OKC's Outdated Inferiority Complex

[OKC Ex-Expat]

(Hope I'm putting this in the right section.)

So I moved back to OKC this January after being gone 15 years. The original MAPS was just getting started then, and so much has changed since then! It feels like a completely different city from the one I grew up in.

But OKC still has a pretty bad inferiority complex. When telling people I moved back, they get real confused. It's as though they can't believe anyone would choose to move here. And they're doubly confused that anyone one choose to move back.

And then they ask, with all the doubt and hesitation they can muster, "How do you like it here?" They seem to think I'm just being nice when I tell them I'm glad to be back.

I also hear people say that OKC is still two or three years behind the rest of the country (it's not, not that I can tell). And behind every positive thing they say abou OKC, there's an unspoken parenthesis. "Yeah, downtown has improved a lot (well, by Oklahoma standards.)."

What's it going to take for OKC to get over this inferiority complex? The city is hardly touched by the recession (compared to where I used to live), the Thunder almost made it to the final round, and we're building one of the best downtowns in the country, especially if we can get that streetcar built. What's to be ashamed of? What's it going to take for people to be proud of OKC, without apology?

[Spartan]

I agree that there is a lot to be proud of right now, but understand for locals who have been pushing this progress for the last 15 years, it's very hard still. You can't just go speak your mind and say something that OKC needs to do better on, urban-wise, and get a standing ovation. You still upset a lot of people when you suggest things like green building, historic preservation, usable public transit, economic development, quality of life initiatives and other things that sort of "seek to turn OKC into Austin or Denver." There is a strong progressive movement, but it's not without a struggle still. And then anti-progressive movement is also getting emboldened, especially when we have a system thanks to MAPS3 that gives state fairgrounds interests as much if not more influence than streetcar interests. And lord knows MAPS3 has become all about a convention center that nobody wants. Historic preservation is fleeting as well, and with the marching drum of "progress," a lot of great things have been lost as well. You can't just be for everything or against everything. Progressives are for and against a mix of things, anti-progressives are against and for a mix of things. Things are not nearly as black and white as someone might have envisioned they could be 20 years ago.

We're at the point that nobody can deny that we have a downtown that provides a really cool environment, perhaps one of the coolest in the nation for cities our size, and attracts a lot of investment, again, perhaps one of the most-invested-in downtowns for cities our size. So we have coolness and investment. How do we make that translate into livability and quality of life? We still lack in terms of urban living options, almost all of our peer cities are ahead of us there. Not that a "race" matters, but the point that DOES matter is that we could do A LOT better on urban living and quality of life. For many, and most leaders it seems, quality of life still means being able to get to Edmond or NW OKC easily. For the objective progressives, obviously that isn't going to cut it.

And we still live in a state that is woefully terrible on health, openness, quality of life, education, incomes, and so on. OKC is an oasis for coolness and investment. However even in OKC we are still having the same problems that the rest of the state is having when it comes to openness, educational attainment, and healthy living. We have entered into a new class of cities, no doubt, however we have carried many of our old problems with us which just makes us look really odd standing next to cities like Denver and Kansas City. So again, it's complicated. But it's awesome that you came back to Oklahoma. Right now as far as "where we are" it's about getting over that hump. We need OKC's coolness and investment benefits to translate into quality of life and benefit the other areas that we have still yet to improve much on.

But there is no doubt that we've made improvements across the board. Perhaps we didn't realize in what bad shape OKC was back in the 1990s. One thing that can definitely NOT be said about OKC is that it's a slum--we used to hear visitors say that a lot, and now that's rarely the impression that people get. Also keep in mind that I've made this post pretty objective. Of course I'm a lot more passionate and emotional because I'm personally identified with the urban progressive side of issues. Things are a lot more contentious behind the scenes than I have perhaps illustrated with my descriptions of where the city is as a whole. Very often I and others are incredibly frustrated with things, but occasionally, things can exceed my wildest hopes and I am literally stunned at how well something turns out. Case in point: the Thunder, Devon Tower, and the Myriad Gardens.

