Harrah's Casino coming to OKC?

[Patrick]

This article was in Luke's blog entry from Sunday. Please check out Luke's blog at www.theoklahoman.blogspot.com.

"Harrah's Casino in OKC?
Tonight, a buddy and I went to the Kickapoo Casino in, ironically, Harrah, Oklahoma. While we were waiting to sign up for the Texas Hold 'Em Poker Tournament the guy next to me was talking about a rumor he had heard about Harrah's Casino and Hotel interested in putting a development along the Oklahoma River in OKC. I asked him where he heard it and he couldn't remember. Interestingly, a couple hours later a different guy said he had heard the same thing. So, I wonder who is spreading this rumor?

I emailed Harrah's. I'll report any response I get. "

So, what do you guys think?

[mranderson]

No surprise. Harrah's is always looking for markets to bring casinos.

Some are fairly small, but most include a hotel and several restaurants. I hope ours is the latter.

[floater]

Adding a bookstore and a casino would neatly fill Bricktown's activity void. But a casino would generate so much life on its own, like Bass Pro, that it would instantly create the need for a parking garage if placed in Lower Bricktown. I'm still stilling holding out that a bookstore would be great to fill the upper floors in the warehouses in Bricktown proper.

[mranderson]

Adding a bookstore and a casino would neatly fill Bricktown's activity void. But a casino would generate so much life on its own, like Bass Pro, that it would instantly create the need for a parking garage if placed in Lower Bricktown. I'm still stilling holding out that a bookstore would be great to fill the upper floors in the warehouses in Bricktown proper.

I hope they build on the lot at SW15 and Portland. Nothing like cruising to the casino during lunch at Dell.

[floater]

I hope they build on the lot at SW15 and Portland. Nothing like cruising to the casino during lunch at Dell.

With a jet ski you can really cruise to the casino in Bricktown during lunchtime.

[mranderson]

With a jet ski you can really cruise to the casino in Bricktown during lunchtime.

Or any other registered trademark brand water craft.

[Midtowner]

Adding a bookstore and a casino would neatly fill Bricktown's activity void. But a casino would generate so much life on its own, like Bass Pro, that it would instantly create the need for a parking garage if placed in Lower Bricktown. I'm still stilling holding out that a bookstore would be great to fill the upper floors in the warehouses in Bricktown proper.

I'm concerned that if a casino does open on the river too far away from Bricktown, it will spur a Bricktown-like development on the river that may do a lot of damage to Bricktown and downtown development in general. I believe this is one of the concerns that the Mayor outlined in his speach.

[Nuclear_2525]

Am I stupid or will this never happen since Harrah's isn't an indian owned casino? I thought only Indian tribes could open casinos on their reservations in Oklahoma?

[Midtowner]

Am I stupid or will this never happen since Harrah's isn't an indian owned casino? I thought only Indian tribes could open casinos on their reservations in Oklahoma?

Harrah's could still manage a tribal Casino. Under an agreement between them and the Indians, they could still take a fee or a percentage of the revenue for managing the property.

[swake]

Harrah’s does manage an Indian casino in Topeka. I think for the Shawnee tribe.

Won’t happen in OKC though, the casino has to be on Federally reserved land in the national area for whatever tribe is backing the casino. Central Oklahoma is not in any of the tribes national areas since it was reserved for whites, the whole land run thing, remember?

Tulsa has three tribal nations in it, the Osage in Northwest Tulsa just outside of downtown, The Cherokees generally north of I-244 and the Creeks south of I-244. Black Gold Casinos is the company that will finance, build and manage the new Creek casino on Riverside in Tulsa where their dump of a casino now sits. I think the Cherokees did their casino all on their own and the Osages have a company building and running their new casino in Sand Springs and one being built now in northwest Tulsa. I don’t remember who that company is though.

[mranderson]

"won't happen" should not be in anyones dialouge. It is possible that Harrah's could get permission to locate a casino on the river. Or, it could be on Indian land in the metro. From what I read, there was no mention in the rumors as to where in the city it would be located.

[Patrick]

Yeah, for many years, everyone said the lottery "wouldn't happen." Thanks to Brad Henry, the lottery is a go, and you'll be able to buy lottery tickets this fall.

[swake]

Then let's say it's going to take a change in the state constitution.

[floater]

Then let's say it's going to take a change in the state constitution.

...which can be amended.

I'm concerned that if a casino does open on the river too far away from Bricktown, it will spur a Bricktown-like development on the river that may do a lot of damage to Bricktown and downtown development in general. I believe this is one of the concerns that the Mayor outlined in his speach.

I have faith that Hogan (if he owns that land) and city planners will work things out to where such a development does not form a rival cluster. So far, the components in Lower Bricktown have complemented Bricktown. Besides, that stretch between Lower Bricktown and the river can still be considered downtown. Also, there are still quite a few elements that downtown lacks (housing, groceries, specialized retail, street cafes, resident services, etc) and when they do come, not all of them will be situated along the canal.

[metro]

I'm concerned that if a casino does open on the river too far away from Bricktown, it will spur a Bricktown-like development on the river that may do a lot of damage to Bricktown and downtown development in general. I believe this is one of the concerns that the Mayor outlined in his speach.

Midtowner, you nailed it! The Mayor, Council, and advisors specifically mentioned that this is one thing we want to avoid. The last thing any major city, especially one that does not have natural boundaries and can continue suburban sprawl is to create areas or "two downtowns or bricktowns" and take away incentives, investments, and jobs from downtown and the inner city.

