2013 Moore Public Schools Bond Package

[Plutonic Panda]

Another big one. Wow, it seems OKC is really tackling education and going along good. 120+ million.

Moore Voters To Decide $127 Million School Bond Package - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

[Easy180]

This should pass pretty easily cause the one negative I always hear about our school district is overcrowding

[shawnw]

Question, if you live in the Moore school district, but technically live in OKC, will you get a vote?

[Midtowner]

Question, if you live in the Moore school district, but technically live in OKC, will you get a vote?

You should.

[SOONER8693]

This should pass pretty easily cause the one negative I always hear about our school district is overcrowding

People on the "West" side of he district have many negatives in mind, regarding misappropriation of funds slanted to the "south" and the district showing favoritism to the "south" over the "east" and "west" side schools in other areas. Could be tight.

[Easy180]

People on the "West" side of he district have many negatives in mind, regarding misappropriation of funds slanted to the "south" and the district showing favoritism to the "south" over the "east" and "west" side schools in other areas. Could be tight.

I hear ya but I don't believe there is any chance in hellz that a bond adding new schools in Moore will go down

[SOONER8693]

I hear ya but I don't believe there is any chance in hellz that a bond adding new schools in Moore will go down

You are probably right.

[SoonerDave]

Question, if you live in the Moore school district, but technically live in OKC, will you get a vote?

Absolutely. Lived in OKC proper nearly all my life, but went to Moore schools, as do my kids. Voted in every bond issue I knew about. The OKC/Moore district crossover thing is a really odd duck, as the Moore school region extends into SW OKC all the way up to SW 82nd.

[SoonerDave]

You are probably right.

Hmmm...this is based solely on memory - haven't take the time to actually look it up - but I believe a bond went down just a few years ago? Think it didn't hit the state-mandated 60% supermajority. As I said, that's a very sketchy memory, but I believe it has happened.

Will say this much - there's been a lot of, oh, shall we say, increased tensions across the district over what's perceived by some (again, I emphasize perceived, not saying I agree or disagree) as the preferential the treatment of Southmoore primarily at the expense of Old Moore, and whether that "tension" translates to a punitive shootdown of a bond issue remains to be seen. It may well pass, but to say it's a fait accompli is not entirely accurate.

[SOONER8693]

Hmmm...this is based solely on memory - haven't take the time to actually look it up - but I believe a bond went down just a few years ago? Think it didn't hit the state-mandated 60% supermajority. As I said, that's a very sketchy memory, but I believe it has happened.

Will say this much - there's been a lot of, oh, shall we say, increased tensions across the district over what's perceived by some (again, I emphasize perceived, not saying I agree or disagree) as the preferential the treatment of Southmoore primarily at the expense of Old Moore, and whether that "tension" translates to a punitive shootdown of a bond issue remains to be seen. It may well pass, but to say it's a fait accompli is not entirely accurate.

The increased tensions across the district are serious and run deep. Hard feelings abound on both "West" and "East" side pertaining to "South" moore and many people are tired of things that are overlooked, in many areas, and are ready to do something about it. Now whether that happens remains to be seen. People are looking into financial issues in the district and the district hasn't been exactly forthcoming wiht information. Dragging of feet. A lot of unhappy people.

[Easy180]

Looks like they both passed in the 70's

[SoonerDave]

Looks like they both passed in the 70's

Yup. Looks like about ~4K people out of the entire district voted. Kinda pathetic. At 5pm yesterday, I was the 88th voter in my precinct.

The thing about the bonds they just agreed to issue is that the interest rate can ramp up to 10%. Maybe I can sell some blood and buy some of the bonds I'm going to be paying the interest on and get some of my money back.....

I wish the monies WERE targeted to education...but...several million are tagged for the purchase of large buses to transport athletic teams....all while older schools crumble and teachers go along with insulting salaries and administrators just kinda continue to fiddle while the rest of Rome burns....kinda sobering.

