The Park Harvey Stole my Deposit!

[OKCMallen]

Well, I'm not much for drama, but I promised the staff at the Park Harvey and Gardner Tenenbaum that I would be telling my story to as many people as I could if they would not work with me, so here it is.

I currently live in the Classen Tower. It's been great, the staff has been great, and I basically have zero complaints other than the sirens at night (and that's no one's fault). I was looking to move out, as my roommate is getting married, and I looked into the Park Harvey due to its location and my positive experience with the Classen.

After looking at several places and visiting the PH multiple times, I sat down with a leasing agent at the PH to talk about prices and application. I was told verbally that the $50 "administrative fee" was non-refundable, but the $150 "deposit" was refundable. This seemed off to me, and I was not yet comfortable giving a deposit as I was only about 80% sure about wanting to live there. However, after I was once again verbally assured that the deposit was refundable if I gave early enough notice of my change of heart. I believe her exact words were "as long as you don't wait until, like, right before you're supposed to move in to tell us." Due to this false misrepresentation, we zoom through the paperwork so I can get back to the office (I bet you can see where this is going now...)

That was on 5/6/08. My move-in date was set at June 27th. (Relevant info- they offer to hold apartments for free for "30-45 days" without a deposit anyway!) I had not yet signed any lease. On May 14th (barely a week later, and approx. 6 weeks before move-in), I requested my deposit back, minus the $50 administrative fee that I was told was non-refundable.

I was denied this request. I asked why, and they stated the form said it was not refundable in this manner. Well, the form does indeed say this. I tell them- hey, I was lied to by your leasing agent, I think I deserve at least a portion, if not all of my deposit back. We go back and forth for a bit, and then I demand that if I don't get my deposit back that I should receive the value for which it was given (namely- hold that apartment open and NOT leased until my move-in date in case I decide to take it). They will NOT confirm that they will hold the apartment open, nor will they offer any portion of the deposit back. She then proceeds to ignore my emails.

These discussions were with the building manager (no need to name names). I acquire her boss's name and email, and put a call into him. I inform the building manager that I have done so and THEN she responds to my email (of course). She finally claims she doesn't have the authority to refund my deposit...which is probably a lie, but I don't know that for sure, so I just tell her that's fine and I'll be taking it up with her supervisor.

So, enter supervisor- I email him ALL the email threads that have been created. He says he's going to fax me a copy of the applicaiton, but I tell him I am sure that he is correct and that it says it's not reundable in that manner, but that the point is I was fraudulently induced into signing the application and giving the deposit in an unlawful manner (which is true). I never receive the fax (he might have sent it, who knows). I email him again today, asking for his attention to this matter, and he faxes the copy of the application, which I receive. I email him saying that- I already agreed with you that it says what it says; the problem is that I was lied to in signing it. I further explained that what happened was unlawful, and you can't play "gotcha" with contracts by lying to induce someone to sign it. He responds with "I talked to XXX and YYY (the leasing agent that lied to me and also the building manager) and found no evidence of a misrepresentation."

Well, of course that's a little offensive to imply I am lying over $150. Honestly, I don't need the money. It's just that I was lied to and these apartment towers and complexes always play hide the ball with deposits. I have been a good tenant with rent on-time, every time with their company at the Classen for over 7 months, but apparently that holds no water with them. They won't even agree to hold my apartment open and unleased at this point. I have told them that what is happening is fraudulent, and could carry a remedy of punitive damages should I decide to press my case. Obviously, it's not worth the time so much, but they should realize the positions they have created.

So, said all that to say this: not that you didn't already know that apartment management is often money-grubbing and shady when it comes to deposits, but the Park Harvey's staff is at LEAST incompetent in relations, maybe just DISHONEST to a degree, and possibly as bad as COMPLETELY IMMORAL and UNALWFUL when it comes to the acquisition of deposits and your name on the bottom line.

If you have any questions, feel free to respond in this thread or to PM me.

[jbrown84]

Strange. I live there and have found the staff to be nothing but great.

Sounds very out of character for them.

[betts]

It seems like a rather small amount of money they are withholding, when it can generate ill will and negative publicity. I think it's just good business to give a refund in the above situation.