[okcpulse]

I believe we on this forum need to push the developers who plan residential development downtown to get on the ball, because that is exactly what Bricktown is missing. Then will come the bookstore, and coffee shops, and gourmet food markets.

[Midtowner]

Then let's say it's going to take a change in the state constitution.

The city *could* annex land to a tribe.

I'm not sure who would have to assent to that, but it is a possibility. Most likely, such an operation would be done under a very unique agreement. Maybe we could write into the contract that the land would belong to the tribe "As long as the grass shall grow"... Am I a sick person for even suggesting that?

[mranderson]

How can the city annex a tribe? Makes no sense.

They could donate land along the river to a tribe, making it legal for Harrah's to open with the Tribal pact.

[Midtowner]

How can the city annex a tribe? Makes no sense.

They could donate land along the river to a tribe, making it legal for Harrah's to open with the Tribal pact.

Pleas reread. I said annex TO a tribe.

Yes, that also means they could donate it. Such a donation/annexation, however would have a lot of strings attached I'm sure. I don't want some tribe or tribal association coming here and starting a downtown indian smokeshop or something like that.

[mranderson]

Pleas reread. I said annex TO a tribe.

Yes, that also means they could donate it. Such a donation/annexation, however would have a lot of strings attached I'm sure. I don't want some tribe or tribal association coming here and starting a downtown indian smokeshop or something like that.

Symantics.

[swake]

Well, good luck.

Since OKC is not in the boundaries of any tribal nation, any tribe that tried to get the BIA to reserve land in OKC would have to show historical ties to the area, pre-european immigration. I don’t know that any tribe can make that claim, but I don’t know that there isn’t one that can either. Even if you find one and they agree, then there’s a particular congressman you are going to have to fight. He has a bill in congress right now to limit any new reserved land. Your very own Ernest Istook. He is strongly supported by our very own brand spanking new senator and fighter of spreading lesbianism Dr Tom!

And even if you get it reserved, I don’t think Oklahoma has any rights to control what is done with the land. Oklahoma went through that a couple years ago with some land in Miami with one of the tribes there that had gotten land reserved with the understanding a casino would not be opened. And then they did open a casino and the state could do nothing because reserved land isn’t technically in the state any longer.

You have a better shot of changing the state constitution by holding a statewide vote to allow non-tribal casinos.

[Midtowner]

Well, good luck.

Since OKC is not in the boundaries of any tribal nation, any tribe that tried to get the BIA to reserve land in OKC would have to show historical ties to the area, pre-european immigration. I don’t know that any tribe can make that claim, but I don’t know that there isn’t one that can either. Even if you find one and they agree, then there’s a particular congressman you are going to have to fight. He has a bill in congress right now to limit any new reserved land. Your very own Ernest Istook. He is strongly supported by our very own brand spanking new senator and fighter of spreading lesbianism Dr Tom!

And even if you get it reserved, I don’t think Oklahoma has any rights to control what is done with the land. Oklahoma went through that a couple years ago with some land in Miami with one of the tribes there that had gotten land reserved with the understanding a casino would not be opened. And then they did open a casino and the state could do nothing because reserved land isn’t technically in the state any longer.

You have a better shot of changing the state constitution by holding a statewide vote to allow non-tribal casinos.

I concur as to allowing non-tribal Casinos. I think such development if done right could really help our tourism industry out. If we're looking at another anchor for Bricktown, a Harrah's or other type of Casino would be it! Maybe Gaylord Hotels would even open up a hotel/casino down there (of course with that name, and that family's influence, you know the tax payers would be paying for it).

I've said it many times though, we already have casino gaming in Oklahoma in the form of physical Casinos within 30-minutes of most everyone in the MSAs. We also have internet gaming, so really, gambling is no further away than your nearest internet connected PC. I think the state is missing out bigtime by not moving this direction.

[okcpulse]

I'll put my money on Winstar Casino Resort. They have a 200 room hotel AND a 500 room hotel planned, plus a golf course. It's 90 minutes south of OKC, but Winstar serves both OKC and Dallas.

Thunderbird Wild West Casino is too far in the sticks on a highway I hate to drive on, and Lucky Star sits in the middle of nowhere on US 81.

[mranderson]

I'll put my money on Winstar Casino Resort. They have a 200 room hotel AND a 500 room hotel planned, plus a golf course. It's 90 minutes south of OKC, but Winstar serves both OKC and Dallas.

Thunderbird Wild West Casino is too far in the sticks on a highway I hate to drive on, and Lucky Star sits in the middle of nowhere on US 81.

For those of us who calculate distance in miles, it is aporximatly 100 miles from Oklahoma City.

Yes, Thrunderbird is a VERY long drive and does not look like a real casino.

[USG'86]

I remember a story in the Oklahoman reporting a native family sold an acre or two for something outrageous like 2 million for the purpose of building a casino in OKlahoma City. I recall the location and time the article came out well. The location was just west of May Ave, just south of the river. The article came out within a couple days either side of the day the Columbia came apart over Dallas. It was the last week of January, 2003.

The location is very close to the Dell area, but a few acres wouldn't be nearly big enough for Harrah's, unless they went straight up. However, it may lend credibility to the possibility that tribal lands within Oklahoma City could be used for a casino.

Maybe if someone here has access to the Oklahoman archives, they could provide more insight to the article.