Save an Oklahoma Railroad Landmark from Secretly Being Sold Away

[Taggart]

Attention everyone!!

There was rumor that I'd heard that the Santa Fe locomotive at the fairgrounds was being sold. Now it appears that it is a reality. This locomotive was given by the Santa Fe Railroad as a gift to the people of Oklahoma City for all they had done for the railroad. It has quietly served by the transportation building at the fairgrounds for years as a landmark to the old age of steam that once existed here in Oklahoma City. The current transportation building is under plans to be demolished and redesigned. The artifacts there were to be donated. Since wind of this first caught ORM, the museum has been trying very hard to work out the logistics of getting the engine to the current museum grounds.

The San Bernadino CA county Board of Supervisors last week agreed to give $25,000 toward buying the historic Iron Horse built in the 1897. The locomotive was supposed to be given to the ORM, who planned to restore it and get it working again to establish a train run from the museum grounds in the Adventure District to Bricktown. It seems to me like there might be something fishy going on here.

How could something like this be going on under our own noses?

This locomotive was supposed to be donated to our own Oklahoma Railway Museum. It is up to all of us to keep it here! Let us persevere to keep it in Oklahoma City where it belongs!

Call, write, the fair board your city council people and elected officials and the press to let them know your concern!

[okclee]

Do you have phone numbers for the people that need to be contacted??

[John]

It's a shame that it's sat pretty much hidden from everyone in that couryard.

When we were at the fair, there was what looked like quite a layer of bird droppings that need to be cleaned off of it.

It'll be a stupid move if the city doesn't keep it.

[Taggart]

These are the people we need to contact:

Mick Cornett - Mayor of OKC - mayor@okc.gov

City Council Member information - City of Oklahoma City | City Council

Brad Henry - Governor of Oklahoma - Telephone: (405) 521-2342

Tim O'Toole - OK State Fair President - (405) 948-6700

Gina Burchfiel - Asst. General Manager State Fair Division- (405) 948-6700

D.J. Walker - State Fair Special Projects - (405) 948-6700

KFOR-TV - News Channel Four - (405) 478-NEWS (478-6397)

News 9 - 405.843.6641

KOCO 5 - (405) 478-3000

[SpectralMourning]

Do you think they'd be interested in buying everything else at the fairgrounds as well?

[The Old Downtown Guy]

This appears to be just a rumor. I spoke with Tom Elmore this morning and he said that was the case. He also mentioned that unfortunately, the Fair Board has operated MOL undercover all these years and has pulled stunts in the past such as an almost secrete auction of the mono-rail equipment that adds believability to the locomotive sale rumor.

[Taggart]

Yeah. Tom said some pretty true things about the fair board's track record of reliability in the past. I wouldn't put it past the board to consider an offer if they received one, however.

The claim that San Bernadino is making an offer is still being looked into.

I still maintain that we should keep an eye on it. This only goes to show city leaders how much people here care about Oklahoma's rail history.

[Slivermoon]

Please. Let's not all freak out until we have all the facts.

Please see below the following story from KTOK and the email from City officials. I just hate it when we respond to a knee-jerk reaction to some unsubstantatiated rumor without checking with the legitimate sources.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

City Leaders Deny Historic Locomotive Will Be Sold

It's staying put at the Fair Grounds.
By Jerry Bohnen
Thursday, October 25, 2007


Officials of Oklahoma City and the State Fair of Oklahoma deny reports they are intending to sell an historic 1879 Santa Fe steam engine that sits at the State Fairgrounds.
"Our steam engine's not going anywhere," responded Scott Munz, a spokesman for the State Fair. "There are no current plans to remove or sell it."
Thomas Anderson, Executive Manager for Special Projects in the Office of the City Manager agreed. "I can tell you for sure that it is not on the city or State Fair's radar," he said in an exchange of e-mails with KTOK News.