[Kerry]

OKCMallen - the horror stories of deposits and apartments are as numerous as oxygen. The best thing to do is chalk it up to experience and move on. When we moved out of an apartment in Jacksonville they had a maintenance guy do the final walk-thru and he found a scratch on the counter top that was there the day we moved in. I was told not to worry about it at move-in only to be stuck with a $75 repair bill on the way out.

I tried to contact the previous residents to see if they paid for the rapair also but they would return any phone calls. I even tried to talk with the people that leased the apartment after us to see if the repair was made but couldn't reach them either. I talked with the leasing agent, the manager, the district manager, the regional supervisor and I got the same story from all of them. It isn't worth the trouble - try to move on.

[OKCMallen]

You know, I would settle just for a pro-rated amount. If they already leased that apartment, that would be a major legal problem for them, one I am not entirely unmotivated to realize for them.

[Chicken In The Rough]

I would steer clear of all Gardner Tenenbaum properties. I have had serious problems with them in the past and I know of others who have also had problems. It's too bad they do business the way they do. They could have been such a positive force for the city. Instead, they are just a bunch of creeps in my opinion.

The best way to prevent mistreatment from Gardner Tenenbaum is to stay completely away from them!

[OKCMallen]

Man, you know, I've really liked the Classen, I am a little surprised to ehar that GTG is generally perceived this way.

[so1rfan]

I love his radio show, he must have fallen on hard times to steal your deposit....

Maybe some day we will learn the rest of the story.

Good day.

[metro]

I've heard stories about GTG. Wasn't too impressed with his son either who was plastered at the Classen Tower open house and was pretty rude at the Park Harvey open house.

[Toadrax]

Deposits are easy money for them.

If you didn't get whatever was said to you in writing, you lose.

"Where does it say I get my money back?" is the question you should ask, and if it doesn't say that than it doesn't say that.. nothing else is up to discussion.

Same thing about when you move in to a place. If you didn't get the previous damage in writing or in a report, you lose and there is nothing you can do about it when you move out.

You can complain all you want, but how does anyone really know that you were told that you would get the money back? I don't know you and how do I know you wouldn't lie over $150? I'm not accusing you of lying, just saying I don't know and no one is going to invest much energy in finding out over a few bucks.

Everyone has to learn this someway, just be glad this is how you learned it.

[PLANSIT]

The same exact thing happened to me. I was told that my deposit was refundable. I had an apartment on hold but decided to move to Deep Deuce. When I proceeded to get my "deposit" back she told me that is was non-refundable. I then asked her why she told me it was and replied that she had not. She also told me that I would get a membership to the health club for renting a studio. Midway through the process they changed their mind and made that only available to the one bedrooms. I wasn't happy, but have just moved on and got a new place.

[OKCMallen]

Toadrax- I agree that that's how people seem to work, but it's not how the law works.

[jsibelius]

I don't know...if enough people are being told their deposits are refundable, and then getting hosed on the fine print, that might be enough to take someone to court, assuming someone was mad enough to do so. Considering the size of the deposit, you might consider taking them to small claims court.

Yes, I KNOW it says in writing "x." And yes, I KNOW verbal agreement Y doesn't trump written agreement X. But think about how many times you've been sitting in a leasing office, being rushed into signing some kind of agreement by the manager and being told all kinds of things just to get you in, get you signed, and get you back out. I think you could make a case, if you were just mad enough to go after it, but just calm enough to handle it in a courtroom.

[OKCMallen]

I don't know...if enough people are being told their deposits are refundable, and then getting hosed on the fine print, that might be enough to take someone to court, assuming someone was mad enough to do so. Considering the size of the deposit, you might consider taking them to small claims court.

Yes, I KNOW it says in writing "x." And yes, I KNOW verbal agreement Y doesn't trump written agreement X. But think about how many times you've been sitting in a leasing office, being rushed into signing some kind of agreement by the manager and being told all kinds of things just to get you in, get you signed, and get you back out. I think you could make a case, if you were just mad enough to go after it, but just calm enough to handle it in a courtroom.

Actually, the writing USUALLY trumps verbal...if the agreement NEEDS to be in writing. You can have oral modifications to a written contract if they don't fall within the statute of frauds. Tough showing, of course, but it's possible.

[Toadrax]

But think about how many times you've been sitting in a leasing office, being rushed into signing some kind of agreement by the manager and being told all kinds of things just to get you in, get you signed, and get you back out.

No, that has actually never happened to me.

The best way to get me out of your office with the contract signed, is to present me a contact I would want to sign.