Okay, okay, I won't turn this into a rant. I won't. Going away.

[Just the facts]

I wish the monies WERE targeted to education...but...several million are tagged for the purchase of large buses to transport athletic teams....all while older schools crumble and teachers go along with insulting salaries and administrators just kinda continue to fiddle while the rest of Rome burns....kinda sobering.

Okay, okay, I won't turn this into a rant. I won't. Going away.

Darn good points SoonerDave. One of the biggest problems with education funding is that far too much of it goes to capital expenditures. We have gotten build, abandon, replace down to a science. It is a shame that existing homeowners have to shoulder the burden of growth, when growth itself is sold (and bought) as the solution.

Moore to vote on historic bond » Headlines » The Norman Transcript

Residents in the Moore Public School District will decide Tuesday, Feb. 12, on a $126.4 million school bond issue that includes the construction of two elementary schools and one junior high school. If approved, it would be the largest bond issue in the district’s history.
...

Cost to taxpayers would be approximately $12 extra per year for every $100,000 in home value. The tax would last for five years.

...

Moore Public Schools currently has the third largest enrollment for school districts in Oklahoma. Moore Public Schools is growing rapidly, with about 23,000 students and nearly 2,000 new enrollments in the past five years.

With more than 5,000 new home starts expected and continuing business and commercial growth in and near the school district’s boundaries, growth in Moore Public Schools is expected to continue.

You would think that people would wake up to that fact, but they just never seem to.

The Growth Ponzi Scheme - Strong Towns

[G.Walker]

Since I live in Moore, and my kids go to Moore Public Schools, I believe this is very good for the district. These additional elementary schools are much needed as the elementary school my kids attend has the largest attendance and its over crowded. Moore is one of the fastest if not the fastest growing city in the metro area...I am glad to see this passed, and I voted.

[Just the facts]

I guess I have to ask then, why aren't the Moore schools self supporting through existing property taxes? If the system expects constant growth why aren't normal property taxes high enough to fund the growth and stop the over-crowding before it happens? Many schools are over-crowded the day they open. Instead of building 2 elementary schools - build 4.

[G.Walker]

I guess I have to ask then, why aren't the Moore schools self supporting through existing property taxes. If the system expects constant growth why aren't normal property taxes high enough to fund the growth and stop the over-crowding before it happens? Many schools are over-crowded the day they open.

I really don't think Moore city leaders expected this type of fast growth. From 2000-2010 Moore's population grew at the rate of 34%. Its growing even faster now...

[G.Walker]

I believe Moore's fast growth is contributed by Moore being a 'family friendly city'. A lot of Moore's economic development is focused on retail, parks, and schools, which all caters to bring in young families to establish roots. The cost of living in Moore is pretty low compared to cities like Norman, and has easier access Oklahoma City. I wouldn't be surprised if the Moore/Norman area is the fastest growing area in the state.

[Just the facts]

Actually, never mind. Thanks for your answers G.Walker

[Plutonic Panda]

Moore is a very nice city. My father owns a car dealer/rental dealership there. I go just about everyday and it is really coming along nicely. There's this section of 12th St. that has been taking forever to reconstruct in pavement, which is kind of weird. It seems progress has come to standstill.

[Zuplar]

I'm glad the bond issue for the schools passed. I live in a part of OKC that has Moore schools, yet the closest "building" is at least 8 miles away. Although I don't currently have kids it seems as though the school is building my direction, close to Mustang, which I can only imagine will in the long term increase property values. I was hoping that the MNTC bond didn't pass as I have never been a huge fan of Vo-Tech's. I really can't complain as I unfortunately forgot to vote. I had the best intentions but due to the snow and everything going on, I just forgot.

I was curious, does anyone know where MPS will be buying land for future schools? I've never seen any areas in which they were looking, although I know it's been mentioned they wanted to acquire some. I think it's smart planning as the Southwest area continues to develop land is only going to become less available and more expensive.

