City Manager didn't know there was a problem?

[OKCGUY3]

Did anyone see the Channel 9 story about Fire station #7 being closed for the last year and a half? The City Manager actualy said that he didn't know there was a problem with station #7. I think that is horrible not to know that a fire station has been shut down for over a year in a city that you are responsible for. I wonder if he knows about the other fire station #6 that has been closed down for 6 months as well. I am not good with links but I am sure someone can post the story on here. And why is the City manager waiting until next week to decide on his plan to lay off 40 firefighters?

[flintysooner]

I saw it and paid attention because I like to eat lunch often at Grill on the Hill.

I understand Couch to mean that he found it surprising that the issue of the station was raised at this particular time (just before the MAPS 3 vote). There were structural problems with the station.

Of course I suppose closing it for structural reasons is better than letting the firemen burn it down as in another recently publicized incident at another station. (Just kidding folks)

[kevinpate]

I saw the story, but did not come away from that broadcast with the interpretation you did. Not even close.

[OKCGUY3]

It is my understeanding after re-watching the video, that plans have been approved to fix station #7. That is great. But it also said that the bid process was 90% complete? Does it really take a year and a half to get bids to fix a city building? What takes that long, beurocracy? ( I am sure I spelled that wrong )

[soonerguru]

Last second smear campaign?

FAIL

NTM is LOSING, and they are now going full-on with the smears.

[OKCGUY3]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize we couldn't talk about real issues in the city without it being redirected to a Maps discussion. I know the story says something about Maps, but my thread is strictly about the Fire station issue and the City manager's response. Vote however you want on Maps. Not interested indiscussing it here. I was simply pointing out something that caught my attention and seemed like a real issue.

[bluedogok]

It can take awhile, especially when you are dealing with the snails pace at which gov'ts operate. It takes awhile for the city to develop the proposal, post the RFQ, the RFQ review period, RFQ acceptance and negotiations with the selected engineer. Then you have to do a thorough structural investigation/testing and mitigation design with several city reviews along the way. Then you have to assess the budget and what is a need versus what is desired to stay in budget. Then you go through the whole bid process again with contractors before you can start anything.

[andy157]

Last second smear campaign?

FAIL

NTM is LOSING, and they are now going full-on with the smears.

The YFM side has ran smear ads haven't they?

[soonerguru]

The YFM side has ran smear ads haven't they?

Nope.

Next.

[Midtowner]

The YFM side has ran smear ads haven't they?

All of their ads have been pretty positive.

What individuals say on the internet can't be controlled.

(see the 'no' side's iron, for example)

[Mikemarsh51]

Here is a little tidbit for you. Station 4 and station 6 were voted on in the 2000 G.O. bond to relocate. Station 4 and station 7 are ready to go and are funded. About 1.8 million to rebuild #7 and about 3.4 million to relocate and rebuild #4. Both of them were delayed because the city applied for Stimulus money to fund them. Both were considered shovel ready and both were declined. As of today no work done on #6 and #7 and #4 has the foundation poured. #4 and #6 originally were slated to cost approx. 1.8 million each. The city put the projects off so long that the cost's have almost doubled, I would call that something, I'm not sure what, but it's not good to wait so long the cost's double. I wonder how long it would have taken if we weren't the cities number 1 priority?

[betts]

Casts have doubled? That seems odd given the low inflation rate in the last decade and the fact that with the recession material and labor costs have fallen.

[Doug Loudenback]

The YFM side has ran smear ads haven't they?

One the positives to come out of the MAPS 3 deal for me personally has been the making of a new friend, that being you, my friend. But, Andy, I had the impression from the 11/13 press conference, generally (even though he said several things that just didn't compute), and also as influenced by what you said to me, that Sipe was a guy who stood tall, with dignity and class.

This particular item and use of same in the campaign was not his finest hour. I'd just as soon leave it at that without further elaboration, unless pressed.

[Doug Loudenback]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize we couldn't talk about real issues in the city without it being redirected to a Maps discussion. I know the story says something about Maps, but my thread is strictly about the Fire station issue and the City manager's response. Vote however you want on Maps. Not interested indiscussing it here. I was simply pointing out something that caught my attention and seemed like a real issue.

If the item really IS a real issue, why in god's green earth did it not rear its head quite some time ago? Do you think that some epiphany suddenly occurred on the eve of the vote?

The union's general position, in the main, is not credible and is disingenuous. I've already written about this and no need exists to elaborate again, unless pressed.

[rcjunkie]

If the item really IS a real issue, why in god's green earth did it not rear its head quite some time ago? Do you think that some epiphany suddenly occurred on the eve of the vote?