Curiosity was raised by an Internet article that indicated the San Bernardino County, California board of supervisors recently approved $25,000 for the purchase of the locomotive. Supervisor Brad Mitzelfelt was quoted as saying he wanted to help purchase the steam engine so it could be moved to California to the Western American Railroad Museum in Barstow.
The locomotive was originally donated to the City in 1953 by the Santa Fe Rail Road company.

The attached websites feature original newspaper articles from the Daily Oklahoman.


Article - Id= 41 :

(2nd article)

Article - Id=232 :

And also the following...

Dear Mr. xxxxx,

The Mayor's Office has forwarded your correspondence with regard to the Santa Fe locomotive to my attention and I am pleased to provide you the information I have with regard to this subject.

Yesterday afternoon, I handled a telephone call from radio station KTOK that was following a "lead" on a story indicating that either the City or the State Fair intended to sell the Sante Fe locomotive. I immediately contacted the President of State Fair Inc., Mr. Tim O'Toole, and discussed the issue with him as the City itself had received no such inquiries. Mr. O'Toole indicated that several entities had expressed interest in the locomotive, however, that no formal proposal has ever been made and, more importantly, State Fair Inc. has never considered selling the Sante Fe locomotive.

With this information, I contacted Mr. Jerry Bohnen at KTOK and he was kind enough to give me the source of their lead. As near as I can tell this equates to nothing more than an unsubstantiated rumor that was based on a statement made by an elected official from California (see attached press release).

Again, let me emphasize. No entity has made any offer to purchase the locomotive. Further, neither the City nor State Fair Inc. have ever had nor currently have the intention of selling the Santa Fe locomotive.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have additional questions. Thank you for your inquiry.


Thomas A. Anderson
Executive Manager - Special Projects
Office of the City Manager

Phone: (405) 297-2345
Private Fax: (405) 264-2414
Office Fax: (405) 297-2570


-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:48 AM
To: The Mayor
Cc:
Subject: upset at sale of locomotive


Mayor,

I have heard that an historic locomotive we have at the state fair grounds is about to be sold to a Barstow, California museum for a paltry $25,000. Frankly, even the idea that someone would want to sell an 1879 locomotive out from under the city and state in its centennial year is a travesty. I protest this action and ask that the city use its influence to do something more appropriate with the locomotive right here in Oklahoma City.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.


Oklahoma City, OK

[Taggart]

I slightly disagree. The truths of the matter are that there was actions being made in Barstow, CA to buy it. The company in charge of moving the airplanes out of the fairgrounds thought that the locomotive was for sale as well and thought it could be a sort of broker on the deal. They gave assurances to the Barstow mayor that it would all go down. The fair board is characteristically claiming innocence. Whether that's true or not we don't know only because of the fair board's track record within the last five years.

I do not think that raising a fuss was such a bad thing. If anything, it goes to show our city leaders how much the community cares for our historical preservation.

[Slivermoon]

Okay, if I created the impression that it is bad to question authority then I certainly apologize. I think it is absolutely not only our right, but our obligation to do so in an appropriate and considered manner. Unfortunately, too many citizens are not as engaged in this process.

Nonetheless, the locomotive is the property of the City as evidenced by the posted newspaper articles. For the locomotive to be sold, it would first require City Council action declaring it to be surplus property and then a public process would be exercised for its sale. Prior actions regarding items such as the old carriages or the dismantling of the monorail, granted they were controversial, concerned personal property of the fair and not property of the City. As such, they have the right to do with as they please.

In this instance, it appears we had some people that were acting beyond their authority, representing themselves as "brokers" to something the City owns that was never for sale. Who knows, they may have a bridge they'd like to sell too!

Sounds like a case of fraud to me.

One good thing is that it was caught in time before the apparently well-intended folks of California got duped.

I appreciate and respect your position and I like your idea of calling City Hall and the Fair. I just did not like the idea of calling the media first, before the facts were known.

My 2 cents.

Thanks.

