Council resolution to accept 5% paycut

[Mikemarsh51]

Last Tuesday ward 8 councilman Pat Ryan introduced a resolution for the City Council and Mayor to voluntarily take a 5% Pay cut. Because that was what they may ask the employees to do. I wonder why he didn't mention the city manager do the same thing? The city managers salary has gone from approx. $96,000.00 when hired 11 years ago to approx. $205,000.00 today. That would more than double the savings the council and mayor would give back.

[kevinpate]

If the council is considering imposing on city employees a 5% across the board cut, wouldn't that include the city manager at that time?

Maybe I'm just bleary eyed and noggin impaired but I'm not following your thought train on this one.

[possumfritter]

Are you kidding me...$205,000? How much does his Asst get?

[Steve]

This thread is based on bad information. According to archives, Couch started with a salary of about $130,000 when he was first named city manager. This job is akin to being CEO of a company with 4,500 employees. It is the norm, not the exception, to see Couch working nights and on weekends in addition to normal hours. And regardless of whether you like the decisions he makes, there's no arguing that it's a high-stress job. Further, we did an examination of city manager salaries several years ago and discovered they're pretty much in line with what you see elsewhere in the country.
I'm not going to argue whether Couch should be taking a pay cut - and I'm not at all sure he isn't. But I'll pipe up when I see outright bad information being posted on this site.
Context ... it's a wonderful thing.

[venture]

I think people tend to forget who is actually running the city (for the most part) in a weak mayor form of government.

[Mikemarsh51]

Steve, I am sorry that I got the starting salary wrong, that may have been what he was making at the water dept. Thank you for the correction. That is still a nice bunch of raises. Was I close on the current salary? Obviously with the rate of raises he is not on the same level as most employees. I doubt he will be subject to any cuts.

[Steve]

I don't know on the current salary, but it doesn't sound incorrect to me. As I said, I'm not weighing in on the debate over whether his salary should be cut with everybody else. But with all due respect, the way this thread was started left me feeling like some more accurate info and some context was needed. Your comments, in a way, mirror the same debate going on with corporate America, which is, needless to say, quite interesting.

[Mikemarsh51]

My point was the manager wasn't mentioned or did he say anything during the discussion.

[Spartan]

Mike, do you consider the city manager to be a city employee or not? lol

[mugofbeer]

MikeMarsh and all - remember in OKC, we use a council-manager form of government which means we have a "weak" mayor and the city manager is generally the one who essentially runs the city. The city manager in a city like ours probably does earn more than city managers of other cities around the country of similar size because ours has more responsibility. The other thing to point out is that to be a city manager of this type, you generally will always have a masters degree. Its a very specialized position that demands more education than most any in city government.

When I think back to the 1980's when streets were crumbling and city government was ripe with the "good-ole-boy" network, when parks weren't getting mowed, when residents along streets with medians had to mow the medians because they were only getting done once a month and when downtown was empty, I am happy to have a highly paid and highly qualified city manager.

[barnold]

To all:
So then, by the reasoning of what I'm seeing here, the city manager's salary should be based upon similar sized cities and responsibilities? I think that's is a reasonable way to approach his salary.

[mugofbeer]

My understandings is that is pretty much how it is done. If you go back and look at former city manager's and where they have gone, its either been where their pay was better or a bigger city. I think one or 2 have gone to Arlington, TX where the pay was better (might be mixing it up with heads of the OKC public schools).

[andy157]

If the council is considering imposing on city employees a 5% across the board cut, wouldn't that include the city manager at that time?

Maybe I'm just bleary eyed and noggin impaired but I'm not following your thought train on this one.

Kevinpate, it is my understanding that the City Council will be (if not already) considering a 12% reduction in wages and benefits based on a recomendation from Couch. In the end that 12% number could change, it could go down, I hope it does.

Hopefully, the best case would be zero cuts for anyone. In the end should that (zero cuts) not happen, and cuts are made, those cuts should be applied to everyone equally. That would include Couch due to the fact he is an employee (for spartan), as well as his 3 (for possumfitter) assistants.

I applaud Councilman Ryan for his symbolic resolution that the Council take a 5% cut in pay. However, if the Council wants to show the employees their willingness to share the burden I would think the Council's cut would be the same as the final number, what ever that may be. Furthermore, the Council's cut should be mandatory, not voluntary, unless of course all employees have that same option.

I can't speak as to Mike's train of thought but as he pointed out in his last post, the Manager was not mentioned, nor did he step up and claim that his wages and benefits would be cut just like any other employees may be.

What was interesting, though not surprising, and by the way, very telling, was the opposition to the 5% number in writing and included in the resolution. Wonder why that troubled management?

[andy157]

My understandings is that is pretty much how it is done. If you go back and look at former city manager's and where they have gone, its either been where their pay was better or a bigger city. I think one or 2 have gone to Arlington, TX where the pay was better (might be mixing it up with heads of the OKC public schools).

