OKC Mayor Race 2014

[Bellaboo]

The Doctor is just being the adult in the room and asking the obvious questions that should have been long ago asked.
The cc is going to need a hotel to be viable and will still be a $ pit, as will the streetcar and there was never going to be federal funds for the project. The original MAPS projects a great civic undertaking- MAPSII highjacked by special interests to get taxpayers to build them a cc. Will our barons cover the operating deficits that

Edgar, you and 'the doctor' are little more than a troll. It's been spelled out in black and white over and over again........ and you keep coming back with the same repeated statements. Nothing new here.....

The streetcar TOD got a federal grant in the neighborhood of 10 million IIRC ?

[warreng88]

Edgar, you and 'the doctor' are little more than a troll. It's been spelled out in black and white over and over again........ and you keep coming back with the same repeated statements. Nothing new here.....

The streetcar TOD got a federal grant in the neighborhood of 10 million IIRC ?

Here's that:

http://www.okctalk.com/transportatio...-projects.html

[Midtowner]

The Doctor is just being the adult in the room and asking the obvious questions that should have been long ago asked.
The cc is going to need a hotel to be viable and will still be a $ pit, as will the streetcar and there was never going to be federal funds for the project. The original MAPS projects a great civic undertaking- MAPSII highjacked by special interests to get taxpayers to build them a cc. Will our barons cover the operating deficits that

Your version of history reminds me of a debate we were having elsewhere about the Texas school board's science curriculum, i.e., in that it has very little to do with reality.

MAPS II was MAPS for Kids and has been a huge success. You're welcome to post here and I'm glad to have you here, but stop with the same lame **** over and over again. How on Earth do other cities our size survive when they have conference centers, streetcars and conference center hotels?

[Edgar]

Your version of history reminds me of a debate we were having elsewhere about the Texas school board's science curriculum, i.e., in that it has very little to do with reality.

MAPS II was MAPS for Kids and has been a huge success. You're welcome to post here and I'm glad to have you here, but stop with the same lame **** over and over again. How on Earth do other cities our size survive when they have conference centers, streetcars and conference center hotels?

operating deficits

[warreng88]

operating deficits

So every city that has convention centers, CC hotels and streetcars operate in deficits? REALLY?!?!?

[LuccaBrasi]

I will have to disagree with you there. I DO hold personal animus against Shadid because he is a slimy weasel who lied to my face. I'm a hardcore progressive voter, but I'm not a masochistic idiot, so I have learned the hard way not to trust this charlatan. He may seem nice, but he will lie to your face and stab you in the back. He is NOT a nice guy.

There is a surprising number of people who know him well, who worked to get him elected to Council, who volunteered to knock on doors for him, who are now working for Mick Cornett. Ask yourself what that means. The people who know him best, want him least. That should speak volumes. This guy is REALLY BAD NEWS.

I have been in a couple of different discussions recently with high level city officials who said this very thing.

It was also pointed out to me that ES does not even have his campaign headquarters in his own Ward, and frequently holds rally's or meetings in other Wards. I was also told by someone who knows and has talked with him, that when he was asked why he's not in his own Ward, he honestly answered he has few friends there. They went on to say he has bloodlines that will not support him, although, they obviously can't (won't) come out and publically say that.

That's also in line with sooner's comments...............

[betts]

Every thoughtful, intelligent, progressive Democrat who is at all knowledgeable about city politics I know is supporting Mick Cornett. That says something to me.

[warreng88]

I have been in a couple of different discussions recently with high level city officials who said this very thing.

It was also pointed out to me that ES does not even have his campaign headquarters in his own Ward, and frequently holds rally's or meetings in other Wards. I was also told by someone who knows and has talked with him, that when he was asked why he's not in his own Ward, he honestly answered he has few friends there. They went on to say he has bloodlines that will not support him, although, they obviously can't (won't) come out and publically say that.

That's also in line with sooner's comments...............

Yeah, his headquarters are on the SW/C of NW 7th and Hudson, just west of the Federal building and in the heart of the H&8 area.

[Midtowner]

operating deficits

What are the operating deficits for the MAPS I projects?

[betts]

You can look at operations and maintenance in a vacuum. Everything a municipality owns requires maintenance, and most require an operations budget. If we were to increase the size of the bus system like Ed wants to do, O & M could run as high as $60 million annually, as estimated by COTPA. I don't see him mentioning that little fact. You have to take quality of life, enhancement of development and increased sales taxes into consideration. Not all of those factors can be measured, but looking at what's happening downtown, anyone who ignores what the MAPS projects have done and will continue to do for the city is a fool.

[betts]

Yeah, his headquarters are on the SW/C of NW 7th and Hudson, just west of the Federal building and in the heart of the H&8 area.

That's Meg Salyer's ward.

[MWCGuy]

Not worrying ends with people being ambivalent about voting. Shadid has a large backing of very passionate and persistent voters and "evangelists" Assuming that Cornett is going to walk away with this race could end up being a very costly mistake.

Unless the numbers are astronomical (well over 50k voters), Cornett will not just "walk away" with this thing.

He won the last election with only 14k votes, and turnout was less than 25k. I wouldn't be surprised if Shadid gets close to 25k himself…so Cornett needs supporters to actually go out and vote for the dude…and I hope that all the major businesses are letting their employees know that it is important for this city to get this election right.

