6 months later.

[barnold]

It's been 6 months now since Mayor Cornett appeared in countless TV ads touting that a "vote for Maps3 will add police and fire protection." There was no denial of this promise by city leaders and many joined the Mayor for face time in the great push to get Maps3 passed.

July 1 starts the new fiscal year for the city and we will start this year off with 22 less police and 29 less firefighter positions that will be filled. (These numbers do not include how many each department is already running short, as are many other essential city services are as well.) Mayor Cornett announced to the voters of Oklahoma City that the use tax from Maps3 would actually add 20 police and 10 firefighter positions.

Who will hold the city leaders accountable for their promises? Who will remember the TV ads, blogs, radio interviews and other propaganda that was spread for months? It seems only those that it directly affects. The only problem with this way of thinking is that until you don't have a service you've taken for granted all this time; it doesn't really affect you- does it?

Several on OKC talk were bold in stating that they would be the first to stand in front of the council and demand that essential city services be maintained. Where have they gone? Other threads have touted how OKC's population base has grown over the past several years, but few admit that the employee base that delivers these services has actually decreased.

I won't stand idly by waiting for promises to come to fruition and will continue to ask the questions here and in other forums. But when will someone in a position of authority with the city stand up and answer for what they have promised the citizens of OKC? Politicians count on you not remembering all their promises over the past 4 years. Will you? Why do we have to wait 4 years when you have a voice now? Honesty from our city leaders is expected; accountability is demanded and failure of either of these traits should be immediately corrected. If not by those in public office, then by those that placed them there by their individual voice and vote.

[brianinok]

MAPS3 will increase our tax base, which will allow the city to hire more police and firefighters. This is not rocket science.

[Mikemarsh51]

Nice theory Brianinok, Can you explain why the numbers of police and firefighters has declined since the first and subsequent Maps projects? It can't be the tax base getting smaller. You being so niave is almost cute.

[Steve]

1. Mayor Mick Cornett promised during the MAPS 3 campaign that if the tax were passed, it would put more police and firefighters on the streets.
2. Curious: does a growing population always translate into a higher work load? What is the impact of better built homes, a shrinking supply of older, more fire prone homes, and technological advances?

[barnold]

Steve,

1. Yes he he did, and no it has not.
2. In the case of Okc, YES it has. Total work load for all departments has increased and the new motto of okc services is "do more with less". For the FD it's not just fires calls and hasn't been for more than 20 years, you know that. As to the newer homes, unless they have a sprinkler system installed in them, they actually burn faster and hotter than 20 years ago making the occupants time to escape even less than it used to be.

[Mikemarsh51]

You have to think outside of the house Steve. Even though we have better built structures, we still have natural disasters, motor vehicle accidents, domestic accidents, domestic abuse, any number of criminal situations causing injury and overall bad health of people. Public safety should keep up with the population growth.

[okcpulse]

1. Mayor Mick Cornett promised during the MAPS 3 campaign that if the tax were passed, it would put more police and firefighters on the streets.
2. Curious: does a growing population always translate into a higher work load? What is the impact of better built homes, a shrinking supply of older, more fire prone homes, and technological advances?

Not to mention better efficiency from within the police force. Our city's population has increased, but does crime skyrocket with population growth? Too many cops can create bored cops, and that can be bad.

Besides, we just started collecting the tax a few months ago. This is a pay-as-you-go program. Not an instant-gratification-finance-and-build-the-projects-now program.

Not trying to to sound short, barnold, but think things through before coming to these conclusions instead of jumping to them. Heck, after the first MAPS was passed in 1993 my stepdad expected to see cranes flying for the new arena on the day we started collecting the tax. Doesn't work that way.

[Mikemarsh51]

Brianinok, When ground was broken for the canal on 7/4/1998, we had approx. 975 personnel on the fire dept. A class was started on 3/19/1999 that brought our total to 999 personnel. Since that time and several Maps projects later we are somewhere around 930. Splain the the rocket science or be prepared to believe public safety is in fact not a priority with this mayor, city council and city manager.

