Minimum wage going up?

[Keith]

If legislators have their way, they will try to raise the minimum wage from $5.15 to at least $6.15 hr. There are actually two different law makers that have proposed two different plans to be considered. Lgislators are trying to raise the minimum wage so that "those making minimum wage will not live in poverty." Even if they raised it to $7.00 an hour, it will help some, but not much. I don't know anyone that can live comfortably on $7.00 an hour.

Small business owners are fighting back, in fear that they will lose out, especially since their profits aren't as much as some of the big businesses. This won't be an easy battle for the legislature, so I guess we will see who wins this one...the legislature or the small business owners.


http://www.newsok.com/article/1417680/?template=business/main

[windowphobe]

I think it's doomed unless you can get House Republicans behind it, and you probably can't.

Still, why $7? Why not $8 or $10 or $12? All these numbers are essentially arbitrary. The guy who writes the payroll checks presumably knows how much he can afford.

[mranderson]

I think it's doomed unless you can get House Republicans behind it, and you probably can't.

Still, why $7? Why not $8 or $10 or $12? All these numbers are essentially arbitrary. The guy who writes the payroll checks presumably knows how much he can afford.

Not how much he can afford. It is how much will it effect his club memebrship, the payment on his BMW, the payment on that half million dollar house...And thinking... The hell with the working stiff.

[Midtowner]

Not how much he can afford. It is how much will it effect his club memebrship, the payment on his BMW, the payment on that half million dollar house...And thinking... The hell with the working stiff.

Anyone who works for minimum wage and willingly accepts that condition of employment deserves nothing more. Heck, AOL will hire just about anyone for $8.00/hr.

I don't know of anyone that attempts to support their families on a minimum wage job. That would just be dumb. A lot of businesses do depend on low-wage employees (mostly high school kids) to remain profitable. In my mind, businesses that hire kids are doing us all a favor and occupying kids free time while teaching them the value of a pay check.

If minimum wage goes up, you're just assigning an arbitrary value to labor. It won't take long for inflation to catch up.

[floater]

I think it's doomed unless you can get House Republicans behind it, and you probably can't.

Still, why $7? Why not $8 or $10 or $12? All these numbers are essentially arbitrary. The guy who writes the payroll checks presumably knows how much he can afford.

That absolutely right. $7 was probably arrived at because it's a whole number above the current minimum wage.

A wage is an opinion poll among employers and workers. It's the equilibrium between what employers think they can afford and what workers are generally willing to accept for their work. If workers accept that wage, that's fine. If workers don't accept a wage, the employer will be forced to raise the wage if they want a suitable candidate pool for the job.

[Jay]

Minimum wage is not intended to support a family. Minimum wage is a starting point for someone who has no expierence and no job skills. The main problem with minimum wage is the complacency of the worker. After the worker obtains enough job skills and performs his/her job at an acceptable level. They have to make the decision to either ask for a promotion or look for a better job.

My career started in high school washing dishes at Crockett's. When I couldn't make any more than $4.30 and hour I moved on to Pratt Foods. At the end of High School I knew I didn't want to go to college right away. I also knew that there was no way I could support my self on $5.80 an hour. I joined the military and made better money, lived a decent lifestyle and saved some money. When I left the military I went work for Circuit City working on commission. When Circuit City ended commission I changed job titles and started working for $10 an hour. Now I am going to school in my off time to get a degree so I can make bettter money.

My point to my rambling is this the worker controlls how much money they make.
If you lack the skills go enroll in a program somewhere and follow your dream. You have the time to go to class. Classes are online, on Cox Cable and one day or night a week some schools even offer weekend clasees. Give up an episode of Survivor and better your chances for a real job. Finding a good job may even mean moving to a new city. All you have to do is make the effort.

[mranderson]

One thing to remember. And something some people will just not understand. There are people who try and try and try, but can not get off that low wage train. They are well educated, intellegent, hard workers, friendly, have a lot of desire. But they can not find that job that will put them on the road to finacial freedom. They try until they are blue in the face to find a job in a career they love, just to have the door shut in their face with every contact. They have the skills, they have the training, and they have the love for the industry. A burning passion to be the best in the field. However, the door remains closed.

