Oklahoma National Guard

[MikeOKC]

Not sure where to put this as it's not "political" per se. I have no clue why the Oklahoman doesn't have this story, but I have learned the Oklahoma National Guard has been told to be ready for a deployment of 3,500 "combat ready" troops for deployment early next year to Afghanistan. The largest deployment of Oklahoma Guard troops since the Korean War.

[MikeOKC]

In December the Guard was informed of a possible deployment. They were expecting an order of around 800-100. It's 3,500. These are combat troops from the 45th. We'll be seeing a lot more sad headlines in our state next year.

Actually, the release has been picked up by KOCO. I still haven't seen anything from The Oklahoman. Huge story.

OKLAHOMA CITY -- The largest Oklahoma National Guard deployment since the Korean War was announced on Friday.

The Oklahoma National Guard's Office of Public Affairs announced that the 45th Infantry Brigade Combat Team has received its mobilization order and will deploy to Afghanistan in 2011.

"From the time we were given our notification of sourcing last December, we have worked to build our team and ensure we provide every soldier with the necessary training to prepare for this deployment," said Col. Joel Ward, commander of the 45th.

The 45th is scheduled to conduct of full spectrum of operations, guard officials said.

"The 45th has an experienced team of leaders," said Maj. Gen. Myles L. Deering, adjutant general for Oklahoma. "They are very well trained, very proficient and very capable of handling all aspects of the mission they will perform in Afghanistan."

Before deploying next year. all 3,500 soldiers assigned to the 45th will engage in various training events.

[Easy180]

It is big news and definitely not good news...Since it says they won't deploy til next year maybe they won't still have to go...Yeah right

[Thunder]

This puts Oklahoma in the spotlight, so yes, it is very good news. We can show the world how tough we are!

[MikeOKC]

This puts Oklahoma in the spotlight, so yes, it is very good news. We can show the world how tough we are!

You're being flip, right? Unfortunately, "showing the world how tough we are" often translates into many coffins returning to grieving families. I've been reading how certain people I respect, who at one time didn't see a Vietnam-like scenario at work, are changing their minds. The troop increases, the horrible terrain, zealots on the other side, enemies who look like friends, increasing guerrilla-style attacks, worry over saving face if we just leave....there's more than most people realize. I saw a bumpersticker in Dallas the other day:
How do you spell Vietnam? - (small bolded letters underneath says) - A-F-G-H-A-N-I-S-T-A-N. Bring. Our. Troops. Home.

[ljbab728]

You're being flip, right? Unfortunately, "showing the world how tough we are" often translates into many coffins returning to grieving families. I've been reading how certain people I respect, who at one time didn't see a Vietnam-like scenario at work, are changing their minds. The troop increases, the horrible terrain, zealots on the other side, enemies who look like friends, increasing guerrilla-style attacks, worry over saving face if we just leave....there's more than most people realize. I saw a bumpersticker in Dallas the other day:
How do you spell Vietnam? - (small bolded letters underneath says) - A-F-G-H-A-N-I-S-T-A-N. Bring. Our. Troops. Home.

Not a good analogy. I was in college in the Vietnam era and without an medical deferment would have been there during the war. I lost friends there. Losing our troops (family or friends) anywhere is a tragedy but connecting a danger to the US from Vietnam was much more difficult than connecting a threat to us from Afghanistan.

[MikeOKC]

Not a good analogy. I was in college in the Vietnam era and without an medical deferment would have been there during the war. I lost friends there. Losing our troops (family or friends) anywhere is a tragedy but connecting a danger to the US from Vietnam was much more difficult than connecting a threat to us from Afghanistan.

Huh? I lost friends and relatives in Vietnam. Not sure that has anything to do with it. Are you saying there was a greater threat from Vietnam? That's the whole problem, there wasn't a threat from Vietnam at all. We did lose that war, remember? We now have full diplomatic relations with Vietnam. Communist Vietnam.

The similarity is the nature of the quagmire.

But still, I didn't understand your post and am not sure what you're saying. I hope it's not that Afghanistan is a threat to the USA. That's a laughable stretch. Harboring terrorists? Yeah, so does Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and on and on. We can't stay in a permanent war against shadow terrorists that can hide anywhere. Including anyplace in the united States - we can't invade ourselves! But again - you weren't very clear.

[ljbab728]

Huh? I lost friends and relatives in Vietnam. Not sure that has anything to do with it. Are you saying there was a greater threat from Vietnam? That's the whole problem, there wasn't a threat from Vietnam at all. We did lose that war, remember? We now have full diplomatic relations with Vietnam. Communist Vietnam.