But as for an inferiority-complex, I think some who are just hapless bystanders to all of this might be that way, but the more involved people definitely don't have an inferiority complex. I can be very critical and when I feel like I need to bash something, I will mince no words, and spare no feelings. Some say I'm overly pessimistic in this regard. Well, I take for granted I suppose that we're all appreciative of what OKC has become on the whole. Am I appreciative of the specific fact that most people here still don't know what a sidewalk is?? Give me a break. But in the 1990s, to be kvetching about sidewalks would have been ridiculous considering the much huger problems we had. Also, having lived in Canada and Europe, I sometimes forget to frame things within the realm of what is acceptable to advocate to my fellow Okies. I do feel like people who hate my pessimism have an inferiority complex. It shouldn't bother people that I can unequivocally separate a specific issue and talk about many examples of places that are doing way better than us on that specific issue. But for them it's as if I'm criticizing our very existence of being.

[betts]

We walked our dogs in the Myriad Gardens today and while it's a bit fussy for my taste, I think it's going to impress a lot of people. Looking over at the Devon Complex is pretty impressive as well. We'll have the new Ford Center entrance later this year, at least a third of the streets will be scaped, Automobile Alley has things happening, as does Midtown and the Triangle. Good things are happening.

I would like to see something done with that great series of buildings on the South side of Main St. in Bricktown. I walked by there today on my way home from the Myriad Gardens and all I could think of was what a great retail strip that would be. The city needs to do something to promote retail in downtown and that would be a great place to start, because the spaces are relatively small and you've got the Bricktown foot traffic, as well as more people living in Deep Deuce and the Triangle now.

[PennyQuilts]

OKC has blossomed during a time when a lot of the country has withered on the vine. All this constant criticism of Oklahoma/Oklahoma City by some is much like a mother who contantly tells her son, in public, that he is a loser "because she loves him and only wants to help." Yeah, right.

The kindest way to regard these types of comments would be to assume these people are just clueless about the City's history and how amazing its progess has been in the past 10 - 15 years. Honestly, I think they must have no idea how OKC stacks up to other, similarly sized cities. Bitching about sidewalks in the face of its amazing transformation is eyebrow raising, to say the least.

[HewenttoJared]

What's it going to take for people to be proud of OKC, without apology?

Dishonesty? Things can always improve.

[earlywinegareth]

Well no one who ever talked to me about OKC got the impression we felt inferior. I've always talked proudly about OKC, saying it got a bad rap until people actually came here and experienced it for themselves.

[OKC Ex-Expat]

I don't think perfection needs to be the standard. Getting people to do the right thing is always a struggle, but it is possible to do enough, or to do enough for now.

I also think we do ourselves a disfavor when we make things like the streetcar and green buildings primarily about doing the right thing, or about making people be less conservative. In places where I've seen them happen, especially green buildings, it's been as much about showing off as it's been about doing the right thing.

And I think that's fine. For all the opposition to the streetcar, people just need to sit back and think about what a great impression it will make on visitors. I think about a trip to Portland a couple of years ago. For all of that streetcar's environmental qualities, my main impression was, "Wow, look at what these people can do!" I had the same impression in Salt Lake City. It shows a strong commitment to being good at being a city, to achievement.

OKC just has to keeping making more good decisions than poor or mediocre ones, with the choices it has on the table right now. We have a great track record with that these last few years, in spite of some opposition, so I'm not too worried about it yet.

[Spartan]

OKC has blossomed during a time when a lot of the country has withered on the vine. All this constant criticism of Oklahoma/Oklahoma City by some is much like a mother who contantly tells her son, in public, that he is a loser "because she loves him and only wants to help." Yeah, right.

The kindest way to regard these types of comments would be to assume these people are just clueless about the City's history and how amazing its progess has been in the past 10 - 15 years. Honestly, I think they must have no idea how OKC stacks up to other, similarly sized cities. Bitching about sidewalks in the face of its amazing transformation is eyebrow raising, to say the least.

Unfortunately we still have our fair share of people like this who insist on defining the parameters of the debate on progress that they have opposed at every way. And I think people should explain why they are against sidewalks in the first place, instead of trying to go around the issue by again bragging about the other progress that they always opposed before the fact. You can't have a real debate with these types of people unfortunately.

Before I listen to someone try and obfuscate the issue with the mention of "progress" I'd like to see their report card on the aforementioned progress from the last 15 years.

[adaniel]

Well no one who ever talked to me about OKC got the impression we felt inferior. I've always talked proudly about OKC, saying it got a bad rap until people actually came here and experienced it for themselves.