I believe your thinking about something different. Unless I'm wrong none of the last 4 went to be the C.M. in Arlington. There was, (1) Scott Johnson (?), (2) Terry Childress (private business), (3) Glen Deck (K.C.), (4) Don Bown (retired), (current) Jim Couch.

[OKCGUY3]

The City Manager deserves the pay he gets, no doubt. I agree that all city employees should be paid equally by comparison with what other like sized cities pay their employees. Can anyone tell me where our City employees fall in comparison to other cities liked size, maybe Austin or Kansas City perhaps? I do know that our City Manager has his salary based on a 10 City Average, so his salary is absolutely deserved in my opinion if it is within that average.

[mugofbeer]

I believe your thinking about something different. Unless I'm wrong none of the last 4 went to be the C.M. in Arlington. There was, (1) Scott Johnson (?), (2) Terry Childress (private business), (3) Glen Deck (K.C.), (4) Don Bown (retired), (current) Jim Couch.

Thats fine. I may be thinking of the School Super

[Steve]

Andy got it right. I think Johnson ended up somewhere in California.

[andy157]

The City Manager deserves the pay he gets, no doubt. I agree that all city employees should be paid equally by comparison with what other like sized cities pay their employees. Can anyone tell me where our City employees fall in comparison to other cities liked size, maybe Austin or Kansas City perhaps? I do know that our City Manager has his salary based on a 10 City Average, so his salary is absolutely deserved in my opinion if it is within that average.

It's true that our City Manager's salary is based upon a 10 City average. If the City Managers pay is fair. If the City Manager deserves the pay he gets. If the City Managers pay is based upon the pay of other City Managers in a market made up from Cities of like size. Then why does the City Manager want to abolish that exact same method for determining the pay for the Firefighters and Police Officers of this City? That would seem to be a bit hypocritical.

[Steve]

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooo........ Andy, you sure about that? I'm getting out the popcorn. This ought to be good.

[rcjunkie]

Personally, I think it's premature and a little on the ridiculous side to chastise Couch at this time, wait until the budget process concludes, read the fine print, and then complain if necessary.

[Larry OKC]

...What was interesting, though not surprising, and by the way, very telling, was the opposition to the 5% number in writing and included in the resolution. Wonder why that troubled management?

As the Mayor put it, it was because at this point, they don't know how much the cuts will end up being. May be the oft mentioned 12% cut. May be more than 5%, may be less. That was countered with they could change the % amount as needed (also remember this is voluntary and non-binding).

Even with the reservations by some about putting a specific amount in, all present Council voted for it (except for "Skip" Kelly who was strongly opposed)

[workman45]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Larry OKC]

Oklahoma City Council to review City Manager's performance, salary, | Journal Record, The (Oklahoma City) | Find Articles at BNET

Oklahoma City Council to review City Manager's performance, salary, and benefits (Journal Record, 12/21/04)

City Clerk Frances Kersey confirmed Couch's current pay rate is $156,000, with an annual allowance of $7,000 for personal expenses associated with the job.

Couch hasn't received a pay adjustment since 2001, which raised him from his starting pay of $133,500 to where he is now.

Of course, Steve's number was correct. Obviously an older article but recall the City manager getting a hefty raise last year or the year before (if I recall correctly, the raise was higher than the median Oklahoman's income). The $200,000+ figure seems correct from what I remember. Can't locate that article now or recent salary numbers for the City manager. If anyone has...

[OKCGUY3]

Couch has been our best City Manager ever! NO way would he want to do away with a system of pay justification for other city employees, that is identical to the way his compensation is calculated. That just wouldn't seem right! Please, someone, say it ain't so! As for the City Council's 5%, it seems funny to me that they are comparing a $400 a year pay cut from their "volunteer/elected public servant position" to someone elses much larger cut to their only source of income to provide food and shelter for their families. Really, this is like any other lawyer, business owner, etc... saying I will quit cut my golfing fund or Starbucks habit by a few dollars while they ask their employees to give up a house payment every month. I can't fall for the "we are doing our part to help" from the city council on this one! Their action is symbolic, I get it. But asking that single mom or struggling family to give up a substantial amount of their income for the sake of saving a few dollars from the contingency fund, special projects fund, rainy day fund, money in my friend's pocket fund, etc..... is not symbolic. It is life altering. If the economy doesn't turn around, if the $50 plus million dollars unincumbered is depleted, if we can't afford to finance a study for a fancy racing program, if we can't afford to hire MORE lawyers from city funds, then come to the employees and ask for help.

[andy157]

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooo........ Andy, you sure about that? I'm getting out the popcorn. This ought to be good.

I'm positive. Eliminating the "Market Approach" for determining wage rates for Firefighters has been priority 1 for management at the bargaining table for the last 5 or 6 years. Management claims to have been given this directive by the Council. Of course the Council gave management that directive based upon the managements recomendation that they do so.

In fact the current fiasco surrounding the FY/09-10 negotiations/arbitration/court case/vote, stems entirely around the City's bad faith effort to strike the "Market" language from the contract. So here we are.