Bricktown McDonalds proposal not welcomed

[metro]

I'm not sure who moved the other Bricktown McDonalds thread but anyhow, here is an update. I'm glad the Bricktown Design Committee is starting to get with it. I wish Urban Renewal would do the same. I don't have a problem with McDonalds opening up a new location somewhere in downtown, and frankly, I'm surprised they haven't yet. I do agree it needs to be a very very if not exclusively pedestrian friendly location.



McDonald's arguments fail to warm BricktownBy Steve Lackmeyer
Business Writer
Oklahoma City's Bricktown Urban Design Committee vowed Wednesday they will oppose a "typical McDonald's” with a drive-through proposed for the east end of the entertainment district.



Committee members voted to continue consideration of the project at a future meeting – even as representatives warned they may not return.

Ben Aguirre, the fast-food giant's area construction manager, and Kris Fullerton, area real estate manager, both argued their plans matched development on the south side of Reno Avenue in Lower Bricktown.

"This is at the corner of a major intersection,” Fullerton said. "It's not like we're in the cozy area, where people are walking.”

Fullerton then displayed photos of pedestrians walking along what she described as a "cozy area” on Mickey Mantle Drive and of empty sidewalks along Reno Avenue.


Background to rules
Committee member Avis Scaramucci responded she believes that "cozy area” will extend farther east along Reno Avenue.
"Our requirement is to be more farsighted than to look at what exists today,” Scaramucci said. "As businesses go up along there, you will see more pedestrian traffic.”

Committee member Bob Bright objected to arguments by Fullerton that they should judge the McDonald's design against Bass Pro Shops and Residence Inn in Lower Bricktown. Design south of Reno is regulated by the Urban Renewal Authority (URA), not the Bricktown Urban Design Committee.

"They were horrible mistakes, and they created an environment that detracts from what Bricktown is,” said Bright. "I would not approve at all of the vehicular traffic coming in and out from Reno there. We've been trying to avoid the mistakes made on the south side of Reno.”

Committee member John Yoeckel said he is looking at the future of east Bricktown, which includes a proposed $200 million urban town center proposed by RedHawks owners Bob Funk and Scott Pruitt on a parking lot between the AT&T Bricktown Ballpark and the proposed McDonald's. He also dismissed a path proposed from the restaurant to the sidewalk as a sufficient nod to pedestrian needs.

"We want to extend the character of the Bricktown core as we go,” Yoeckel said. "The fact that (the RedHawks lot) is a blank parking lot today is not relevant today. It's important that your site be truly a pedestrian oriented site. Placing your building in the middle of the site and have sidewalks extending across the parking lot is not making it a pedestrian friendly site.”

Fullerton cited traffic counts of 14,000 vehicles daily at nearby Lincoln Boulevard and Reno Avenue as proof the area is already oriented toward vehicles, not pedestrians, and said new downtown residents and employees at the nearby Oklahoma Health Center won't want to walk three blocks for a meal at McDonald's.

Fullerton also dismissed pleas by committee members to consider following the example set in Lower Bricktown by Sonic restaurants. The competing fast-food operator opened a dine-in only eatery in Lower Bricktown, with no drive-through and only parking behind the building. Fullerton responded Sonic considered the dine-in location only because it didn't have enough room for a drive-through.

URA Executive Director JoeVan Bullard, contacted after the meeting, confirmed a drive-through was never considered as part of the Lower Bricktown Sonic during the area's development planning.

"I think we're at different mindsets,” Fullerton said. "Our stockholders have an expectation. We're a publicly held company and drive-throughs are a critical part of our business. We want to be visionaries as well. But our vision may be with the traffic counts at Lincoln Boulevard.”

Assistant City Planner John Calhoun offered a compromise plan that would still allow for a drive-through, but said it was not considered by McDonald's. The fast-food company has a long-term lease for the proposed $2.5 million restaurant, and the continuance would allow for the project to be considered by the committee at its next monthly meeting.

"I do not expect to be back,” Aguirre said. "You can never say never, but I highly doubt it.”

[Misty]

It seems like several things that were posted over the weekend disappeared, including a lot of comments.

[Karried]

Examples please? I'm not sure what posts or comments are missing. Did you do a search? I haven't moved anything nor deleted any posts or messages. I don't think anyone else has either.