I tend to agree with this. I actually had a flight delayed last month and struck up some small talk with the lady next to me. She was from Chicago and went on and on about how much she liked it here. The people around here, all natives I assumed, seemed stunned that someone wasn't slamming OKC. It was a bit surreal.

The inferiority complex comes more from Oklahoma than specifically OKC. In fact, I'm starting to hear the following statement more and more:"I really like OKC but I don't like Oklahoma." Lets face it, this state as a whole has some serious problems, such that OKC may eventually hit a ceiling per say as far as development is concerned. But for now I think people are pretty happy to live here. Look how high our city scores with QOL surveys. Also, remember that OKC was one of the few cities to notch a large of a population gain for cities with 500K or more.

I really don't hear a lot of disparaging comments about OKC, moreso than I hear pointed complaints about specific areas like, "this road is in really bad shape" or "this neighborhood really needs to be revitalized." If anything, I consider this a good thing because, while yes this city has made remarkable progress we still do have a ways to go and people are not satisfied with just okay. MAPS and associated development succeeded in getting this city to a level comparable to other majors cities in metros with 1-1.5 million people. We are now transitioning to a level in which we are competing with the Kansas Citys and San Antonios of the world. Unfortunately we have nothing like Country Club Plaza or the Riverwalk or things those caliber of cities have, but the pieces are in place, the money is surprisingly there, it just needs good execution and leadership to happen.

[PennyQuilts]

Unfortunately we still have our fair share of people like this who insist on defining the parameters of the debate on progress that they have opposed at every way. And I think people should explain why they are against sidewalks in the first place, instead of trying to go around the issue by again bragging about the other progress that they always opposed before the fact. You can't have a real debate with these types of people unfortunately.

Before I listen to someone try and obfuscate the issue with the mention of "progress" I'd like to see their report card on the aforementioned progress from the last 15 years.

No one is saying they are against sidewalks. Don't twist my words. What I said was that some people are so caught up in the need to bitch about every piddling thing that they miss the forest for the trees and do this city and state a disservice. If nothing else, who the heck wants to live in a place where people are so quick to complain about their own city and the people who are proud of it?

[PennyQuilts]

I tend to agree with this. I actually had a flight delayed last month and struck up some small talk with the lady next to me. She was from Chicago and went on and on about how much she liked it here. The people around here, all natives I assumed, seemed stunned that someone wasn't slamming OKC. It was a bit surreal.

The inferiority complex comes more from Oklahoma than specifically OKC. In fact, I'm starting to hear the following statement more and more:"I really like OKC but I don't like Oklahoma." Lets face it, this state as a whole has some serious problems, such that OKC may eventually hit a ceiling per say as far as development is concerned. But for now I think people are pretty happy to live here. Look how high our city scores with QOL surveys. Also, remember that OKC was one of the few cities to notch a large of a population gain for cities with 500K or more.

I really don't hear a lot of disparaging comments about OKC, moreso than I hear pointed complaints about specific areas like, "this road is in really bad shape" or "this neighborhood really needs to be revitalized." If anything, I consider this a good thing because, while yes this city has made remarkable progress we still do have a ways to go and people are not satisfied with just okay. MAPS and associated development succeeded in getting this city to a level comparable to other majors cities in metros with 1-1.5 million people. We are now transitioning to a level in which we are competing with the Kansas Citys and San Antonios of the world. Unfortunately we have nothing like Country Club Plaza or the Riverwalk or things those caliber of cities have, but the pieces are in place, the money is surprisingly there, it just needs good execution and leadership to happen.

This is a good post in that it is even handed and I appreciate the fact that you recognize that the whole world doesn't think Oklahoma is just awful. They don't. That is self inflicted by people who think they have something to prove - either to people who don't live here or to the people who - horrors - love it here and are proud as hell of its continuing progress.

[Larry OKC]

This is something I have never understood. Why do Oklahoman's have this inferiority complex? Then they project the self loathing onto others. I don't know if it was the Grapes of Wrath or what. A study the state chamber did prior to the Centennial, showed that most people didn't have ANY opinion of Oklahoma (positive or negative). We have a blank slate and can make that opinion anything we want it to be.

