New Interstate Between moore and norman?

[Jesseda]

When I was attending Hillsdale Freewill Baprtist College a couple years back, there was a big deal abouta new toll road or freeway that would cut right behind the back of hillsdale coming from the mustang area? Is this plan scrapped or still in stage of being built? Does anybody remember this?

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Not to dog either place, but what would the point behind a highway connecting those two towns be?

[metro]

Perhaps it was a plan for a state highway? I certainly doubt it was an interstate or everyone would have heard about it. Big difference.

[Jesseda]

sorry, i just didt know what it was, I remember they said it was suppose to loop around the whole metro, it was suppose to me the same thing that is on the north side of okc that now goes all the way to interstate 40 by yukon, bad choice of words saying interstate sorry...but we do need one that goes from northwest oklahoma to se east oklahoma..

[flintysooner]

That's the outer loop or the southwest portion of the outer loop. It still is alive and active. I think the last plans I saw had it south of Moore's South 34th (Oklahoma City South 164th). ACOG and ODOT and Moore, Norman, and Oklahoma City all have to agree. I don't know if the final route has been agreed or not.

[venture]

Yeah, the outer loop is something that really raised a stink a few years ago. Flinty has it pretty much on the nose. It would intersect I-35 around Indian Hill in North Norman. My opinion it would be very nice to have, especially for the time when they decide to redo the 35/240 interchange. The Hwy 9 spur isn't really that practical for Norman, but it is available in a last resort type situation.

The plan also included the eastern portion of the loop from around I-240 & I-40 south and around into East Norman.

It's amazing that with Edmond and North OKC you have plenty of highway/turnpike access...but when looking at the 3rd largest city in the state (Norman) you have I-35 and thats about it. Highway 77 and 9 are okay, but the traffic lights don't really help.

[metro]

venture I disagree although you may have a slight point. Yes North OKC has better access than say Norman, however, North OKC and Edmond in particular has horrible access. Broadway Extension should have been designed to be freeway all the way to 2nd at least and have some sort of loop re-connecting it with I-35. If anything Edmond and North OKC don't have enough interstate/freeway/turnpike access. Although I don't mind since I'm an urbanite, make it more difficult for the suburbanites so it will help with urban infill development

[okclee]

I was downtown at the Norman city permit office and they have maps posted that show all of the future highways / turnpikes, and the location of each. Just as stated above, these highways will happen it is just a matter of when.

[bdub02]

Does OKC really need an outer loop ala Beltway 8 in Houston? I can see the Kilpatrick because NW OKC needs it, but SW and SE OKC are still rather sparsely populated that far out. In my opinion, it would just encourage more sprawl rather than much needed urban infill. If anything, Airport Road should be extended to connect with the Kilpatrick rather than build it way out in the boonies as planned.

[Jesseda]

YES WE NEED IT IN SOUTH OKC METRO Interstate 35 is jammed and always at a snails pace at 7:30 in the morning coming from norman to oklahoma city, i wish we could have a alternative.. we need one soon.. Especially with the new norman and moore developments that are going to be big, especially the norman university north park, and all the new entertainment they are building in far north norman and moore

[CCOKC]

I heard somewhere that there are plans to widen I35 in Norman. I think this is needed in the worst way since most of I35 in Norman is 2 lanes both ways. I know this project will lead to major hassles while it is being built but 2 lanes just doesn't cut it anymore.

[oneforone]

CCOKC

I know what you are talking about. It is the southwest leg of the Kilpatrick Turnpike. From what I understand, It is supposed to pickup at I-40 and Mustang Rd. go south and east of mustang and connect somewhere around Indian Hills Rd.

It is supposed to allow better access to Will Rogers and eliminate some of the big rig traffic through the Metro kind of like Dallas' 635 if you will.

They where in the process of aquring land for the leg of it that will run acrossed the area of SW 149th and May when they ran into little resitance from a group of homeowners a couple of years ago. Since then nothing has been mentioned about it.

The last time I saw the layout of if it, it kind of looked like the final goal is to have a turnpike loop that flows around the city back to the Turner Turnpike.

It will probably come to light again in the near future because Mustang, S. OKC and Newcastle are exploding with new homes and businesses.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Does OKC really need an outer loop ala Beltway 8 in Houston? I can see the Kilpatrick because NW OKC needs it, but SW and SE OKC are still rather sparsely populated that far out. In my opinion, it would just encourage more sprawl rather than much needed urban infill. If anything, Airport Road should be extended to connect with the Kilpatrick rather than build it way out in the boonies as planned.