[Mikemarsh51]

Pulse, are you serious? We have lived through 16 years of waiting for things to get better. And it has been that long since the city actually had a contract with us in place at the start of the fiscal year. Wasnt us dragging our feet on an agreement.

[barnold]

okcpulse,

If the pay as you go program were true, then why was the city purchasing land for the core to shore in Nov. prior to the election?

Also, what sound logic comes from cutting positions from the general fund that you claim you don't have money for with the promise that they will hire 10 additional positions with Maps3 use tax. -29 now + 10 in 6 more months still leaves a deficit of -19 positions. Funny math. Don't think my accountant would go for it.

[OKC@heart]

The taxes generated by the result of Maps III will also certainly increase as a result. But even the Maps money is not in hand to be used yet, but is accrued as it is collected in a pay as you go model.

[rcjunkie]

Oh great, another thread with nothing but we need, we were promised, we don't have! WA WA WA WA WA.

For Gods sake, get a grip, stop bitching, be thankful you have a job and just do it. If your that unhappy retire/quit/move to Dallas or Kansas City and start a new life. Or better yet, move to Tenkiller with me, one can never have too many fishing buddies.

I still find it amusing that the only ones complaining are Police and Fire, I guess all other employees (Water, Streets, Parks, Animal Control, etc understand the financial and budget process, they know that in lean times you have to make do with less and are just happy to still be employed.

Got to go, time for breakfast so that I can be on the lake by sunrise!

[Larry OKC]

rc: don't you understand, if the Mayor isn't being truthful about this particular promise (personally, I think he is trying to uphold that promise, but he is 1 person among the many) how many other things about MAPS 3 are questionable? Goes back to the "intent". I have seen some of the Council meetings were it came up and he does seem sincere. But again, the "intent" can easily change.

[Larry OKC]

The taxes generated by the result of Maps III will also certainly increase as a result. But even the Maps money is not in hand to be used yet, but is accrued as it is collected in a pay as you go model.

That is true, but Mr. Prater (with Councilman Marrs and Mayor Cornett nodding in agreement) said that if MAPS 3 passed, the use tax would guarantee that no public safety layoffs etc would happen (no matter what happened with sales tax collections). Along with the other public safety promises made during the campaign mentioned by others.

It is also true that Mr. Prater is not a City official but neither the Mayor or the Councilman corrected him (again, you can see them nodding in agreement in the video clip).

And before someone goes, “they never said that”, here it is...

MAPS 3 could generate public safety money, Oklahoma City says | NewsOK.com

Cornett said if MAPS 3 passes, the city WILL give MAPS 3 use tax revenue to public safety. ... “The MAPS use tax can be used to help ensure that public safety remains a top priority. We will not have that option if MAPS 3 does not pass,” Cornett said.
...
Prater, a former police officer, said the use tax plan guarantees no police officers will lose their jobs in the next two years. He also said the plan convinced him to support MAPS 3.

“My concern all along, as far as about a year ago, was talking about increasing our public safety and I believe this proposal right now does exactly that,” Prater said.

At the 1:15 mark in the video clip, Mr. Prater states:

I believe that the proposal through the MAPS 3 use tax, has done exactly that. It assures us that through the rest of this fiscal year and next fiscal year we will see no cuts of police officers. Period. No matter what we experience in our sales tax revenue shortfalls. In addition to that, they have proposed to add an additional 20 officers through MAPS use tax and an additional 7 officers through cop grants. So we are looking at a swing, a possible swing, of 50 officers over the next couple of years.

[rcjunkie]

Like I've stated over and over, I agree that the Mayor. Council and DA offered things that have yet to happen and probably never will, I don't agree with any cuts to Police or Fire, but I don't see what good it does to get your panties in a wad and constantly complain. If i were as unhappy about the situation as some, I would retire or resign and move on.