Since they must work, they are stuck in that low wage rut. Yes, sometimes they can buy a nice set of wheels, but they must choose between reliable transportation and live in a home that does not meet their desire or live in a home they own and drive a sled that might not get them to work. They live in near poverty, yet, legally, they are not. Granted, they might find a job with great benefits, but those benefits do not pay the bills. They can not participate in 401K plans or invest on their own because they do not make enough money. They live such a misrable working life, they hate getting up the next morning for work.

By forcing the employer to pay a living wage, it does two things. It creates a world where the worker is stable. Of course, being treated with respect instead of an investment is key also. It also gives the economy a boost. The story that prices will climb because of higher wages is a myth. Wages are a business expense and are tax deductable. The more the employer has in deductions, the lower the tax. Plus it creates growth in the industry because there is more disposable income. If you want a low training wage, fine. Then the law should be that a "training" wage can not be paid if the worker is over 21. After that age, the minimum wage shoud be $10.00 per hour with required medical insurance.

I know middle aged people who have never made over $10.00 per hour because of the reasons above. It also causes a person to lose self esteem and confidence in themselves.

There is nothing anyone can say that will convince me otherwise. I was raised by a man who paid his janitor $30,000 a year in todays money... And he was the lowest paid staff member. My dad always said "your staff comes first. Pay them a living wage, give them benefits out the wahzoo, and treat them like a friend, and they will do almost anything you ask (ask is the key, not tell... Ask), and stay with you until they retire or die." Yes, you will have people who do not appreciate this, but very few. Dad never fired anyone except once, and that was for insider trading when the guy was indicted for it, never had anyone quit, and never had an unhappy staff member. If businesses would use this theory instead of paying poverty wages and taking the rest for themselves, then welfare and other assistance programs would be almost non existant. The economy would flourish, taxes would be lower, and this country would be quite healthy.

Yes. Some people will say I am in a dream world. What do I say to them? You are either in denial or have lived a very sheltered wealthy life... Or both.

[windowphobe]

And would this apply only to US citizens, either current or pending, or would it be extended to persons, um, lacking documentation?

[mranderson]

And would this apply only to US citizens, either current or pending, or would it be extended to persons, um, lacking documentation?

Please explain your comment. It makes no sense.

[Jay]

I fully understand your argument Mr. Anderson, it does seem like some people work a lifetime to accomplish something and never succeed.

I myself am the type of person that faithfully believes in the concept of keep trying and you will succeed. I just refuse to quit on any part of my life. If I fail at something 10 times in a row and everyone else succeeds. I am obviously doing something wrong.

I just find it hard to belive that some people can't succeed and others can succeed. The difference between the two is this; one refuses to give up and it doesn't bother him to do whatever it takes to succeed. The other expects a handout and complains about every step of the journey to success.

[windowphobe]

Conventional wisdom holds that undocumented workers, or "illegal aliens" as they used to be called, fill in the slots that actual citizens won't touch. Will your proposal extend to everyone regardless of citizenship, or will the undocumenteds be excluded?

There isn't an answer I'm specifically looking for here; I just want some feedback on the subject.

[mranderson]

Conventional wisdom holds that undocumented workers, or "illegal aliens" as they used to be called, fill in the slots that actual citizens won't touch. Will your proposal extend to everyone regardless of citizenship, or will the undocumenteds be excluded?

There isn't an answer I'm specifically looking for here; I just want some feedback on the subject.

What does what I said have to do with illegal alians?

[windowphobe]

Because if there's a steady pool of them, it can (theoretically) put downward pressure on wages, making a higher minimum more difficult to sustain.

The California experience - they have a higher minimum wage than the Federal standard, and a lot of undocumented workers - is, to me anyway, inconclusive.

[mranderson]

Windowphobe: I do not believe anyone in the United States illgeally has the right to work. In fact, as the Nephew of a former director of the INS, I have been taught to believe illegals belong in hand cuffs, in a jail cell, awiting deportation. Plus, due to deportation, they can never enter the United States again. Legally or illegally.

So. No. It would be for anyone who has the legal right to work in the United States.

[Midtowner]

Now entering fantasy land! A land where illegal immigrants don't go across the border because they are not allowed! In this fairytale land, they wouldn't dream of stealing a citizen's identity and social security number in order to qualify for welfare services and be able to accept jobs!

What a happy fun land that would be!

Sorry anderson, as much as you like to say that we can stop immigration, unless you start machine gunning the teenagers crossing the border, you're not going to accomplish anything.

