Results of local issues

[metro]

Sad we can't pay our Mayor and Council Members more. I thought we were major league?


City of Oklahoma City ballot results
Comments 0Published: November 5, 2008
City of Oklahoma City (279/279 precincts reporting)

Charter amendments

Proposition 1 — Authorizes city council vacancies to be filled by temporary appointment to keep a ward from going without representation for more than 30 days, with a special or general election to follow. Yes, 161,814 (81.6 %); No, 36,312 (18.4 %).

Proposition 2 — Lowers the minimum age to run for mayor from 25 to 21, and requires city council candidates to live in the ward they seek to represent for at least six months. Yes, 103,890 (51.2 %); No, 98,730 (48.8 %).

Proposition 3 — Provides that the office of vice mayor be rotated among city council members for six-month terms, based on seniority or alphabetical order. Yes, 131,665 (66.7 %); No, 65,679 (33.3 %).

Proposition 4 — Raises the mayor's salary from $24,000 to $48,000 annually, and raises city council members' salary from $12,000 to $24,000 annually, effective with the next terms of office. Yes, 96,311(47.6 %); No, 105,840 (52.4 %).

Proposition 5 — Replaces current city charter language regarding city employees' conflicts of interest regarding contracts to language that mirrors state law. Yes, 150,714 (76.5 %); No, 46,668 (23.5 %).

[CCOKC]

Thanks for posting that. I had not heard the results. Interesting about the mayor and council raises.

[OKCTalker]

Prop 4 (Mayor & Council Raises) - IMO it was the doubling of the salaries, not that they'd be paid $48k & $24k respectively.

[metro]

Yeah but still, $48K for a F/T Mayor of a "Major League City." Even if you don't believe we're "major league", we're still a large metro of about 1.2 million and it is and should be a f/t job.

[sgray]

If I were making what I used to get paid before the cutbacks and layoffs, perhaps I could afford to pay more for their salaries...

I think the vote speaks for itself.

Too many people struggling right now to put food on the table.


FYI- I know tons of people locally working hard, full-time jobs that used to make that and are now barely breaking $12k.

[metro]

But do you think we can lead our city the best way possible by paying city councilmen/women $12K a year? What type of candidate pool does this allow us to choose from based upon the salary? Yes some of them have a p/t job elsewhere, but some do not. What message does this send to the rest of the US and World that we're trying to communicate that we're "big league"? I mean we're talking about city council, not john doe working at taco mayo for minimum wage. We're talking about the people that lead tens or hundreds of thousands in their respective district.

[sgray]

If a guy doesn't have $10 in his pocket to put in his gas tank, he cant drive anywhere. A guy has to take care of his own family first.

If we have no money to pay the mayor more, we have no money.

The issue of treating them better is not the holdup. I agree with you on taking the burden off their shoulders of having to work a second job, but metro, a LOT of us are working 2 jobs right now and are still struggling.

When times are better for us as a whole, I can see this issue making headway.

[Chynna802]

But do you think we can lead our city the best way possible by paying city councilmen/women $12K a year? What type of candidate pool does this allow us to choose from based upon the salary? Yes some of them have a p/t job elsewhere, but some do not. What message does this send to the rest of the US and World that we're trying to communicate that we're "big league"? I mean we're talking about city council, not john doe working at taco mayo for minimum wage. We're talking about the people that lead tens or hundreds of thousands in their respective district.

I agree. I voted in favor of it.

[Tex]

I was on the fence about prop 4 and I wish I was more informed about similar sized cities mayors' salaries. Ultimately I voted against this issue because I thought a 100% pay raise was too much and these are positions of public service. The mayor and council members don't run for office for the pay. People that run for public office have a genuine goal of serving their constituents. Even though OKC pays a small salary to its mayor and council members I don't believe this will result in a subpar candidate pool in the future.

[Tex]

Yeah but still, $48K for a F/T Mayor of a "Major League City." Even if you don't believe we're "major league", we're still a large metro of about 1.2 million and it is and should be a f/t job.

The mayor of OKC doesn't serve the metro, he serves the people of OKC, population 547,274.

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 2007 Population Estimates

[hoya]

If a guy doesn't have $10 in his pocket to put in his gas tank, he cant drive anywhere. A guy has to take care of his own family first.

If we have no money to pay the mayor more, we have no money.

The issue of treating them better is not the holdup. I agree with you on taking the burden off their shoulders of having to work a second job, but metro, a LOT of us are working 2 jobs right now and are still struggling.

