Mid Del Schools to loose out

[Redskin 70]

Ok County commissioners to announce today they plan to buy the GM plant using Taxpayer money and give that structure to Tinker Air Base.
The sale will cost the Mid Del School system approximately $700,000 in property tax that is used to pay for bond debt.
This deal will increase the capabilities of Tinker Air Base.
Is this a good deal or not.
What is the greater good.

[Midtowner]

Ok County commissioners to announce today they plan to buy the GM plant using Taxpayer money and give that structure to Tinker Air Base.
The sale will cost the Mid Del School system approximately $700,000 in property tax that is used to pay for bond debt.
This deal will increase the capabilities of Tinker Air Base.
Is this a good deal or not.
What is the greater good.

Actually, this is probably good. The Mid/Del schools will have less money, but presumably, there will be a lot more sales tax revenue in the area, so the police will have more money.

I think that's about right for that area.

[kevinpate]

Tinker is, if I recall correctly, the largest employer in the state. In the BRAC era, it would seem anything which preserves and strengthens Tinker is a positive for the state and the immediate surrounding communities. We has some losses in the last go around, but overall I think Oklahoma gained. Bumping the zone around Tinker, which has been going on for a spell now, is a step toward growth there. All in all, the loss of a now dead plant from the rolls doesn't seem that terrible.

[bombermwc]

I'm with you Redskin...it's a big amount of money to lose. I'm not really sure what can be done to help out though. We need to do what we can for Tinker because without it, there is no MWC.

[Redskin 70]

They announced a 55 million bond issue proposal to pay for this.
Though I am not opposed to Tinker and do concur that the loss of Tinker would be devastating.
If this is such a good deal then why not ask the property tax owners of the several county's who surround Ok country to also pony up.
After all when you view the data as I have from the Greater Oklahoma CIty Chamber, Tinker employees live in all directions in the 6 county region.
Why not ask Norman and Moore, McCloud and Shawnee, Yukon and El Reno to also participate?
They do have sizable citizen populace who work at tinker directly or the Aerospace industry which supports Tinker.

[bombermwc]

Well if it's a lease deal and not a buyout, doesnt that mean that the tax money still flows?

[Redskin 70]

No, thats the beauty of it.
County owns it so no property taxes paid. Tinker Leases it and as tennent, no property taxes paid...

[bombermwc]

Well then that sucks a big fat one.

[foodiefan]

not nearly as loud as the sucking sound that would occur if the Air Logistics Center moved/closed. . .which they could do without closing the Base proper. To generalize, the ALC is the management/maintenance organization. . .what would be left would be the base and flying operations (AWACS, Navy wing).

[Edmond_Outsider]

It's probably a net gain for the area. Tinker tends to be a good neighbor and what increases business there is generally good for the community.

This deal is complicated though and there will have to be some way that a 700K loss will be made up to the schools. Military base commanders are generally very sensitive to their host community needs so unless there are idiots or corrupt idiots working out the details, I'm sure the schools will get their share.

[Redskin 70]

The schools system was not consulted before hand.

[bombermwc]

It's probably a net gain for the area. Tinker tends to be a good neighbor and what increases business there is generally good for the community.

This deal is complicated though and there will have to be some way that a 700K loss will be made up to the schools. Military base commanders are generally very sensitive to their host community needs so unless there are idiots or corrupt idiots working out the details, I'm sure the schools will get their share.

Well we HOPE they have a plan to make up for it. In previous types of plans, they haven't. Glenwood and the more recent bond purchases show that they don't typically think of this stuff. They just say "Oh, its for the betterment of the base and community" and then forget about how the schools lose out. Yeah it would suck if tinker left and no one was left, but that doesnt mean mid-del should continually be screwed out of funding.

[Redskin 70]

Well we HOPE they have a plan to make up for it. In previous types of plans, they haven't. Glenwood and the more recent bond purchases show that they don't typically think of this stuff. They just say "Oh, its for the betterment of the base and community" and then forget about how the schools lose out. Yeah it would suck if tinker left and no one was left, but that doesnt mean mid-del should continually be screwed out of funding.

They don't. School board members were not consulted prior. I asked.
Had lunch with one on Tuesday and nope. Nada Nothing.
Tinker is the biggest employer granted.

[Deafguy]

I have always thought that Mid-del schools get allocated more tax money because several of the student's parents are either federal employees or in the Air Force. I always thought that is why I as a student had to fill out those pink/blue/yellow cards every year. If this is true wouldn't more employees/Air Force bring more tax money from the federal level to the Mid-Del schools and possibly offset the cost to the school district of purchasing the GM plant?