Might as well do our best to make it as safe as possible, and ensure that immigrating legally to obtain work is easier and more profitable than doing so through fraud.

[Patrick]

I wasn't going to post on this topic, but I guess I will. I personally feel that the federal minimum wage has needed to be raised for years now. President Clinton was the last person to raise the mimimum wage. That was well over 4 years ago.

One thing to consider though....if they raise minimum wage, prices will just go up.

It does seem like employee supply and demand has pretty much taken over. Very few employers actually pay minimum wage anymore. Who would actually work for it? I wouldn't. I think raising minimum wage would just give businesses an excuse to raise prices. Seems like the cost of products/cost of living dictates what companies have to pay their employees.

Maybe though if we raise minimum wage, other wages would go up across the board though.

I really don't think a receptionist getting $8 an hour for allof her computer knowledge and various tasks is a decent wage. $10+ is more like it.

[Patrick]

By the way, you know minimum wage needs increasing when Oklahoma, a state with one of the lowest costs of living, is considering raising it.

[Jay]

I never have understood why so many people think raising minimum wage is the answer to help those in need. What almost always happens is prices go up and jobs are elimated.

Sure nobody ever gets laid off because of a wage increase. What usually happens is when one worker is promoted or resigns they are not replaced. Say if you have five workers doing one job and two quit. The other three workers will take up the slack and be tasked with more responsibilty.

You can raise minimum wage to $10 but, inflation will kick in and re-adjust the cost of living. The minimum wage worker ends up having the same quality of life at $10 an hour that he/she did at $5.25 an hour.

We all scream more money for the little guy. Then we realize later we pay more at the pump, at the checkout and at the restaraunt. The key to more money is a good education or a well honed skill in a specific trade.

[Midtowner]

It may help though if an increase in the minimum wage is not very large. For example, if it were increased to $7.00, most people in lower-range jobs in the workforce already make at least $7.00/hr. Possibly with the exception of grocery and other teenage jobs.

I'm not sure that a raise to $7.00 would really cause much inflation at all. I think the biggest consequence would be kids with a lot more disposable income -- something that while helping the economy, may also contribute to our drug problems.

(I know that's a bit of a reach).

[dkaye2005]

As we have seen in other cities....where the minimum wage goes up, so does the cost of living. Apartment complexes will raise the rents, contractors will feel more comfortable charging an extra dollar or two, even babysitters will ask a little more.

I work in the insurance industry and deal with employees that live paycheck to paycheck. Raising the minumum wage some would actually help my business. I have some concerns with raising the minumum wage too much and forcing some employers to hire sparingly. Raising the unemployment rate doesn't help anyone.

[mranderson]

Just because a rare case of a city raising the cost of living, that does not mean the minumum wage causes it.

The minimum wage has not gone up in around ten years. What has caused the cost of living to raise is greedy utilities companies gouging people, oil companies gouging people with false reports of fuel shortages, hurricanes causing food suppliers and other suppliers of products that rely on things destroyed by the hurricanes. NOT the minimum wage.

When the minimum wage is raised, it creates more disposable income, thus spurs the economy. In other words, the people effected (who get raises) have more money to spend. I do not ever remember seeing a time where prices rose because of a raise in the minimum wage.

[rxis]

I don't know much about the effects of minimum wage hikes other than from basic macro and micro economics, but i do know that if the minimum wage increases to 6.15, my uncle's employees will try to demand over $7-8.00 from their current pay of $5.30-6.30.

Most of the jobs require no skill and most employees train on the job. It is also hard enough to find good help (reliable) in southside Okc, so he will be paying more for someone to do something as simple as picking up a light item and moving it across the room. Okay, its a little more tasking than that but you get the picture. It is one of those jobs where you just show up and half @** your shift. Thank goodness for hard working mothers in that area.

The smaller firms will definitely suffer while the larger firms like my uncle's may benefit from economies of scale. The larger firms will also employ more of the smaller firm's share of workers because they are more likely capable of providing the better facilities and higher wages. Its strange how the workers want higher wages at the better facilities that offer more hours of work than the smaller firms that usually have worse conditions. I can go on and on with my "prewriting" of stuff I'm just now thinking about concerning the business, but I think I better stop.

[rxis]

If the minimum wage goes up, I hope suppliers won't try to use it as an excuse to gouge firms. It is bad enough as it is now. Maybe if the manner in which employeees were compensated were different.....I'm rambling again.