I say...Not really...Not now.

BUT, on second thought...It'll be really handy in a few years if the population increases at all. I lived in Denver for a few years, and it's highways were so overworked people took surface streets into downtown. Think of it like driving to downtown OKC from Moore...On Western...With 5 times the normal traffic at 8 am.

I've driven in a lot of of the larger cities in this country, and Denver is one of my least favorites because of the traffic. And the people that LOOOOVE to run the red on the left-turn lane. That light turned red, and 4 to 6 more cars would go through it. AT.EVERY.LIGHT. It was insane.

So I say...Build a loop. It'll be handy in a few years and would be nice to not have to build it AFTER the demand is there for once.

[HOT ROD]

yep, better to be proactive.

[JOHNINSOKC]

Well, I'm sure I'm speaking on behalf of most people who commute from Norman everyday when I say that we need more lanes on I-35 and for the southwest loop to become a reality during the next 10 years. When it takes 45 minutes to 1 hour on average to go 20 miles to downtown OKC on I-35, there IS a need for more highways!! The state grossly underestimated the future growth of OKC, in particular, Cleveland County, when it planned for a six-lane highway back in the 1980's. I-35 southbound from Downtown to Norman is already obsolete. It's carrying as much traffic as the crosstown, with the same number of lanes in each direction. It looks like they included enough right away for future expansion, but the need is already there right now. The one thing that the OKC metro has going for it is the number of alternative choices you have for getting to the same place. OKC has many more major streets than many cities our size, including some that are larger. It really would not surprise me to see Cleveland County have a population of 300,000 by the time the census comes around in 2010. Moore is the state's hottest housing market and all the small towns around Norman and Moore, and points south, are experiencing explosive growth. Plus, if you look at where much of the growth has happened over the past ten years, it's been in the south and west metro, in particular, Cleveland and Canadian counties. It only makes sense to have the southwest loop to link this major growth corridor together in the near future.

[bdub02]

I agree, I-35 should be eight lanes minimum from Norman to downtown.

[Spartan]

Believe it or not there is a whole lotta metro south of I-40.

Even the new I-40.

[soonerliberal]

I really do not understand why ODOT didn't spend the extra few million to make I-35 eight or 10 lanes at the time of reconstruction. Now the cost will be significantly more than what it would have cost at the time. My commute from Norman to the Airport area is now up to 45 minutes, worse than what it was pre-construction. I-35 is stopped throughout Moore and the I-240 every single workday. Congrats ODOT, yet another screwup. I just don't get why every other state has the ability to plan for the future and be proactive with freeways, but we are reactive and behind consistently.

[Jesseda]

why should we plan for the future and do it right the first time, heck if we planned and did road work ahead of time and did it right the first time, then all the taxes and construction dollars would be at a stand still, we wouldn't have all these full time future construction employees and all the extra tax money we are using up, because we wouldnt have anything to fix if we decided to plan ahead and do it right the first time, common oklahoma likes to waste money when it comes to re-refixing roads, wonder why we are at the bottom of the list when it comes to quality roads..WE build a new road then it starts falling apart within a year, but hey it keeps all the road construction workers a job with a guaranteed paycheck and a bright future

[BoulderSooner]

just an fyi . the southwest loop is still a go at some point .. but the southeast and east/northeast loop ... is dead .. which IMHO is very sad ..

[JOHNINSOKC]

I totally agree with that assessment about the east loop! I used to live in Choctaw, and it was very frustrating trying to drive to far north OKC without a freeway. Besides, there's explosive growth going on in eastern Oklahoma County and I'm afraid that there is, once again, a gross underestimation of transportation needs that will facilitate traffic into the inner city from the eastern suburbs. ODOT really needs to take some lessons from the (TDOT)Texas Department of Transportation. ODOT always talks about trying to minimize the traffic snarls and builds in 1/2 mile sections, while much larger cities with worse traffic, like Dallas don't care and just press on with a ten-mile widening project all at once. When I lived in Nashville back in the late 1980's, they widened I-40 East from near downtown to Lebanon(which is about a 25-mile stretch, within a year and it went from 4 to 8 lanes. There really is no excuse for the snails pace that ODOT is currently working at. This metro region of ours is currently growing rapidly and will most likely continue to grow at this pace for the foreseeable future. It's time for proactivity on road construction!!