[metro]

An example would be the other McDonalds thread possibly relocating to Bricktown. It's no longer here in the Bricktown forum. It should be just one or two posts down with not much action going on in this forum. It was only posted last weekend, and as you can see, most posts on the first page in the Bricktown forum are are older than that.

[AFCM]

Has anyone ever been to the Mickey D's near the San Antonio Riverwalk? If so, would you consider that acceptable for Bricktown or downtown OKC? I remember the restaurant being very pedestrian-friendly, but it reminded me of every other McDonald's across the country...nothing special. I'd say no to Mickey D's opening up if they're going to build a cookie cutter design like that.

Off topic: Where's the McDonald's that pretty much straddles the interstate? It's in Oklahoma and, if I recall correctly, it's the largest McDonald's in the world. I'm not saying I'd want it in Bricktown; just that I'll never forget a visit to that fast food restaurant.

[okclee]

The only way I would like to see a MCD is it they were to build a five story building and they would operate out of the lower level.

I still won't be surprised to see Bricktown get a MCD, and soon to follow a Wal-Mart Supercenter.

[AFCM]

That's if we're lucky. I was kind of expecting a Dollar General, assuming we griped enough about not having retail.

[okclee]

Coming Soon to Bricktown:

Wal-Mart
McDonalds
Dollar General
Pawn Shop
RV Parks
Bass Pro Bait and Tackle
Toby Keith Saloon
Motel 6
Super 8
IHOP
Golden Corral
BINGO Hall

I am sure there will be more soon.

[dismayed]

Committee member Bob Bright objected to arguments by Fullerton that they should judge the McDonald's design against Bass Pro Shops and Residence Inn in Lower Bricktown. Design south of Reno is regulated by the Urban Renewal Authority (URA), not the Bricktown Urban Design Committee.

"They were horrible mistakes, and they created an environment that detracts from what Bricktown is,” said Bright. "I would not approve at all of the vehicular traffic coming in and out from Reno there. We've been trying to avoid the mistakes made on the south side of Reno.”

I am so glad to finally hear someone connected with a Bricktown board finally admitting this. My faith in the process is restored.

[Doug Loudenback]

Examples please? I'm not sure what posts or comments are missing. Did you do a search? I haven't moved anything nor deleted any posts or messages. I don't think anyone else has either.

Unless I'm badly mistaken, I made a post that I could not later find on the McDonald's Bricktown topic ... which included these spoof graphics I made last year sometime ... prophetic as they turned out to be!





I didn't say anything about it and I wouldn't now but for Misty's & Metro's observations. I thought that I might be going crazy! I'm sure that Metro is right, though, the other McDonalds/Bricktown thread just went up in smoke, somehow or other.

On edit: Karrie, my original post of this one, http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-are...c-collage.html , also disappeared, but I reposted it.

[AFCM]

You almost had it Doug. I'm envisioning the Clampett family enjoying a nice weekly bath right next to the Griffith family who are doing a little bass fishing.

[Doug Loudenback]

You almost had it Doug. I'm envisioning the Clampett family enjoying a nice weekly bath right next to the Griffith family who are doing a little bass fishing.

Probably they were there and I just missed it ... didn't go far enough "down the river!"

[Doug Loudenback]

Has anyone ever been to the Mickey D's near the San Antonio Riverwalk? If so, would you consider that acceptable for Bricktown or downtown OKC? I remember the restaurant being very pedestrian-friendly, but it reminded me of every other McDonald's across the country...nothing special. I'd say no to Mickey D's opening up if they're going to build a cookie cutter design like that.

Off topic: Where's the McDonald's that pretty much straddles the interstate? It's in Oklahoma and, if I recall correctly, it's the largest McDonald's in the world. I'm not saying I'd want it in Bricktown; just that I'll never forget a visit to that fast food restaurant.

It's on the Will Rogers Turnpike between Tulsa and Missouri somewhere. It's been a long time since I've driven the route though, so I can't say for certain that it's still there. Even though it became a McDonald's, it wasn't a McDonald's originally ... can you imagine that McDonald's would have built something like that???

