Apple Store coming to Penn Square- confirmed

[Patrick]

I mentioned the Apple Store rumor to those "in the know" at Penn Square, and they confirmed that Apple was most likely coming to Penn....so the rumor site was right on! Please note that this is privileged information and shouldn't be shared with anyone. To cover mall management, I provided them with the rumor, and they just confirmed in a nonspecific manner.

-------------
The reply (I'm being non specific to protect the lease):

"Interesting... That's information that I'm not allowed to release. The
lease is still in final negotiations but it looks fairly solid. I can't
say where the store will go since it involves moving another tenant."

[Patrick]

I guess this is the big news that was referred to in the other thread! Great job Luke.....thanks for bringing up the rumor site. It allowed me to tease it out of him!

I wonder which tenant will be moving to make space for Apple.....

Well, we know Pac Sun is moving over by Hollister, but Landdeck told me that he doesn't have any tenants for that space yet. The old Successories space is available, but I doubt it's big enough.

My money is on the space between UJ Toys and Hot Topic. A temporary tenant (All Wireless) is leasing half of that space, and they could be easily relocated. The other half was being used as seasonal store space.....the calendar store just finished up there. That combined space used to be home to Modern Woman, a larger woman's clothing store. That's the only space I can think of that would be suitable and has a tenant currently occupying it. It's right across from Electronics Boutique and Suncoast Motion Picture....probably a draw for Apple to locate there.

Another option would be the old Kabet's location where the zoo store was this year, although I still don't think that's a large enough space. Plus the space is currently empty, so there's no tenant to move out.

That's just my guess on location though.....it hasn't been confirmed.

From what I've heard though Penn Square's waiting list for permanent tenants has gotten longer....retailers are just waiting for the appropriate spaces to open up.

Penn Square takes a long time to lease a space out permanently, but that's because they want to negotiate with the best clients. I think Apple will be an awesome addition to the mall.

Luke, metro, floater, and others.....what do you think about Apple probably moving to Penn Square?

[Luke]

Patrick, thanks for digging for that info. I am so pumped that an Apple Store is (most likely) coming to Penn Square Mall. It will be a great addition to that mall.

Patrick, you may find this an interesting read. It talks about how Apple decides where to locate a store. Interestingly, they use Penn Square Mall as an example:

http://www.ifoapplestore.com/stores/store_sites.html

Apparently, they need 3,500 sf in a box shape (not L) and in a good location. Perhaps mall management will shuffle some thing around to get Apple into what I consider to be the premier wing of the mall - the wing with Pottery Barn, Dillards (women), Express, Abercrombie, Pepperoni Grill... Or, maybe they can get them around center court. Apple is picky about stuff like that. For what its worth, I think the worst wing of the mall is the one with the movie theater (which isn't bad... it just doesn't "fit" with the rest of the mall).

On another note, Patrick, you had mentioned awhile back that Penn Square didn't want to get a big movie theater because that wasn't their clientele and that made sense at the time. But, they have a movie theater. Is there any chance they would clear that out? I know it would probably be expensive, but that is a big enough area that, if cleared out, could be another anchor. Or is mall management pretty dead set on keeping a theater in the mall?

[metro]

Very interesting information. It doesn't surprise me if the do come to Penn, its long overdue and the best fit for Apple, at least for now. Maybe in a year or two we can get one downtown. Im sure its a done deal for Penn.

[Midtowner]

It's probably a better fit at Penn Square than it would be downtown. At least for now.

[Patrick]

The reason I used the terms "most likely" is because the lease hasn't been signed yet, but I think it's pretty much a done deal.

I'm still betting it's the space between Hot Topic and UJ Toys. It's large enough and square. Plus, as I said, it's close to other electronics stores. But, you never know.

Overall, downstairs is more prime retail than upstairs. That's why you find the better stores downtstairs. As Luke mentioned, the most upscale wing is the lower level west wing, with J. Crew, Ann Taylor, Brookstone, Bachrach, Mimi Maternity, Pottery Barn and Pottery Barn Kids, The Limited, J. Jill, BC Clark, Body Shop, Chicos, Crabtree and Evelyn, Mr. Oooleys, Rockport, etc. The center court is also prime retail with Mont Blonc, Cache, Brighton, Coldwater Creek, soon to be White House/Black Market, Petite Sophisticate, Casual Corner, Wilson's Leather, etc.

I just don't think any of those long term leases will be willing to give up their space. The only store moving from such an area is OU/OSU A Store Divided, and they were on a temporary lease.

By the way, thanks Luke for the great link. I actually forwarded to mall management.

