabilities and limits of their cars, ad infinitum. Pretty much the opposite of how things are in the USA, and certainly massively different than the way OKC drivers are. I don't really believe that speeding causes a huge amount of crashes (stats kind of back me up, looks like only 1/3 or so of crashes are a result of speed), but it probably does end up exacerbating a crash that happens.

And the big deal is that the speed limit signs are not still up for safety reasons, IMO, they're still there for revenue enhancement.

I also drive all over NW OKC and seeing someone driving 60 is not unusual at all. I don't have a speed gun but, based on how fast I drive (the exact speed limit), it's very obvious how fast they're driving. When I said speed kills, what I meant was that if you're in an accident and you're speeding it's much more likely that you will be injured or killed than if you're driving slower. Obviously reckless driving is much more dangerous than just speeding. When someone is driving the posted limit and expecting others to do the same it's more difficult to allow for lane changes and turns without putting yourself in jeopardy when confronted with speeders. That's why I avoid NW Expressway if at all possible. If you're driving 10 miles per hour over the speed limit, I have absolutely no sympathy for you or anyone else who might get a ticket. From what you said, it sounds like you may drive over the limit in other locations as well. It's against the law no matter why the signs are up or where they are. If you drive the posted limit you won't be enhancing anyone's revenue and you definitely seem to know what the limit is.

[TheTravellers]

OK, ljbab728, let me go off on a tangent here - do you stop completely at every single stop sign? Do you stop completely at a red light before turning? Do you use your signal every time you change lanes or turn? Just curious as to whether you follow every single traffic law completely and totally? Do you assume that the powers-that-be have placed every single traffic control device properly and correctly for the safety of the drivers?

As far as 60 in a 40, please tell me where you see these people? Name some streets? I drive on May, Penn, Western, 150th, 164th, Memorial, 122nd, NW Expwy, MacArthur, Rockwell, Meridian, Hefner, Britton, 63rd, Wilshire, 36th, 50th in OKC. I drive on 2nd, Boulevard, Broadway, 15th, 33rd in Edmond. I don't think I've seen anybody at all doing 60 on any of those streets (yeah, not all of them are 40 MPH, I know) since we've moved back here about a year ago, so I'm just curious as to where you've seen these speed demons...

And I haven't gotten a speeding ticket in decades, just FYI.

[TheTravellers]

Agreed, I very rarely see anyone driving more that 5-10mph over the limit, it's usually the exact opposite.. Especially the closer you get to Edmond, where everyone seems to drive 15-20mph below the limit, particularly on broadway..

I don't have any facts handy to back this up, but I'm willing to bet more fatal accidents are caused by drivers in the passing lane driving below the limit, infuriating those behind them who start driving in anger and making mistakes while trying to get around the slowpokes..

Edmond housewives, as someone told me - women in big Nissan Muranos (or another SUV that's way too big for them to handle), with big sunglasses on, talking on a cell phone. I didn't believe them until I almost got hit by a few of them. Why OK won't ban cell phones (at the very least, handheld ones), I don't know... Maybe that'll be my next cause.

As far as the 2nd part of your post, that does happen to me quite often (not the fatal accident part :-) ), but I really try to get out from behind all the crappy drivers so I won't be stuck behind them for miles while they're enjoying their sunday-afternoon-type drive (quite often, 2 cars doing that and blocking both lanes on a street) while I'm just trying to get to work in a reasonable time. I really, really, really, really don't understand why such a large percentage of OKC-metro drivers go 5-10 MPH under the speed limit, wasn't always this way...

[dhkosz]

I drive it a few times a day and can't understand why they haven't put the speed limit back up to 40 mph. And, yes, there have been tons of cops there!

[ljbab728]

OK, ljbab728, let me go off on a tangent here - do you stop completely at every single stop sign? Do you stop completely at a red light before turning? Do you use your signal every time you change lanes or turn? Just curious as to whether you follow every single traffic law completely and totally? Do you assume that the powers-that-be have placed every single traffic control device properly and correctly for the safety of the drivers?

As far as 60 in a 40, please tell me where you see these people? Name some streets? I drive on May, Penn, Western, 150th, 164th, Memorial, 122nd, NW Expwy, MacArthur, Rockwell, Meridian, Hefner, Britton, 63rd, Wilshire, 36th, 50th in OKC. I drive on 2nd, Boulevard, Broadway, 15th, 33rd in Edmond. I don't think I've seen anybody at all doing 60 on any of those streets (yeah, not all of them are 40 MPH, I know) since we've moved back here about a year ago, so I'm just curious as to where you've seen these speed demons...