I am a native born Oklahoman (live across the street from where I was born). Was raised and traveled all over the U.S. and have never been ashamed or embarrassed to say where I was from. But the image I get from most of my fellow Okies is something akin to Sally Field and her infamous "You like me, you really like me!" Oscar acceptance speech. Or SNL's Stuart Smalley, doing his daily affirmations, saying to themselves as they gaze into the mirror, "I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and Doggone It, People Like Me!:" Hoping that if they repeat it enough times, they will convince themselves and the outside world that it is true. Not realizing that most don't see us the way we see ourselves.

[Spartan]

No one is saying they are against sidewalks. Don't twist my words. What I said was that some people are so caught up in the need to bitch about every piddling thing that they miss the forest for the trees and do this city and state a disservice. If nothing else, who the heck wants to live in a place where people are so quick to complain about their own city and the people who are proud of it?

Oh, so you think advocating for sidewalks does this city a disservice? That's funny, I think not arguing for more improvements does this city a disservice, but to each their own I guess.

[lake hefner breeze]

(What's to be ashamed of? What's it going to take for people to be proud of OKC, without apology?

My answer is:it will take time.

Living in OKC sucked for a loooooonnnnnggg time and people tend to think in terms of how things have been not how they currently are or where they are heading.

Or maybe it's humility. Lots of people here have been churched to be humble. That could be a good thing. Anybody can go around tellling everybody how great they are, true or not. This way maybe we get the best people to move here that pick up on the best kept secret...that this is a diamond in the rough.

[Pete]

I've said many times that when I come back to OKC to visit, I can see a big shift in the attitudes of people that live there in terms of civic pride -- a huge change from when I moved away in 1990.

But I think the recent past is still burned into the brains of many, especially the massive economic collapse of the 80's and incredibly mis-guided urban renewal attempts of the 60's and 70's. So, while there are plenty of positive things to point to, OKC was really at a disadvantage for quite a while so in many ways we are still digging ourselves out of a deep hole.

I also think many fear that we are just inches away from slipping back down the slope. That the legislature and local leaders are all morons and manipulated by a handful of good-ole-boys and that too much of the local population fights against any type of real progress. And/or that the oil & gas industry is going to go bust again and we'll have a repeat of 30 years ago.

You can see these attitudes/concerns all over this forum, and those that post here are certainly among the more enlightened members of the community.

I think most can see real progress and are even proud of it, yet at the same time fear we are going to lose the momentum. As more years pass and more and more successes pile up, people will start to let go of the failures of the past... But that is going to take time.

[Spartan]

I also think many fear that we are just inches away from slipping back down the slope. That the legislature and local leaders are all morons and manipulated by a handful of good-ole-boys and that too much of the local population fights against any type of real progress. And/or that the oil & gas industry is going to go bust again and we'll have a repeat of 30 years ago.

When you're entrenched and you're in it for the long haul, it's hard to get past these issues which are still very real. If oil sank to $20/barrel...(nervous laugh) that would not be good for OKC. Does anyone really want to say they have total faith in the State Legislature? Yikes. And it is still very amazing how many people still fight progress, even on little issues, such as sidewalks.

[Pete]

Oil prices will always be somewhat volatile but there has been a big fundamental change that is likely to be permanent: the U.S. is no longer willing to sell out to the Middle East just to get cheap oil. 9/11 changed all that forever and therefore domestic production is always going to be a high priority. I'm sure at some point the industry and OKC will feel a hit when prices start to come down, but I just don't see anything like the 80's on the horizon.

The state legislature is frequently an embarrassment but there are plenty of thriving, progressive communities that overcome / work around similar limitations.

And although there are some that are very fearful of change, the mere fact that an incredibly conservative population has now voted three times to raise taxes to better their own community -- including street cars and sidewalks -- is hard evidence of a real shift that is only gaining momentum.


All these changes are not happening as deeply or quickly as many of us would like, but there is no doubting the general direction -- even when it's two steps forward and one step back.

[bluedogok]

Oklahoma doesn't have a corner on the market when it comes to legislative idiocy, that seems to be rampant in all 50 states and really at all levels of government.

[Spartan]

Before I respond to this, I want to make clear that I'm not disagreeing with anything. Yeah, there are a lot of positives--I said it earlier myself that sometimes even I am shocked looking back at some of the progress. So these responses are mostly taking for granted that we're all pretty happy for the most part.

Oil prices will always be somewhat volatile but there has been a big fundamental change that is likely to be permanent: the U.S. is no longer willing to sell out to the Middle East just to get cheap oil. 9/11 changed all that forever and therefore domestic production is always going to be a high priority. I'm sure at some point the industry and OKC will feel a hit when prices start to come down, but I just don't see anything like the 80's on the horizon.