[Patrick]

Luke, you commented about the movie theater wing. I agree with you on it probably being the worst wing of the mall. Downstairs isn't bad.....has Carlotte Rouse, J's Hallmark, Motherhood Maternity, Things Remembered, Origins, Overland Trading (Shoes), etc. But, upstairs I could take or leave. Champs, GNC, Naturalizer, Regis Hair Stylists, T-Mobile, Select Comfort, etc. I suppose the only decent stores up there IMO are Journeys, Coldstone Creamery, and Fast Forward, but those are closer to Center Court.
Having JC Penney anchor that wing doesn't help the fact. Replacing JC Penney with a more upscale anchor would help remedy the problem.

Personally, I'd love to see a Saks move where JC Penny is now, and a Nordstroms or Macy's move where Dillards East is right now. Won't happen though.

Now, about the theater...unfortunately, I think mall management is pretty set on keeping a smaller theater in the mall. They signed a 15 year lease with Dickinson.
At the time they were looking for a tenant for that space, I was hoping they'd look for a larger store to fill it instead of a theater. Woodland Hills Mall in Tulsa does just fine without a theater....in fact, I think the absence of a theater actually helps Wooldland Hills target more shoppers instead of just movie goers.
I doubt the space would be large enough for an anchor...there's only 30,000 square feet there. There is a parking area though below the theater that could be converted to more shopping space for a possible multilevel department store. I suppose if you knocked out Charlotte Russe, Motherhood Maternity and a few other stores down stairs, it would give you 60,000 square feet. That would still be a pretty small department store.

Something like Stein Mart, only more upscale might fit well there.

But, I guess this is moot point since the theater will be staying.

Maybe Dickison should try a more upscale approach, like offering a bar, full service dining during a movie, etc. That would be unique.

[Patrick]

What would you guys think about changing the name of Penn Square Mall??...I know some have said before that it reminds a lot of people of the Penn Square Bank collapse, which isn't necessarily a good memory on the national level.

I guess if it isn't broke, don't fix it though.

Using the name Galleria somewhere in the mall name would just be copying off of other cities, although it might set Penn Square apart from other malls like Quail Springs and Crossroads.

[floater]

Well, I agree that an Apple Store would not thrive downtown -- at least for now. Again, it'd be nice as part of a Flatiron Town Center retail development. But now, I think Penn Square's a great place. I've seen only two Apple stores: one in one of Cleveland's new lifestyle centers, and another in Chicago's Magnificent Mile. Penn Square is OKC's equivalent.

It's terrific the way PS's stores are evolving upward. I now think stores like Modern Woman, Hot Topic, and Casual Corner are below its standards!

A second on the west wing as the nicest. My favorite store to explore first is Pottery Barn -- and everything else is extra.

By the way, Patrick, you're looking quite passionate with the throbbing hearts -- I'm sure DarlingDiva can hook you up with some...essentials for V-day.

[Patrick]

I think one thing that plays to Penn Square's advantage is the fact that it's centrally located in the metro. Thus, if a retailer only wants to locate one store in OKC, Penn Square makes more sense than any other mall, as it can cater to all of the metro. That explains stores like Williams-Sonoma, Georgiou, Pottery Barn, Banana Republic, etc. locating at Penn Square instead of choosing other malls. 50 Penn would be the choice for upscale stores if they had any traffic and a decent leasing staff.

[Patrick]

I took at the link Luke presented and came up with some interesting thoughts:

1. Apple prefers leases to be 10, 12 or 15 years. This is good news for Penn Square.....means Apple will be there for awhile.

2. From Apple's preferred location list, it was obvious why Penn Square was the winner for the OKC market: close proximity to interstate (Crossroads beats all of them in this but has too many factors working against it), demographics, traffic, money the mall is willing to contribute (Simon has a very agressive budget for attracting retailers to its malls through incentives), average household income (Penn Square ties Quail Springs here with avg. income at about $50,000), the presence of trendy stores (Penn wins this award), proximity to colleges (probably wasn't a factor, although OCU isn't far from Penn).

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

And, yet, Talbot's has not left 50 Penn Place. I am beginning to think that was just a stupid rumor that circulated around here. Real hush-hush, eh? LOL. Atleast they spice up our lives.

[Patrick]

Well, it wasn't a rumor....it was true and confirmed...I spoke with management at Talbots after I posted that. I believe what I said was that they were wanting to move from 50 Penn to Penn Square. This is true. Problem is, they have a lease at 50 Penn. They've been trying to get out of their lease there. I haven't been back to Talbots to get an update, so I'm not sure they were able to get out of their lease.

[Patrick]

By the way, don't expect to see an Apple store for awhile....Penn Square takes their sweet little time....and by the way, I said the lease was solid, not signed! Just thought I'd cover myself!

[zuluwarrior0760]

I think there could come a time, after more retail arrives that a 9-9 apple store
in Bricktown would be very cool in a yuppie sort of way.......