For years all departments have taken budget cuts (except Public Safety), now that the Mayor and Council have decided to include Public Safety in NECESSARY CUTS, they act as though the world is coming to an end.

[Mesta Parker]

"Do more with less" has been a requirement in the business world for the past 20 years. About time government catches on!

[Mikemarsh51]

Mesta Parker, you are so correct! The city is finally catching on to that. One minor detail. They collecting over 60 million a year in a special salex tax and general fund monies. They are doing less, yet still collecting the money as if they were doing more.

Don't pay any attention to RCJunkie, a fireman ran over his dog and a cop stole one of his girlfriends. He hates those guy's!

[bombermwc]

Actually, I'm with RC. You guys keep pissing and moaning when you already actually have a pretty cushy deal. I liken you to the GM union. They priced themselves out of business in how many cities?

There are COUNTLESS municipal employees that are having to do with FAAAAAR less than police and fire get compared to what they used to get. You go find me a water worker that is on cloud 9 about his job. Guess what, with the "less", they still managed to create the best tasting water in America. Hmm.

And those 20 people in the entire department....not gonna make a difference bud. Make it 100, and you'll see a big change, but it's not as though OCFD is having a hard time filling shifts around town.

As Mesta said, it's been the motto for everyone else in every other non-government job for decades. I'd love to have actual retirement and not have to work until I fall over from a heart attack at 90, but that's not going to happen. Thanks to the baby boomers, not only will my generation NOT get jack crap from social security, but we also have to pick up the pieces from all the crap in the world that was caused by those same people. The older I get, the more benefits are removed from jobs so the employee gets less and less. why? So the stockholder can make more, put it into some lame derrivitive, and lose it along with everyone else's money and crash the economy.

Thanks, but I and everyone else, have much larger concerns than listening to the freaking OCFD bitch about not getting something a politician "promised". What a concept, a politician not following through. I never knew that happened. Mick must be the first one ever!!!

[barnold]

RC,

Some choose to stand and fight for what is right, others choose to retire and hide at the lake behind a computer screen.

How would you know what is going on in the parks dept. and others? You posted that you hadn't talked with anyone in almost a year from there.

[td25er]

RC,

Some choose to stand and fight for what is right, others choose to retire and hide at the lake behind a computer screen.

How would you know what is going on in the parks dept. and others? You posted that you hadn't talked with anyone in almost a year from there.

Life's not fair. You can either worry and b*tch your life away, or you can move past it and enjoy life.

[OSUFan]

Not sure if I've ever seen a group more out of touch with average person in OKC.

[Mikemarsh51]

Bombermwc, I am sorry you settled for a mediocre work career. Maybe you should take RCJunkies advice and seek something else. Maybe you could make your job something better. I started at $5.18 an hour. The lowest paid entry level job in the city. You could retire at 20 years but couldnt draw a retirement check until you were 55. It's ok to work to make your conditions better, that is not a crime. I don't think its ok to be happy with whatever is thrown to you for scraps.

Let me say that Public safety jobs are not the same as office jobs. Call it pay differential if you will but there should be better pay for jobs where you risk your life and people want to kill you. Ask some of these wives how much they miss their husbands that didnt come home.

OSUfan I really don't believe you know what your talking about. I live in the area I work and I see a pretty good cross section of people rich and poor. There are dirtbag apartments at one end and half milliion dollar homes at the other end and I am in touch.

If you want to blame us for speaking out, I'd say maybe your the kind that let yourselves get pushed around. Make us the bad guys that's ok too, your city officials will think your awesome!

[metro]

FYI, they just started collecting MAPS3 tax last month, the Ford Center tax expired at the end of April.

[Platemaker]

Ahh... you beat me to it, metro!

[Mikemarsh51]

Which makes a great point! If that tax was just starting how do we know we need the police and firefighters to take pay cuts to hire more employees?