[Taggart]

Ah, that clears it up a bit. While in most cases, I don't really like to involve the media, in this case the media were the ones who made the right connections in putting the puzzle together. More specifically Jerry Bohnen at KTOK who made the link and Steve Davis at the museum.

I do understand your point though. The media can make a real stink of things sometimes.

[Slivermoon]

Attention everyone!!

There was rumor that I'd heard that the Santa Fe locomotive at the fairgrounds was being sold. Now it appears that it is a reality. This locomotive was given by the Santa Fe Railroad as a gift to the people of Oklahoma City for all they had done for the railroad. It has quietly served by the transportation building at the fairgrounds for years as a landmark to the old age of steam that once existed here in Oklahoma City. The current transportation building is under plans to be demolished and redesigned. The artifacts there were to be donated. Since wind of this first caught ORM, the museum has been trying very hard to work out the logistics of getting the engine to the current museum grounds.

The San Bernadino CA county Board of Supervisors last week agreed to give $25,000 toward buying the historic Iron Horse built in the 1897. The locomotive was supposed to be given to the ORM, who planned to restore it and get it working again to establish a train run from the museum grounds in the Adventure District to Bricktown. It seems to me like there might be something fishy going on here.

How could something like this be going on under our own noses?

This locomotive was supposed to be donated to our own Oklahoma Railway Museum. It is up to all of us to keep it here! Let us persevere to keep it in Oklahoma City where it belongs!

Call, write, the fair board your city council people and elected officials and the press to let them know your concern!

Okay... given my prior response and following considerable thought on the subject, here is my issue with this post from Taggart. Why perpetuate a "rumor" by posting it, as well as encouraging everyone to contact the media and elected officials, without first establishing its authenticity yourself? To do otherwise serves no constructive purpose.

I'm really not trying to start a debate over this other than to say that this is a public, or at least semi-public forum, and we should each take some responsibility at least with regard that what we believe to be factual, not what is admittedly a "rumor" with a subsequent call to action.

Again, I stand by my statement that we have the right and obligation to question the actions of our elected leaders. However, we have responsibilities as citizens and members of this public forum as well.

[Taggart]

Actually, all of that was what Steve Davis, an Oklahoma Railway Museum director, sent out in a mass email. I just copied it and pasted it.

I probably should have cited that.

I do still stand by the fact that whether it was a rumor or not, the actions and attention it got brought up some important issues and put a watchful eye on the fair board. Keep in mind, many people still don't believe in the fair board's innocence in this case.

I do, however, respect your opinion and understand why you could say that. But considering that there was evidence that it was true, the fair board's history, and the fact that this information was coming from a credible source at ORM I believe the attention was needed.

The Barstow, CA city council was about to get scammed and our actions stopped it! How could you say we went out of line? The point of the media is to investigate. If they found it not to be true, they wouldn't report it. But they did, and and it was, so they did.

Again, all I can take responsibility for is reporting the information Steve put out. I do apologize if it bothered you. I really don't want to get into a debate about this, it's over with and there's much more to talk about other than this.

[Slivermoon]

Works for me. I think we can get on with life now.

Thanks. I do appreciate your thoughts.

[The Old Downtown Guy]

I received this from Tom Elmore earlier today and am passing it along for those who have expressed interest in this issue.

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Here's a late update on this mess: KTOK's Jerry Bohnen followed up on it and discovered that there was, indeed, a deal cut with Barstow, California to take the locomotive for $25,000 -- however, OKC leadership insists that it was a deal made independently and without authority by the contractor who carried the B-52 and B-47 away.

It makes no sense that a man such as this contractor would take it on himself to sell a historic asset like this -- understanding that the old locomotive is what it is, and that prosecution could well await anyone who fraudulently sold it.

It's been undeniably shown that a deal had been cut. Barstow city officials are said to be "crushed" by the news it won't, now, go through.

I am convinced that this was just one more ploy by the Fair Board to get rid of what they see as an old eyesore. Unfortunately, they got caught.

TOM