According to Wikipedia, Will Rogers Turnpike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Will Rogers Turnpike runs from Tulsa, Oklahoma to the Missouri state line. It is 88 miles long and costs $3.50 to drive one way. It has a posted speed limit of 75 MPH, which makes it possible to get from Tulsa, Oklahoma to Joplin, Missouri in 90 minutes. One unique feature is a McDonald's (formerly called the "Glass House," and owned by the now-defunct Interstate Hosts company) that sits over the turnpike, and one can see the traffic passing beneath. The McDonalds is purported to be the "world's largest." although the McDonalds on International Drive in Orlando, Florida also claims to be the largest. The road is designated Interstate 44, but was built prior to the designation to Interstate standards. It opened to traffic in June, 1957 and was designated as I-44 in 1958 along with the Turner Turnpike connecting Tulsa and Oklahoma City.

Here's a pic by Wes Keller taken in 1999 (credit to McDonald's over the Will Rogers Turnpike in Oklahoma photo - Wes Keller photos at pbase.com )

[BFizzy]

Vinita, OK

World's Largest McDonald's, Vinita, Oklahoma

[Karried]

Yes, now I remember the post of Doug's... and the pics, we've had some website gremlins lately.. I'll check into it and see if we can figure it out.

[johnnyboyokc]

The way the Oklahoman explained it was false......back in the day any original btown developer would of went crazy for this.........However let truth be told MCD said they wanted to build it on their terms and that is BS......dont you agree.....no matter who you are or how you got to btown you have to go through UD........right

[OkieKAS]

McBricktown?

Nope, only SONIC can rule there.

[johnnyboyokc]

Sonic is a training facility.......next to corp. office...........that is totally different!

[betts]

I remember years ago McDonalds wanted to go in in a quaint little area in Ann Arbor. The residents in the area had a fit, and what ultimately happened was that an all brick, very attractive building went in that had no Golden Arches, no street parking and one of the smallest commercial signs I'd ever seen. So, there's no reason that same thing cannot be expected for Bricktown.

[metro]

actually i don't think that Sonic in Bricktown is a training facility. I'm pretty sure it's just a regular walk-in concept restaurant. Has nothing to do with training from people I know at the corporate office.

[John]

I think johnnyboy might have mistaken training facility and test concept.

[BDP]

Ben Aguirre, the fast-food giant's area construction manager, and Kris Fullerton, area real estate manager, both argued their plans matched development on the south side of Reno Avenue in Lower Bricktown.

The sad thing is that they're right. Given what has been built and what lower bricktown is, a regular cookie cutter McDonald's fits right in. You reap what you sow and just about every valid criticism of the Bass Pro deal pointed out that his is what such developments would attract.

Now something like the Express Sports plan for East of the Ball Park would go a long way to mitigate some of the South of Reno mistakes and would, in fact, generate more pedestrian traffic East of bricktown towards this location. If something like that existed, then the above argument would have less merit.

I am glad that the Bricktown review board is doing what they can to steer any new development to be more in line with bricktown and offset what was done south of Reno. Hopefully, they can hold them off until there is some fill in on the north side, which I expect to see long before lower bricktown gets its act together and fills in its development to create a more pedestrian/urban destination.

[Pete]

We've been trying to avoid the mistakes made on the south side of Reno

And isn't it true the review committee didn't have any jurisdiction south of Reno?

So, McD's is basically trying to argue, "Well, they built a bunch of crap across the street so why can't we?"


One positive, though... If Mickey D's thinks there is enough traffic in this area to support one of their high-volume dependent stores, that should be a major marketing point to other retailers and restaurants as part of any go-forward development.

[BDP]

And isn't it true the review committee didn't have any jurisdiction south of Reno?

So, McD's is basically trying to argue, "Well, they built a bunch of crap across the street so why can't we?"

So true. It's funny that developers so often look for excuses to build crap instead of motivation to build something nice. It is just a lesson on how if a municipality doesn't have some civic planning or oversight, you get a bunch of crap more often than not. What's ironic here is that our municipality actually financed some of the crap and now that crap is being used to try and justify more crap.

[Pete]

The chain restaurants are the worst culprits because as the real estate rep pointed out, they are publicly held enterprises and by far their biggest motivation is profit. The only time they deviate from their cookie-cutter is by sheer force, i.e. either bend to what is being asked by a particular jurisdiction/developer or forfeit your right to do business at this particular location.

Once that area really gets rolling I bet they'll become a lot more flexible in order to have a presence there.

Anyway, good for the Bricktown Design Committee. They've actually done a good job with all the recent things that have been proposed.