[Redskin 70]

Its called impact fees which is the same as property tax for the school system
However, as I understand it this applies to military people.
The GM plant does not equate into more federal jobs. They announced they are closing several older buildings and moving those operations to the GM plant. Ergo no net increase in jobs at this time.

[bombermwc]

The state really should do something to give Mid-Del some money back though. Each year the budget goes down by huge dollars like this, and we're expected to be able to produce at the same level as before??? It's crap and we all know it.

All this development in MWC doesn't mean crap to the schools beause we don't get sales tax money. With schools being tied to property taxes, youre guranteed that your monies will only go down farther and farther. It's not fair to the kids at all.

[bandnerd]

All schools in the state are losing out right now, bomber. They just cut the budget by 2%. And they will probably cut it again.

We were told at my school that there will be no more office supplies, new lightbulbs, etc. The money we raise for our activities will still be there, but there will be no extra funds for extra things like there has been.

[Redskin 70]

Ah, the oft repeated myth of property taxes and school systems.

Property taxes through bond issues are for infrastructure of a large capital nature for school systems. That is why that portion of the millage is reserved to the schools.

Capital means buildings, fleet computers and such..........
Now regarding property development in ANY school system that improves private property. Not all of that property tax goes to the school system. It is apportioned around the state.

Lets say a property develops from raw farm land and the development increases property tax on that property to $100,000.
With me so far?
That $100,000 is split up amongst all the school districts across the state through a process of apportionment. After the apportionment The school system where the development occurred gets oh............$1000.

Now thats a very simplistic explanation to a complex formula but the end result is the same. Now you ask why?
So the "Have school systems" can prop up the "have not school systems"
Equalization of revenues is another term for it.
Now the situation with supplies and teacher salaries...................that is apportioned to the the schools by the "state"

Hope this helps

By the By, both wife and Daughter are teachers so I get a LOT of internal insight

[bombermwc]

If that's the case, it doesnt really explain why some school districts are so strapped for cash then. Compare OKCPS to any suburb. If they are supposedly getting their apportionment (perhaps per student or something), it's not adding up.

I'm not considering any bond money with the taxes though. Bonds cannot be used to pay for salaries...it has to be a non-ending funding source for anyone to use it. So all you can really count bond money for is projects. But that again leaves the question, if the apportionment was equal, why would salaries be so dissproportionate across districts? Administrative costs don't account for the difference either.

[Redskin 70]

Now thats a question I dont have a real answer to.....give me a few days though....

[crimson_knight]

So much for the lottery. What a joke. Is education really that important. The house did not get elected because of their API but who they know. I talked with rep Banz, I think is his name. He blamed the district and the district pointed back at him.

[AFCM]

Its called impact fees which is the same as property tax for the school system
However, as I understand it this applies to military people.
The GM plant does not equate into more federal jobs. They announced they are closing several older buildings and moving those operations to the GM plant. Ergo no net increase in jobs at this time.

Tinker is in fact going to demolish or close older buildings and move those missions to the GM plant. So while it seems to be a lateral move with no increase in jobs, the most important thing you highlighted was the ending 'at this time'.

When the buildings are destroyed, Tinker will have more undeveloped real estate just waiting for new missions and new buildings. DOD is trying to consolidate all of its resources. So, instead of having 70 moderately-sized air bases around the world, we might end up with 20-30 giant bases. Now, I don't claim to know what's really happening behind closed doors so don't take those numbers to be factual, but I do know that DOD is wanting to consolidate. So, with Tinker freeing up some land, it might be suited for more missions looking to move.

It may not happen within the next year or two. We'll have to see what goes down with the next BRAC hearings. What I do know, is that DOD and BRAC are going to kill some cities' economies while others benefit. I want OKC to benefit in the long run and it will. Trust me.

Now, as I've mentioned in other posts related to this topic, I don't really like the idea of leasing the plant to the AF. I just wish they would aquire it completely. Later, when the AF sees what's happening at that level, they may decide to purchase the property outright. I don't know.

[ewoodard]

As far as property taxes for school. The monies go thorugh the school funding formula which is extremely complicated. The school district recieves the bulk of the property tax from that district service area. This money is for operational expenses year to year. The millage is what sets the amount recieved. The teacher pay scale is based on the state scale so that schools know how much will be spent on salaries each year from state allocated money not tied to property tax. In a round about way teachers are state employees hired thorugh a local district just like university employees.