The odd thing about this though is that OKC is almost in a lose-lose predicament either way when it comes to the price of gas, because of stubborn leadership that slowly pushes for total changes. If we could cut down the auto-dependence, $5 gas could be an awesome thing for OKC. It puts money in our economy, grows our corporations, powers research in our industries, and locally, we can use that as an incentive to build a more sustainable community, because nobody wants to pay for $5 gas even if it pays their salary directly or indirectly. However we don't do that. We are still as car-dependent as we've always been, no signs of changing yet (although we are talking about 50-100 year transit plans, which I consider a cop-out), and how high is gas back home now? $4 yet or almost? And people just pay it and go on with their lives. We still brag about our highways. So, I still think as far as mentalities go, our leaders leave us ill-equipped to fully take advantage of what could be a good thing for OKC. However, if gas prices plummet, then our highways and low congestion become awesome things again, but that economic driver dissipates. So it's a strange scenario that OKC doesn't seem to have a plan for either way.

The state legislature is frequently an embarrassment but there are plenty of thriving, progressive communities that overcome / work around similar limitations.

Agreed, but none could be more embarrassing than the OK Legislature. That is a scary group if there were ever one. What's scary is that many of its leaders, and its most vocal embarrassments, come from OKC city limits (where they have been reelected many times, ala Sally Kern). The OKC City Council is legitimately a liberal group...I think now we can officially say that. But that is one layer of government which favors progressives, and beyond that, schiza... one advantage on the local level that the progressives have is that when issues such as transit and urban planning come up, the other side doesn't have any ideas, solutions, critiques, suggestions of where to go, or any background in any way. So I personally think it's been a great advantage that when a lot of progressives start talking about a streetcar all at once, there isn't really a counter group that is fully capable of joining the debate on the same level as the advocates. They are mostly too backwards to even know what a streetcar is, honestly.

And although there are some that are very fearful of change, the mere fact that an incredibly conservative population has now voted three times to raise taxes to better their own community -- including street cars and sidewalks -- is hard evidence of a real shift that is only gaining momentum.

This is a golden fact. Interestingly, it's one that the mayor loves to emphasize. However we all know that MAPS3 is flawed. It's also especially awesome that the streetcar and smaller budget items carried the ballot against the convention center. Yet why do we still have to defend the streetcar project from other interests which would like to attack it? Tough question there.

All these changes are not happening as deeply or quickly as many of us would like, but there is no doubting the general direction -- even when it's two steps forward and one step back.

I agree 110% with this. I just dislike oversimplifications of the struggle for progress, and I especially dislike backwards people claiming credit for any of the progress.

[PennyQuilts]

Oh, so you think advocating for sidewalks does this city a disservice? That's funny, I think not arguing for more improvements does this city a disservice, but to each their own I guess.

You can't read, can you.

[earlywinegareth]

I don't understand why anyone would consider OKC inferior. Inferior to what? To Dallas? No thank you, I tried living there 6 months and was very happy to land a job here.

Several things about OKC metro I've always bragged about: no pollution, easy commute, low cost of living, great people, the zoo, cowboy hall of fame, plenty of outdoor activities, OU football, four seasons, not much racism, the arts, professional sports...am sure there are a few others. I've always thought OKC was very livable compared to other places.

[bretthexum]

Awesome posts Spartan. This forum needs a like button.

[Bunty]

It's also especially awesome that the streetcar and smaller budget items carried the ballot against the convention center. Yet why do we still have to defend the streetcar project from other interests which would like to attack it? Tough question there.

I assume some people perceive that public urban transporatation is associated with undesirables, like low income people, and street cars won't take it above that. That don't see that urban public transportation can be attractive for every one.

[Bunty]

Awesome posts Spartan. This forum needs a like button.

But he lost me with "We still brag about our highways." When did we ever start doing that unless it was to venture out of state and discover highways worth bragging about?

[PennyQuilts]

I'm just sorry that the public transit advocates aren't using it all that much, now. I am always happy to see riders on our buses, and not just the ones who are too poor to afford a car. IMO, the best advocate for public trans would be the ones out using what we already have and taking their friends along - and not just on a lark but for real. Move near a line, take it to work consistently. We have bus lines - use them.