Video Tour of Bricktown Retail

[Steve]

I've been thinking a lot about how everyone knocks Bricktown for not having any retail. But have you ever considered what shops are open and what they offer?
Moderators, I've tried to post the videos here but without any luck and would be happy to have the videos reposted here at www.okctalk.com. In the meantime, you can watch the videos, including the latest on the Bricktown Candy Co., at http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/20...cktown-retail/

[Doug Loudenback]

Steve, the only videos that can be inserted in this forum are YouTube videos. That's because the forum's software has html code turned OFF.

[Pete]

Thanks for that, Steve.

Just points out there are lots of great local enterprises around downtown that need our support.

[Steve]

Pete, for what it's worth, because the videos come with ads, I'm pretty sure The Oklahoman is cool with them being reposted. I really tried to figure out how to get them posted directly on this site, but to no avail

[Pete]

BTW, the reason we don't enable HTML in the forums is because to do so would seriously compromise the security of the site.

This recommendation comes in the strongest possible terms from vBulletin customer support.

[Steve]

That makes a lot of sense.

[bbhill]

Great videos.

Got me hungry for gummy bears. grr

[BailJumper]

But have you ever considered what shops are open and what they offer?

Yeah, I consider them lousy and no draw at all. You can get $200 jeans or tourist crap. I've walked Bricktown many times and the criticism is there for a reason. There is no substantial retail in Bricktown. But I blame the property owners who think their property is lined in gold and want unreasonable rent rates. But, who am I to vent? I'm just a consumer.

[metro]

I'm with BDP. While it is important to support what we have, it's kitche stuff for the most part and not real retail that will draw.

[Steve]

What kind of retail do you want down there?

[metro]

I know myself as well as many others are anti-chain when possible (mainly for restaurants), but when it comes to clothing, most people like designer labels, not mom and pop clothing or handmade tourist knick-knack items. Sorry, but for downtown retail to take off, we're going to have to see some major retailers (Barnes & Noble, Express, Gap, Armani Exchange, Blockbuster, Victorias Secret, Steve Madden, Apple Store, H&M, and other major retailers that we have and don't have.) We need a mix of things we do have that are common and people can come downtown to shop (or us downtowners don't have to leave downtown to get decent clothing) as well (remember thousands of visitors and conventioners are used to these brands and have money they want to blow), as well as we need a mix of retailers that we don't have in this market yet that will be a regional draw for locals.

[Steve]

OK, but here's the thing. If you want books, the Red Dirt Emporium has a decent selection of local books - it's a s start. Ditto for DVDs and music. If you're looking for Blockbuster to open up downtown, you're going to be disappointed. This is a chain that is likely going to disappear all together. As for some of the other names - geez, it sounds like a suburban mall metro.

[metro]

Thats where people shop, at name brand retailers. I think you're missing my point. Yes ideally we want unique local shops and high end national retailers, but to get those, again we can hash this out until eternity, but it's chicken and egg, you won't get high end or enough locals, without safe national names like Gap, Express, Victorias Secret, Barnes & Noble, etc. No offense to Urbanized, but you can't compare Red Dirt to Barnes & Noble or Full Circle.

[Steve]

I disagree. The egg is local. And what it will take is someone to go out and recruit the right mix of local retail and for building owners to be realistic in lease prices (something I'm starting to see some movement on). And nobody is comparing to Red Dirt to Barnes & Noble or Full Circle. But I think if someone were smart and added a used book store down there, you could have a pretty decent shopping experience in terms of book buying. When I travel, I have no desire to shop at the stores you mention.

[Pete]

Local owners are far more likely to be urban pioneers on the retail front, as they want to be part of an area of town, have a passion for these neighborhoods, fall in love with a particular building, etc.

When it comes to site selection for chains, it's pure, heartless demographic analysis.

And we all know that the numbers in OKC's core right now do not add up.


Thank goodness for the locals that are already downtown. They are the ones trying to get a foothold and form a foundation that others can build upon.

[Steve]

Here's what I see coming over the next couple of years - IF - AND ONLY IF - people support the retailers already downtown. I see a used bookstore. I see some antiques and collectables stores. I see more local clothing stores (I'm not sure why LIT didn't work when it was ok in Deep Deuce for a couple years. Clayton's simply missed the market). I see opportunities for the kind of stores Metro would thumb his nose at but tourists want -stores that sell Western wear and trinkets, stuff like that. I even see the potential for a niche toy store.