I don't think I have ever moved into a place where getting all the financial information in writing was a problem nor have I ever had a problem getting pre-existing damage to a place documented and signed off on.

I have also never had a problem getting a receipt for payments made that describe what I was paying for... Maybe if the OP had a receipt that said "$150 refundable deposit" he wouldn't be in this mess.

[veritas]

Actually, the writing USUALLY trumps verbal...if the agreement NEEDS to be in writing. You can have oral modifications to a written contract if they don't fall within the statute of frauds. Tough showing, of course, but it's possible.

Ah for the good 'ole days of the Beta house eh OKCMallen?

[lpecan]

Key Midtowner and the parol evidence rule.

[OKCMallen]

Haha, I was waiting on him, actually.

[Midtowner]

Yeah, we law students don't tend to readily give up legal advice as it can come back and bite us on the ass come Bar application time. I may be paranoid, but I'm not a big risk taker when it comes to things like that. You'll note that I've confined my legal ramblings to matters of general commentary where I didn't think there was any chance in hell someone would do what I thought would be a good idea (e.g., the Sonics situation).

Good luck with your situation though.

Wikipedia, has become a halfway decent source for common law rules.

oscn.net is a great source for Oklahoma law.

From the way Mallen talks, he has the situation well in hand.

[jsibelius]

No, that has actually never happened to me.

The best way to get me out of your office with the contract signed, is to present me a contact I would want to sign.

I don't think I have ever moved into a place where getting all the financial information in writing was a problem nor have I ever had a problem getting pre-existing damage to a place documented and signed off on.

I have also never had a problem getting a receipt for payments made that describe what I was paying for... Maybe if the OP had a receipt that said "$150 refundable deposit" he wouldn't be in this mess.

Getting it in writing is never a problem, but getting the leasing agent to shut up and let you read it, ah... well that's a different story. They just keep talking and trying to "explain" what it says hoping you won't actually read it. That was my point. And that has happened to me nearly every time I've had to sign a contract of any sort - leases, my mortgage paperwork, car rental contracts, whatever. I finally learned to *nicely* tell them to hush "while I read awhile." Cruises are my favorite. They don't send you the contract until you've already booked and paid, and you're leaving in a very short period of time (meaning it's already non-refundable). Of course, if you're savvy, you know you can look at the contract at any time by simply asking to see it. But they don't just hand it over until it's too late to get out of it. I just love how the snake-oil salesmen of the world just love to try to trap us into their contracts by trying to keep us from seeing the fine print. It's become sort-of my mission in life to rail about it as much as possible.

Actually, the writing USUALLY trumps verbal...if the agreement NEEDS to be in writing. You can have oral modifications to a written contract if they don't fall within the statute of frauds. Tough showing, of course, but it's possible.

Exactly my point. Usually, but it is possible to get past the writing to the verbal stuff, and I suspect for the exact reasons I stated above. Sometimes our lawmakers aren't as dumb as we make them out to be, and sometimes they really do listen when we write them letters.

[OKCMallen]

Well, I appreciate that Toadrax is so perceptive and infallible that he would never, ever get snowed over by anyone, anywhere.

[OKCMallen]

I must post that after conversation with the vice president of the multi-family division of the GTG, we came to a 100% fair for both parties, amicable solution. He was more than willing to work with me, regretted the situation, and took into aco**** that I had been a tenant with GTG.

Although the story above is true, I want to say that even though it took some effort to get to the right person, I was treated in a fair, friendly, and equitable way. If wasn't GTG that made this mistake, it was one leasing agent, so I want to be fair about the above post and how it all worked out positively in the end.

[Toadrax]

I have been snowed over before. Obviously I learned how to tune out everything a salesperson told me from somewhere.

Pain is a good motivator.

[jsibelius]

Good. Then I won't quote you where you said, "No, that has never happened to me."

[Toadrax]

Good. Then I won't quote you where you said, "No, that has never happened to me."

And I won't quote where you said, "But think about how many times you've been sitting in a leasing office, being rushed into signing some kind of agreement by the manager and being told all kinds of things just to get you in, get you signed, and get you back out."

THAT has never happened to me, sorry for the misunderstanding. I got snowballed over the phone. But like I said, it is a good thing. Once you learn to ignore anything that isn't in writing, salespeople figure it out and treat you differently(they hate you).