I gotta say.....Apple never ceases to amaze! While Dell makes machines that
are 2 times faster for hundreds less......the "COOL" factor of that new minimac
is going to lure me to get one just for the novelty of having nothing but that TEENY
little box......don't know what I'll do with it, but I NEED one to go with my ipod........

[Luke]

Dells are two times faster? Perhaps in the numbers alone. A G5 processor doesn't require as many megahertz as an Intel processor to get the same power. For example, a G5 is about 1.5 times quicker than an Intel at the same clockspeed. i.e.: 1 Ghz G5 = 1.5 Ghz Pentium 4.

Don't be fooled by clockspeed. I would venture to say that my G4 667mhz PowerBook is more effiecient and time saving than many Pentium 4's today. OS X rocks, no virii, no crashing (none), stable system, time saving ease of use.

Anyways, zuluarrior, I'm glad to hear you're getting a Mac mini. You'll love it.

[zuluwarrior0760]

At risk of turning this into an Apple versus PC thread.........

I wasn't comparing G5 to Dell @ any clockspeed...
just comparing Dell's special of the week P4 machine with 512mb of ram and a 2.3ghz
processor for between 399 and 599 depending on options.......
put up against the 499 base minimac with a 1.2ghz processor and half the ram
even if you step up to the primo model.....
so yeah............
with half the memory and half the clockspeed, the apple is still higher than a Dell P4......
and I'm STILL gonna buy an Apple.....
My comments were intended to be a compliment to Apple, basically saying the intangibles
of the museum grade design, tiny dimensions and OSx more than atone for it's
lack of specs compared to quicker cheaper PCs.....
I'll never be an Apple versus PC guy.......I'll always own BOTH!

[Patrick]

Hmmmm...looks like a good debate for the tech and science forum.

[Nuclear_2525]

I dont know if this was mentioned cause i really didn't have time to read the entire thread...but is there still the possibility of an apple store in Tulsa?

[Luke]

zuluwarrior,

Hey, I don't want to make this into a Mac vs. PC thread either. I know in my heart which one is better. But seriously, here's a link comparing the bottom of the line Dell and the Mac mini. You might be surprised...

http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/edit...nges/index.php

And yes, like you said, with Apple the quality and status are definitely a step above anything else. It's like driving a Mercedes. Not many people have them, but most wish they did. With the Mac mini, now they can have a Mercedes for the price of a Kia.

Like I said, glad you're getting a Mac!

[Patrick]

I dont know if this was mentioned cause i really didn't have time to read the entire thread...but is there still the possibility of an apple store in Tulsa?

Yes, I believe one is being planned for Woodland Hills Mall, as Apple is working with Simon on both cities' stores.

[Luke]

The rumor site linked earlier in this thread did say that Woodland Hills Mall was being targeted as well.

[Patrick]

I went up to Penn Square this afternoon to scope out locations and changes. I hadn't been up there in awhile.

Overland Trading Shoe Company is no longer in business at the mall. I'm really not surprised...that store never did well there or at Quail Springs. The store at Quail is still open, but I bet it will close when their contract expires with Quail.

Anyways, A Store Divided is moving to the old Overland Trading location (next to Customer Service), to free up space for the new White House/Black Market which will be located at center court where A Store Divided is currently located.

CNS Jewelry is locating a permanent store where Successories used to be....I'm not surprised...they made the same exact move at Quail, moving from a Kiosk to the permanent store.

There are only two locations where the Apple store could locate (unless permanent stores are moved), and both are pretty large and square.

1. The old Kabets location where the zoo store was over the holiday season. The only drawback to this space is that it's on the JC Penney wing. Once advantage though is that it's close to the Parking Garage entrance. But, to locate here, a store wouldn't have to be relocated as Bob Landdeck suggested.

2. The old Modern Woman space, upstairs on the Foleys wing. Half of this space is currently occupied by All Wireless. The other half is empty but they've been using it for seasonal space. This would require All Wireless (a temporary lease) to move, possibly to the JC Penney wing.

Option 2 sounds like a stronger possiblity, based on a thorough review of surrounding tenants.

[Luke]

AppleInsider, a Mac rumors site, has confirmed it again...

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=876

[TStheThird]

My Fiance just bought a iMac G5 and I am buying a 12" powerbook soon. I bought the iPod a month ago and just bought her an iPod Shuffle. I was anti Mac until a friend showed me the light. I am not anti Dell (my family owns all Dell computers... I am typing in one right now), but I will never own one again. It had problems the entire time I had it, the LCD screen burned out, the hard drive crashed, as did my Fiance's laptop. We both had a bad experience and I will never own anything Dell ever again. My families computers all work fine though. Unfortunately, my did not.