[CCOKC]

What about art galleries? I am thinking about places like Taos NM or Eureka Springs AR.

[Steve]

Bricktown has had them before and they weren't supported. There is one artist with a small shop now in the Miller Jackson building next to Hooters.

[BailJumper]

I'm with Metro.

Steve, I appreciate your sentiment but that artsy dreamy mushy Bricktown you envision will never arrive.

Personally, I want to see a CVS or Walgreens in the immediate downtown area soon.

"Used book store"? Talk about your dying niche retailers. A used book store would never be able to pay their rent in Bricktown. I would however support a B&N with coffee shop.

We need one building with a visionary owner to push to get 7-8 retailers to all open at the same time. That means great marketing to both chains and local owners and offering rent incentives to get them to open shop. With a retail core in one building you might be able to assure that most, if not all, survive.

[Steve]

I'm not saying that's the mix I want; I'm saying that's what I suspect we'll see based on various conversations and observations.
Will we ever see a CVS or Walgreens downtown? Not sure. Maybe more likely in the Oklahoma Health Center. But even that would be a deviation from their required minimum rooftops.
You can be with Metro - that doesn't bother me. But there's a fundamental disconnect between the perception of retail development displayed by posters on this site and from what I hear talking to developers and retail experts.

[BailJumper]

Hmmm, and which is more critical to successful retail? "Developers" and "retail experts" or consumer perception? I firmly believe perception is the reality. If people perceive Bricktown has no convenient parking, it doesn't matter that there is actually an abundance of parking, people will avoid Bricktown because of the perception.

If consumers perceive there is no retail in Bricktown then consumers will not specifically go to Bricktown for shopping.

I've been in Red Dirt and do not believe for a second they've ever been profitable.

[Steve]

No doubt consumer perception is important, Bailjumper. But sometimes I see things on this board that aren't well rooted in reality. Sorry if I've got to be the guy who throws out the challenges and questions, but it's in my DNA.

[evh5150]

in order for any retail to really take off..its going to have to all be clustered together and easily accessible from the epicenter of bricktown..especially, be convienently accessible from the canal.

what i envision that would work would be either a two or three tier/storied crescent-shaped large pedestrian-only brick & mortar (ala bricktown style) shopping center enclave on opposite sides of the canal and are linked together by a large, wide pedestrian-only bridge that spans over the canal. each enclave would feature about 10 shops on each story, so you could have either 20 stores, or 30 stores on each side of the canal. there would be wide staircases to get to the upper floors, and concrete ramps for the handicapped.or maybe just do without the stairs altogether and just use the gently ascending ramps for all.



the bridge spanning over the canal would be of a transparent material (glass, fiberglass, etc) that would allow shoppers to see boats passing underneath them as the make their way over to the opposite crescent's shops. the bridge would be adorned with florescent pastel neon lights at night and some moderate plants along the bridge.

this whole center should be built within close proximity of the harkins theatres and nearby restaurants, so it can benefit from their current traffic, and also add a surge to their existing sales as well.

at the top of each building crescent, there would be a large illuminated marquee facade that would say something like "The Shops at Bricktown" or "Bricktown Plaza" etc

[metro]

I'm not saying that's the mix I want; I'm saying that's what I suspect we'll see based on various conversations and observations.
Will we ever see a CVS or Walgreens downtown? Not sure. Maybe more likely in the Oklahoma Health Center. But even that would be a deviation from their required minimum rooftops.
You can be with Metro - that doesn't bother me. But there's a fundamental disconnect between the perception of retail development displayed by posters on this site and from what I hear talking to developers and retail experts.

No offense, but doesn't this statement somewhat contradict your other statement above? Also I'm pretty sure the HSC already has Walgreens, just inside existing buildings. Most people don't know St. Anthony's has two Walgreens inside their physicians buildings.

I disagree. The egg is local. And what it will take is someone to go out and recruit the right mix of local retail and for building owners to be realistic in lease prices (something I'm starting to see some movement on).

[Patrick]

I'm somewhat torn on this issue. Although I'd prefer for Bricktown to be made up of mostly local tenants, I think we might need a few more national retailers to locate downtown to serve as retail anchors. I think a CVS/Walgreens located on the canal (San Antonio has one) would be a good option. At the same time though, think of any downtown, mainstreet America, and you don't see stores you'd find in any suburban mall. You usually see local restaurants, local dime stores and pharmacies, local hardware stores, local clothing stores, etc.