The similarity is the nature of the quagmire.

But still, I didn't understand your post and am not sure what you're saying. I hope it's not that Afghanistan is a threat to the USA. That's a laughable stretch. Harboring terrorists? Yeah, so does Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and on and on. We can't stay in a permanent war against shadow terrorists that can hide anywhere. Including anyplace in the united States - we can't invade ourselves! But again - you weren't very clear.

You obviously didn't read my post that closely then. I said specifically that I thought we had a bigger threat from Afghanistan than from Vietnam. You don't have to explain anything to me about Vietnam. I was very involved in that issue at the time and never thought we should have been there. And losing friends or family doesn't have any direct relationship to whether we should be involved, it just makes it much more personal. And as for harboring terrorists, they are everywhere in the world. They just weren't supported everywhere in the world by the government like they were in the Taliban government in Afghanistan. It sounds like you're saying we can't fight terrorists unless we have some specific place and target. When we abandon that fight, we are basically giving up.

Just because we have a decent relationship with Vietnam now, do you really think leaving Afghanistan would produce similar results there in 10 or 15 years?

We also have a relatively good relationship now with communist China. Both China and Vietnam have been trending towards democracy in economic areas anyway. And they are booming because of it. Do you think that would happen in Afghanistan under the Taliban?

I wish we could leave Afghanistan yesterday. But I truly believe it would foster direct attacks against us in the future if we do abandon it to the Taliban and Al Qaida.

[Easy180]

Here is a thought...Let's leave Afghan which allows the fun bunch to congregate which makes them an easy target like they were when we went in...Would save a lot of lives and dough

[MikeOKC]

You obviously didn't read my post that closely then. I said specifically that I thought we had a bigger threat from Afghanistan than from Vietnam. You don't have to explain anything to me about Vietnam. I was very involved in that issue at the time and never thought we should have been there. And losing friends or family doesn't have any direct relationship to whether we should be involved, it just makes it much more personal. And as for harboring terrorists, they are everywhere in the world. They just weren't supported everywhere in the world by the government like they were in the Taliban government in Afghanistan. It sounds like you're saying we can't fight terrorists unless we have some specific place and target. When we abandon that fight, we are basically giving up.

Just because we have a decent relationship with Vietnam now, do you really think leaving Afghanistan would produce similar results there in 10 or 15 years?

We also have a relatively good relationship now with communist China. Both China and Vietnam have been trending towards democracy in economic areas anyway. And they are booming because of it. Do you think that would happen in Afghanistan under the Taliban?

I wish we could leave Afghanistan yesterday. But I truly believe it would foster direct attacks against us in the future if we do abandon it to the Taliban and Al Qaida.

Then every despotic government is worth going to war with?

By the way, what does "trending towards democracy in economic areas" mean? State capitalism in China now has something to do with democracy? China is a totalitarian government. Period. But, alas, that's off-topic.

Afghanistan will always have radicals. Afghanistan may always have radicals and tribal leaders running their country. Afghanistan is not the place for young American men and women to die to somehow "stop terrorists." What a horrible waste. What's the end-game? Didn't the Soviets discover that there was no way to defeat alligators in their own water?

3,500 Oklahoma troops going to fight religious fanatics will do nothing to make this country safer. On top of everything else -- we cannot afford it.

[ljbab728]

Then every despotic government is worth going to war with?

If the despotic government is fostering and giving safe haven to those plotting to do harm to us, yes. That is akin to that government declaring war on us. I am probably one of the most anti-war and anti-military involvement persons you would ever want to meet and don't ever want another one of our service members in harms way again and, if you had told me during Vietnam that I would ever favor our military getting involved in a place like Afghanistan, I would have told you that you were crazy.

I want this resolved and our troops gone from there ASAP but I don't want a situation where we have to go back again in 5 years when that country is right back where it was.

[mugofbeer]

You're being flip, right? Unfortunately, "showing the world how tough we are" often translates into many coffins returning to grieving families. I've been reading how certain people I respect, who at one time didn't see a Vietnam-like scenario at work, are changing their minds. The troop increases, the horrible terrain, zealots on the other side, enemies who look like friends, increasing guerrilla-style attacks, worry over saving face if we just leave....there's more than most people realize. I saw a bumpersticker in Dallas the other day:
How do you spell Vietnam? - (small bolded letters underneath says) - A-F-G-H-A-N-I-S-T-A-N. Bring. Our. Troops. Home.