The union's general position, in the main, is not credible and is disingenuous. I've already written about this and no need exists to elaborate again, unless pressed.

[andy157]

Nope.

Next.

Your right I should have said misleading and/or false. Sorry

[andy157]

Casts have doubled? That seems odd given the low inflation rate in the last decade and the fact that with the recession material and labor costs have fallen.

I see where your coming from betts. But MM51 is right. The BT station was voted on in 2000 in the amount of $1,875,000. It was funded 2 or 3 years later, as of 2 or 3 weeks ago according to a City Manager report the estimated construction cost now stands at $3,500.00. give or take a 100 grand. It's a matter of public record.

That is a point I've been trying to make from day 1. But nobody seems to think much of it, or even care for that matter. This is one of the reasons I've opposed MAPS 3 from the beginning, long before all this P & F stuff hit the scene.

[Larry OKC]

Casts have doubled? That seems odd given the low inflation rate in the last decade and the fact that with the recession material and labor costs have fallen.

That is apparently what has happened. He has brought this up before and posted the source material (2000 bond issue and the City Budgets). Have to remember that construction costs have indeed gone up in the past decade. During the Ford vote, the Mayor's office said that to build the Ford EXACTLY as it was (5 years later), had a significant cost increase (I don't have the number in front of me but if memory serves it was about double too). It is true that some construction costs have gone down in the past year (see Practice Facility).

Also have to remember the true cost of any bond issue project. Anything paid with bonds are a long term debt that has to be paid back with interest. According to an old MAPS article, a $10M bond (to deal with cost over runs on the Library) was to have a $1M/year "debt service" for the next 20 years (unclear if that $20M includes the original $10M borrowed or is just the interest being paid back). At the very least, it is costing you double whatever the stated amount. So if the stated costs have doubled from the original, throw in the "debt service" amount...

[LakeEffect]

It can take awhile, especially when you are dealing with the snails pace at which gov'ts operate. It takes awhile for the city to develop the proposal, post the RFQ, the RFQ review period, RFQ acceptance and negotiations with the selected engineer. Then you have to do a thorough structural investigation/testing and mitigation design with several city reviews along the way. Then you have to assess the budget and what is a need versus what is desired to stay in budget. Then you go through the whole bid process again with contractors before you can start anything.

I think scope change has something to do with Station 6 (Bricktown). More things wanted than originally planned...

[andy157]

I think scope change has something to do with Station 6 (Bricktown). More things wanted than originally planned...

I believe that's a valid point, I'm sure they have added a few goodies that would cause a cost increase. But double, I wouldn't think so. I know they figure in a % of the projections for a cushion, and I'm sure they have made a little interest. I could be wrong, but I can't imagine those 2 making up the $1.6 mil. Where will it come from. Something or someone is going to pay for it. I see no reason why the same won't be true for the N.E. station, so now were in the hole $3.2 mil.

[Steve]

Did anyone see the Channel 9 story about Fire station #7 being closed for the last year and a half? The City Manager actualy said that he didn't know there was a problem with station #7.

I'm staying out of all these debates. But I'm going to speak out when something is outright wrong. I watched the report. Jim Couch was clearly aware of Station 7 being closed. He told the reporter it wasn't until their interview that he had heard of this being a problem for the firefighters union and that they hadn't cited it in talks with him.

I'm done. Everybody can now proceed in turning OKC into another Tulsa (through the tone of debate by all sides)

[lump9816]

If that's what he said then Couch told a big fib. He and the rest of the city council have known about this from day one. I mean come on, one of your fire stations gets condemned and he didn' know about it?

[rcjunkie]

For goodness sake lump9816, PAY ATTENTION, the City Manager stated that he knew it had been condemned, and plans were in place to repair it, what he said was that the Union had never voiced any concern to him about the delay in repairs, even though they have serveral meetings about numerous issues.

Do you now understand or should we type slower.

[Wambo36]

For goodness sake lump9816, PAY ATTENTION, the City Manager stated that he knew it had been condemned, and plans were in place to repair it, what he said was that the Union had never voiced any concern to him about the delay in repairs, even though they have serveral meetings about numerous issues.

Do you now understand or should we type slower.

rcjunkie, we understand that you are retired from city management. We've got that. You couldn't be any clearer. I would like to see if the city managers lips move when the words come out of your mouth though.
You can type as slow as you want, it won't be any more believable.

[mugofbeer]

rcjunkie, we understand that you are retired from city management. We've got that. You couldn't be any clearer. I would like to see if the city managers lips move when the words come out of your mouth though.
You can type as slow as you want, it won't be any more believable.

I believe his point is that what was claimed by the author of this thread has been pretty much debunked but the later poster appeared to ignore that fact.