[Nuclear_2525]

The main reason ODOT does roadwork/widening in short spans is because there are no Oklahoma companies capable of bidding on a 25-mile stretch of highway construction. None of them have the bonding power for that. So to keep it competitive to the Oklahoma companies instead of just giving it to the Texas companies, ODOT does it in smaller sections

[Bobby H]

Broadway Extension should have been designed to be freeway all the way to 2nd at least and have some sort of loop re-connecting it with I-35.

I agree with that; however, it would be really difficult and expensive to convert South Broadway in Edmond to a freeway facility. Residential neighborhoods in Edmond are densely developed all the way up to Coffee Creek Road. Areas farther north are developing fairly quickly too.

Does OKC really need an outer loop ala Beltway 8 in Houston? I can see the Kilpatrick because NW OKC needs it, but SW and SE OKC are still rather sparsely populated that far out.

OKC does need an outer loop. In the long term the H.E. Bailey Turnpike extension also needs to be completed (extended to Mustang and connected with the outer loop there and extended farther east in the median of OK-9 all the way to I-35).

On the argument of what encourages sprawl, freeways with lots of exits can indeed encourage sprawl. Toll roads with few exits do not encourage sprawl. Metro OKC is growing in sprawl despite freeways or toll roads getting built or not in certain areas.

Oklahoma City -and the entire state in general- needs to copy what Texas has been doing for decades: secure possible superhighway corridors by building divided streets with wide medians. It is an idea that works very well.

Towns like Norman, Mustang and Bridge Creek will get at least some benefit from the turnpike extension being extended and completed. Eventually, that road will be very badly needed. At the very least, OK-4 and OK-9 need to be widened or at least zoned to protect enough right of way so that road can be built in the future. It is feasible to modify both roads so they have medians wide enough to accommodate a future turnpike extension.

I think this approach needs to be adopted in other parts of Oklahoma City and other communities in Oklahoma as well. A wide, divided street with protected median can survive decades of changing politics. If you only have blank land to the left or right of an existing road, politicians with different axes to grind can sell that land to other developers. You can't do that with a median strip in the middle of a state highway or major city street.

Kell Freeway in Wichita Falls was built in this manner. Kell was converted into a wide, divided street in the 1960s and early 1970s. Various phases of Kell Freeway weren't built until the 1980s, 1990s and recent years. The "Falls Flyover" interchange for Kell Freeway and the southern terminus of I-44 recently opened.

If Wichita Falls had done nothing and left Kell as a regular street, doing modest upgrades only as needed, it would have been impossible to build Kell Freeway in recent years. They would have had to buy and demolish a lot more property and that property would have been a lot more expensive to acquire.

Southern areas of Oklahoma City may be sparsely populated right now. But they won't stay that way. If the state waits until later to buy and secure future freeway corridors the project will be a LOT more expensive.

[kevinpate]

I'm prone to grumble re the I-35 parking lot, er interstate from time to time. But when I toss my whiney hat into the closet, truth of the matter is I just don't leave at a better time most days.

When I decide to chow down away from home in the a.m., I leave toward the city 45-90 minutes earlier than my norm. on these days, I zip into just about any part of OKC proper with rarely a brake pedal ever being touched. but then, on such days I've already ordered and am 1/3 of the way through the paper when many folks are just thinking about scraping off a car window.

On my draggy days though, yeah, sign me up with the group thinking I-35 could stand to be 8, 10, 14 lanes wide

[BG918]

I'm prone to grumble re the I-35 parking lot, er interstate from time to time. But when I toss my whiney hat into the closet, truth of the matter is I just don't leave at a better time most days.

When I decide to chow down away from home in the a.m., I leave toward the city 45-90 minutes earlier than my norm. on these days, I zip into just about any part of OKC proper with rarely a brake pedal ever being touched. but then, on such days I've already ordered and am 1/3 of the way through the paper when many folks are just thinking about scraping off a car window.

On my draggy days though, yeah, sign me up with the group thinking I-35 could stand to be 8, 10, 14 lanes wide

What about commuter rail as a solution rather than widening the highway or building a new one? Building new highways encourages sprawl, and we already have plenty of that no need for more.