And I haven't gotten a speeding ticket in decades, just FYI.

Actually, yes I do obey all of the laws you mentioned and, if I didn't and was seen by a policeman violating one of those laws, I would deserve a ticket. As far as using turn signals, don't get me started on that. That is one of my biggest pet peeves. EVERYONE should always signal when they change lanes even if there isn't another car within 3 miles. I don't drive in Edmond but I use most of the other streets you mention and see many drivers who are going at least 60. Maybe you don't notice it so much because you're going over the limit too. I'm glad you haven't had a speeding ticket recently, maybe you've just been lucky. I've never had a speeding ticket in all of the 47 years I've been driving.

[diesel]

Actually, yes I do obey all of the laws you mentioned and, if I didn't and was seen by a policeman violating one of those laws, I would deserve a ticket. As far as using turn signals, don't get me started on that. That is one of my biggest pet peeves. EVERYONE should always signal when they change lanes even if there isn't another car within 3 miles. I don't drive in Edmond but I use most of the other streets you mention and see many drivers who are going at least 60. Maybe you don't notice it so much because you're going over the limit too. I'm glad you haven't had a speeding ticket recently, maybe you've just been lucky. I've never had a speeding ticket in all of the 47 years I've been driving.

Well you are one of the few that obey the law at all times.. Maybe the police department should give you award for your 47 years of excellent driving...

[ljbab728]

Well you are one of the few that obey the law at all times.. Maybe the police department should give you award for your 47 years of excellent driving...

No award from the police yet but it sure helps my insurance rates. LOL

[TheTravellers]

Actually, yes I do obey all of the laws you mentioned and, if I didn't and was seen by a policeman violating one of those laws, I would deserve a ticket. As far as using turn signals, don't get me started on that. That is one of my biggest pet peeves. EVERYONE should always signal when they change lanes even if there isn't another car within 3 miles. I don't drive in Edmond but I use most of the other streets you mention and see many drivers who are going at least 60. Maybe you don't notice it so much because you're going over the limit too. I'm glad you haven't had a speeding ticket recently, maybe you've just been lucky. I've never had a speeding ticket in all of the 47 years I've been driving.

Yay, thank you for using turn signals, please ask everyone you know to use them too! Big pet peeve of mine, also. As far as people going 60 in a 40, there's no way a non-trivial amount of drivers are going 60 on those OKC streets mentioned above, at least not when I drive. I go 5-10 over, almost never more than that, and if they were going 60, I do think I'd notice them since they'd be blowing past me as well as you. And not all is luck when it comes to my not receiving speeding tickets, I don't drive stupidly. Yes, I drive fast, but not stupid - those are not the same thing.

BTW, cops are still busting people on Penn as of today. Guess it's adding up to quite a bit of extra money for OKC... Still wonder if the cops were asked to enforce the 30 MPH there or if they're just taking advantage of the signs not being taken down in a timely manner. Still a speed trap.

[kevinpate]

Times is tough, and coffers be light.

[ljbab728]

Yay, thank you for using turn signals, please ask everyone you know to use them too! Big pet peeve of mine, also. As far as people going 60 in a 40, there's no way a non-trivial amount of drivers are going 60 on those OKC streets mentioned above, at least not when I drive. I go 5-10 over, almost never more than that, and if they were going 60, I do think I'd notice them since they'd be blowing past me as well as you. And not all is luck when it comes to my not receiving speeding tickets, I don't drive stupidly. Yes, I drive fast, but not stupid - those are not the same thing.

BTW, cops are still busting people on Penn as of today. Guess it's adding up to quite a bit of extra money for OKC... Still wonder if the cops were asked to enforce the 30 MPH there or if they're just taking advantage of the signs not being taken down in a timely manner. Still a speed trap.

If you're going over the speed limit anywhere, that's driving stupidly and you deserve a ticket. And, if those people are still getting tickets, hopefully they have learned not to speed in that area on Penn. In my opinion, it's only a speed trap if the signs are hidden or difficult to see. If people simply think the limit should be higher, that doesn't qualify.
I'm glad you at least agree about turn signals. Many drivers don't know what they are.