IT's everything you say it is, Mike, but the problem is - what will happen if we don't pursue the Islamists? Whether we like it or not, we are in a war and even if we leave Afghanistan, they will still wage war on us. No one ever said this would be a traditional war with armies battling it out on open fields and a clear victory when a specific action takes place. This is a non-traditional war that we are in, like it or not. Its simply a matter of whether it is waged in the US or waged on their home turf. At least this way, most of the war is away from the US and forces them to continue living in caves in the high mountains rather than possessing their own Islamist safe haven where they can openly train millions for world jihad. There are times when faced with a bad choice and a really bad choice. This is one of them.

[Kerry]

It is funny to hear people use Vietnam as an excuse to leave Iraq and Afghanistan. It demostrates a lack of understanding about what led to Vietnam. The Korean and Vietnam Wars were the result of unfinished business relating to WWII. Communist forces in Russia used the leadership vaccume created by the collapse of the German and Japanies empires to spread communism. We should have followed the advice of General Patton and taken Russia out as well. The world would be a far better place today if we had.

[jmarkross]

It is funny to hear people use Vietnam as an excuse to leave Iraq and Afghanistan. It demostrates a lack of understanding about what led to Vietnam. The Korean and Vietnam Wars were the result of unfinished business relating to WWII. Communist forces in Russia used the leadership vaccume created by the collapse of the German and Japanies empires to spread communism. We should have followed the advice of General Patton and taken Russia out as well. The world would be a far better place today if we had.

Some good points here--but, I would suggest more study on Patton "taking out" Russia in 1945. The Red Army had about 12,000,000 hardened experienced troops who just smashed Germany...and array of material that was literally mind-boggling--one JS-II tank could have wiped out a battalion of Shermans in minutes, since they very poor tanks in that conflict...it would have been utterly and completely impossible--and every living historian would agree. But--that is something never really taught in the USA--even today. If you have any real interest..I suggest this book--best one-volume out there on the subject..."When Titans Clashed"--by David Glantz and Jonathan House...one of the best historical expositions I have ever seen, with a staggering array of well-researched and accurate facts and figures.

[metro]

Not really new news considering most of them already knew they were going to be deployed months ago. My neighbor is in the 45th and they told him about 3 months ago.

[MikeOKC]

Not really new news considering most of them already knew they were going to be deployed months ago. My neighbor is in the 45th and they told him about 3 months ago.

Metro, You can act so .....smug.....arrogant. It IS news and to suggest it is not is a slap in the face to the 45th who must now make much larger preparations than expected. As was said before, they were expecting a deployment of 800-1000. The deployment of 3,500 turns out to be the largest since the Korean War. NOT what was expected. Metro, if you support this war and believe in it strongly - aren't you of age that a recruiting center would love to get your signature on some papers? You could then put your desire for war with Afghanistan into action. and yes, it's very relevant. The new term "Keyboard-Commandos" is exactly what it says: Support a far away war from your keyboard - not where it counts if you truly believe it is important for our country.

Kerry, I wasn't comparing the geopolitics of Vietnam with Afghanistan. I was comparing the quagmire implications on 'winning' (whatever that means) on their own terrain which they know so well. By the way, Vietnam was not "unfinished business" of WWII any more than any of the so-called "containment" theories were. At 51, I have a deep understanding of Vietnam. My youth was shaped by Vietnam. It bothers me to read young people today write about how some of us "have a lack of understanding," about that conflict and then go on to state things that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. I understand Vietnam very well, Kerry.

As a libertarian/conservative I honestly believe we cannot afford to wage war in Afghanistan. In dollars or blood. The myth of "fight them there or they come here" is faulty, imo, as nothing is keeping them from coming here now if they can. It's not like they're short in numbers.

[redrunner]

Ughh...I'm so sick of this pompous tool Metro. It's not new news or important unless he's the one to break the news. It is new news and quite important to many of us since we don't have a neighbor to tell us about an upcoming deployment. How shameful that he has to discredit this story for whatever reason.

[metro]

Pot this is kettle........... I was just stating what I knew, as usual, take it out of context for more than it's worth. I wasn't discrediting the story intentionally, but we'll let you be the judge of that.

[Easy180]

Just heard on the news an Oklahoma soldier died in Afghanistan...after serving 3 tours in Iraq and on his 2nd tour in Afghan

Disgusting

[Thunder]

Just heard on the news an Oklahoma soldier died in Afghanistan...after serving 3 tours in Iraq and on his 2nd tour in Afghan

Disgusting

Not disgusting. He knew the risk and was willing to die for us. Rather than be sitting there with all gloom and doom in your thoughts, be thankful to the solider for giving everything he got.

[Easy180]

I guess you are right...5 tours really isn't that bad...I believe the military recruiting brochures detail that possibility