[SoonerDave]

I guess I have to ask then, why aren't the Moore schools self supporting through existing property taxes? If the system expects constant growth why aren't normal property taxes high enough to fund the growth and stop the over-crowding before it happens? Many schools are over-crowded the day they open. Instead of building 2 elementary schools - build 4.

Because property taxes in and of themselves aren't a mathematically sound mechanism for apportioning/distributing public costs for education. In reality, its a redistribution of income mechanism. It forces two otherwise identical families with two kids attending different schools in the same district to pay entirely different amounts for, theoretically, the same education. I realize property taxes aren't going away, but I've yet to be given a sound argument why my house means I should pay more for my kids' education than someone else's.

There's also a separate argument that it forces people with no kids to pay into a system from which they derive no direct benefit, but that's obviously offset by the counterargument that everyone benefits from an educated populace.

[Zuplar]

I understand the argument against 2 families paying different prices for education, but at the same time you do still get a good education even if you are one of those that are paying more than the average family pays. Unfortunately it seems as though the more money you make, the more you spend, bigger house you buy, etc, you always wind up paying more.

[SoonerDave]

I understand the argument against 2 families paying different prices for education, but at the same time you do still get a good education even if you are one of those that are paying more than the average family pays. Unfortunately it seems as though the more money you make, the more you spend, bigger house you buy, etc, you always wind up paying more.

And that's the core of the redistribution mechanism. A larger house implies its owner is "obviously" able to pay more, so its "fair" to take from their pockets and burden them with a tax increase that may be several hundred percent higher than someone living just a few miles away.

If I, as an individual, benefit from public education by virtue of an educated populace in the same general way a single person does (or a couple with no kids, for that matter), then we ideally should bear an equal amount of that base expense in providing it - on a per-capita basis. But the day-to-day education costs are tied more to the actual bodies in the classrooms, which means a case could be made that I, with my two kids, should subsidize more of that direct expense than that theoretical no-child couple/single. And a family with 4 kids should be paying more than my family of 2 kids, and so on. But we know that'll never happen, because those who benefit the most from the subsidy aren't about to support any notion to make the distribution of expense more equitable.

On a side note, does anyone here know if there is a constitutional or legislative cap (or floor, for that matter) on the interest rate that school systems can offer on bonded indebtedness? I was STUNNED to read that the cap on the bonds being issue in Moore was 10%. There was no mention of the starting level, or how that level changes, but that it could escalate to 10% all made me gasp in disbelief. In this economy, an investment paying back 5% is pretty attractive! If there's some broader reason for that, I'd be willing to listen...

[Zuplar]

Wealth distribution always benefits those at the bottom, yet they tend to be the ones that complain. Taxes in Cleveland county seem to be ridiculous anyways. I can't believe that my property taxes are double what my homeowners insurance is, and I live in a decent size newer home. I was hoping new retail development and the new schools closer would help improve my property value, but the catch to that is that I'd have to pay higher taxes. Luckily the only saving grace is I got a good deal on it to begin with.

And sign me up a 5% return on my money. Six years ago it was pretty common, anymore it seems to be a pipe dream.

[bille]

I was curious, does anyone know where MPS will be buying land for future schools? I've never seen any areas in which they were looking, although I know it's been mentioned they wanted to acquire some. I think it's smart planning as the Southwest area continues to develop land is only going to become less available and more expensive.

I can't say for the junior high but the elementary school will be located at SE34th and Sunnylane. The land hasn't been purchased yet to my understanding but dirt work began on that area (to build up the pad) probably a year ago. The initial dirt work has been done for quite some time now. My understanding is due to it being a two story school and the fact that it is in a flood zone a lot of build up was necessary. I can't speak for sure as I have no knowledge in that field, all I know is they added A LOT of dirt and built the majority of that corner up several feet. If you've driven by that corner you can't miss it.