When times are better for us as a whole, I can see this issue making headway.

That's about the biggest load of crap I've seen in years.

The economy in Oklahoma City is still growing. To raise the salary of the mayor from $24,000 to $48,000 is nothing. In a city of over half a million people, we're looking at less than five cents per person. Yeah, I'm sure you can't afford that extra five cents. Hell, maybe you have a wife and eight kids. That's one less Dr Pepper each year. The horror!

This crap about "well, they're public servants, so they should do all this crap for whatever pittance we want to pay them" is ridiculous. It ensures that only the very wealthy can afford to run for office, those people who don't need it. I couldn't afford to live on $24,000 a year. Neither could any of you. It is patently ridiculous.

[venture]

Does OKC still use a City Manager/Weak Mayor form of government? I could see paying the mayor more if it had the Strong Mayor form of government to where the mayor is actually involved and working nonstop. In a City Manager form, I believe the manager is the technical CEO of the city and doing most of the work while the mayor does do a lot of work - but not a lot of day to day stuff.

[hoya]

The mayor of OKC doesn't serve the metro, he serves the people of OKC, population 547,274.

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 2007 Population Estimates

Yeah, and even excluding the rest of the metro, that's about 4 cents per person. You're a big spender there, Tex.

[southernskye]

Does OKC still use a City Manager/Weak Mayor form of government? I could see paying the mayor more if it had the Strong Mayor form of government to where the mayor is actually involved and working nonstop. In a City Manager form, I believe the manager is the technical CEO of the city and doing most of the work while the mayor does do a lot of work - but not a lot of day to day stuff.

James D. Couch was appointed City Manager of the City of Oklahoma City on November 9, 2000.

[Tex]

Yeah, and even excluding the rest of the metro, that's about 4 cents per person. You're a big spender there, Tex.

Well I'm glad you can do math hoyasooner. My point wasn't about the cost per person. I was correcting Metro's argument when he tried connecting the mayor's duties with serving the metro of 1.2 million.

Edit: Thought you all would like to see this... Tabulated Data on City Governments — Infoplease.com

[OKCTalker]

Yeah but still, $48K for a F/T Mayor of a "Major League City." Even if you don't believe we're "major league", we're still a large metro of about 1.2 million and it is and should be a f/t job.

Metro - I firmly embrace the philosophy of a citizen-representative who is elected, does his/her best job, and then goes back home. That philosophy has been prostituted in the U.S. Congress and Oklahoma Legislature which led to term limits (which I also philosophically oppose, but there's no other way to get most of these guys to go home).

It isn't the F/T or P/T status of elected leaders that defines whether a city is "major-" or "minor-league." We've been very well led by most of our recent mayors and councilmembers, and the citizens have acknowledged that by passing tax measures that wouldn't have stood a chance prior to the 1990s. And we now have a major league city by almost any definition. For curmudgeons who contest that, I'll absolutely say OKC is the strongest and best that it's ever been, and to that they can't disagree.

[OKCTalker]

Does OKC still use a City Manager/Weak Mayor form of government? I could see paying the mayor more if it had the Strong Mayor form of government to where the mayor is actually involved and working nonstop. In a City Manager form, I believe the manager is the technical CEO of the city and doing most of the work while the mayor does do a lot of work - but not a lot of day to day stuff.

City Mayor: CEO
City Manager: COO

[Chynna802]

Not sure what it's worth, but here is a table of the median annual salary for local government positions, for 2006, as provided by the U.S. Department of Labor. Here is the link too. State and Local Government, Excluding Education and Hospitals


Occupation Salary

City manager/Chief administrative officer $92,799
Assistant chief administrative officer 83,155
Engineer 79,648
Chief financial officer 76,101
Fire chief 75,645
Information services director 75,118
Economic development director 73,140
Human resources director 72,527
Public works director 71,360
Human services director 70,958
Chief law enforcement official 69,600
Parks and recreation director 68,284
Health officer 67,275
Purchasing director 63,043
Chief librarian 58,750
Treasurer 54,803
Clerk 45,497
Chief elected official 25,000

[sgray]

That's about the biggest load of crap I've seen in years.

The economy in Oklahoma City is still growing.

I couldn't afford to live on $24,000 a year. Neither could any of you. It is patently ridiculous.

hoya,

I fully embrace a debate with all opinions on the table, but to call a majority of people's day-to-day life a 'load of crap' shows that you either 1) haven't spent much time outside with working people recently, or 2) you just dont care or dont want to see them

For example, for one of my jobs I work at the airport for an airline. Most of us barely pass $12k a year working our butts off loading/unloading flights. Those jobs paid nearly double that 10 years ago. Then you have folks working at a call center in Moore starting at less than that for some...then you have Wal-Mart, restaurants, etc...just a few areas of the big picture...there are a lot of people at minimum wage. Here, in OKC!

I couldn't afford to live on $24,000 a year. Neither could any of you. It is patently ridiculous.

INTERESTING! I've budgeted my life around close to HALF OF THAT! I own my own house, my own car, etc... I have no wife or kids, so my $ are not stretched like that (yet).

HOYA, it sounds like you are pretty well off and I'm glad that you've been successful. But we can't let our success make us lose sight of where we once were and where people are now.

The economy in Oklahoma City is still growing.

Folks may write what they think and folks may read and believe, but it is what it is. I can cross out the amount on my paystub and write in another amount but for some reason, the extra $ dont show up in my account. Cant understand it.



HOYA, understand me clearly. I WANT to make OKC better. I WANT to pay the mayor and staff whatever they are worth, HOWEVER, where is the vote to pay me what I'm worth and my co-workers what they are worth? Much of us are not getting paid what we are 'worth' right now and we each share in the responsibility of fixing that. When things get better, I'd be glad to look at this again. Right now there are too many uncertain variables.

One more thing...being mayor of a city not only looks good on your resume but is likely to get you a decent paying job both now and in the future, so it's not like the mayor isn't getting other returns on his investment.

[OKCMallen]

If I were making what I used to get paid before the cutbacks and layoffs, perhaps I could afford to pay more for their salaries...

I think the vote speaks for itself.

Too many people struggling right now to put food on the table.


FYI- I know tons of people locally working hard, full-time jobs that used to make that and are now barely breaking $12k.

They need to get different jobs. Is that even minimum wage?

[OKCMallen]

That's about the biggest load of crap I've seen in years.

The economy in Oklahoma City is still growing. To raise the salary of the mayor from $24,000 to $48,000 is nothing. In a city of over half a million people, we're looking at less than five cents per person. Yeah, I'm sure you can't afford that extra five cents. Hell, maybe you have a wife and eight kids. That's one less Dr Pepper each year. The horror!

This crap about "well, they're public servants, so they should do all this crap for whatever pittance we want to pay them" is ridiculous. It ensures that only the very wealthy can afford to run for office, those people who don't need it. I couldn't afford to live on $24,000 a year. Neither could any of you. It is patently ridiculous.

You can make 24k/year work. It ain't fun, but you can do it.

[Chynna802]

They need to get different jobs. Is that even minimum wage?

That's what I was thinking. I am pretty sure that as of July minimum wage is 6.55/hr, which, if working full time, should come out to about $12,500/yr.

[Luke]

When I taught at a private school, I made much less than $24,000 a year. It's certainly do-able.

[sgray]

OKCMallen,

With all due respect, almost every industry is outsourcing and cutting costs everywhere. Where to go? I see friends of mine...good people...that are having trouble getting grants to go to local college when I qualified right away back in 1998 when I applied. Personally, I have a pretty good primary gig in engineering...but our company has seen major cutbacks recently. It's pretty much everywhere...but it really hurts bad when you dont make beans to begin with, you know?

The average wages are going down everywhere... Heck, take the following typical wages.

Minimum wage went UP to $6.55/HR on July 24, 2008.

$6.55/HR @ 40HR/WK = $1048/MO $12576/YR GROSS, NOT NET, GROSS!!! Way less than that after taxes. Now that's just after july. It was below that before the raise.

Interesting numbers...
$8/HR @ 40HR/WK = $1280/MO $15360/YR GROSS BEFORE TAXES
$9/HR @ 40HR/WK = $1440/MO $17280/YR GROSS BEFORE TAXES
$10/HR @ 40HR/WK = $1600/MO $19200/YR GROSS BEFORE TAXES

Unless you can get a cozy job that pays well, you are lucky to get to 8 or 9 on this list.

Good points for discussion though.

[Chynna802]

But should the Mayor be making $24,000 a year? I make more than that and believe I am "worth" it and I believe a Mayor is worth more money than me.

Sgray, if you think you are worth more than what you are getting paid why don't you look elsewhere? There are plenty of good jobs out there that pay more than minimum wage, no degree needed.