This is a municipal election and more people say they will vote than actually do it. I would vote myself but, I am Midwest City resident now so all I can do is watch from the sidelines.

[kevinpate]

This is a municipal election and more people say they will vote than actually do it. ...

Which can be a bigger danger to a popular incumbent than it is to a motivated challenger, even one with some baggage. People with passion for change do decide to vote. People who are complacent did to vote later in the day and then their day takes over and suddenly it's 30 minutes to poll close, or 30 minutes after close, and the oopsey followed by an instant rationalization process kicks in.

Smartest thing candidate shadid has done to date is kick off his race so early. he has maximized his time to grow momentum amongst low information aginners while at the same time increasing the time span for complacency to take a firmer root on the incumbent side. The incumbent is likely to focus on the status quo and staying the course in general terms, and the challenger appears to be building an odd bedfellows coalition of folks who, while having a wide variety of trigger points, agree on one point, they do not like the status quo.

They do not have to agree why they don't like it to want to see a change to it.
They do not have to think the challenger is their savior for all time to support him.
They may have no intention of supporting him beyond the first 60-100 days.

Some people simply want to see Rome burn.
They don't even hate Rome.
They just enjoy the flames and knowing they helped make it happen.

[Edgar]

Edgar,

If you want to prove right now that you are not just a troll, admit that you are wrong, because you squarely are.



CIP (capital improvement project/program) revenue does not include O&M. Do you understand that? I'm surprised Ed doesn't. He's one of 9 people that should know that intimately. I don't get why though he continues to bring it up.

Again. When any citizen votes on a temporary, capital improvements project(s) tax, they are voting on whether or not to give the local government the capital to build the projects defined. Not to maintain them.

Now that you know, will you continue to lie about it?

exactly, no one asaked the obvious question about a dedicated funding source for maintenance.

[LakeEffect]

exactly, no one asaked the obvious question about a dedicated funding source for maintenance.

That's not a true statement. I'd have to spend a lot of time looking through videos of meetings before the vote, but I know this topic was raised.

[betts]

exactly, no one asaked the obvious question about a dedicated funding source for maintenance.

There's no specific dedicated O&M source for anything the city constructs. Where is the dedicated funding source for the buses Ed would like to replace the streetcar with?? There is none. And there won't be one unless the taxpayers agree to set up a permanent dedicated funding source for all mass transit - which they won't do if Ed screws up MAPS and which they won't pass if it contains funding only for buses. It's quite clear that while Ed is undoubtedly a smart guy, he lacks political intelligence. You don't spit in the voters collective faces and then turn around and ask them to trust you with their money again. Or you can ask, but they'll spit back.

[Edgar]

There's no specific dedicated O&M source for anything the city constructs. Where is the dedicated funding source for the buses Ed would like to replace the streetcar with?? There is none. And there won't be one unless the taxpayers agree to set up a permanent dedicated funding source for all mass transit - which they won't do if Ed screws up MAPS and which they won't pass if it contains funding only for buses. It's quite clear that while Ed is undoubtedly a smart guy, he lacks political intelligence. You don't spit in the voters collective faces and then turn around and ask them to trust you with their money again. Or you can ask, but they'll spit back.

True that- have a hunch the MAPSIII bait and switch damms any future initiative.

[warreng88]

True that- have a hunch the MAPSIII bait and switch damms any future initiative.

Edgar, you still haven't answered my question so I will post it again:

What are Ed's plans? What does he want to accomplish and how is he going to accomplish it? Mick has a track record of accomplishments, Ed does not. And no, I do not consider "transparency in government" an accomplishment. He wants to hire more police and firefighters? Where is the money going to come from? He is going to focus more on neighborhoods and not downtown? What is he going to do and where is the money going to come from?

[Edgar]

So every city that has convention centers, CC hotels and streetcars operate in deficits? REALLY?!?!?

Case for bigger Boston convention hall has familiar ring - The Boston Globe

[Edgar]

Edgar, you still haven't answered my question so I will post it again:

Returning city governanace to the people and being mayor of all OKC.

[warreng88]

Returning city governanace to the people and being mayor of all OKC.

So, he is returning city governance to the people by trying to completely derail a project that the people of the city voted for? So, he just wants to be Mayor... He has no other plans but to be Mayor. Got it.

[LakeEffect]

True that- have a hunch the MAPSIII bait and switch damms any future initiative.

Bait and switch? Like trying to kill the streetcar when that's what many, many voters really wanted?

[warreng88]

Case for bigger Boston convention hall has familiar ring - The Boston Globe

Do you read the articles that you post? First of all, the article is from April, 2011. Here are a few snippets from your link that prove how weird and uneducated you really are:

Second paragraph: The Boston Convention and Exhibition Center, opened just seven years ago, is so short of exhibit space and hotel rooms, the consultant said, that officials need to consider a mammoth taxpayer-funded expansion.

So you are basically making the case for a new convention center and a CC hotel. Good job.

He blamed the economic downturn — which, he said, his firm could not have foreseen — for the financial trouble at some halls. Moreover, performance figures reported by convention centers, Kaatz said, do not account for all the spending facilities bring to their local economies. For example, he said, Washington hotel numbers don’t include rooms booked outside of those reserved by event planners.

As for Minneapolis, Kaatz said, the center’s deficits are high because of out-of-control expenses, not lower-than-expected revenues.

Thomas Hazinski, the HVS consultant working in Boston, noted his firm’s findings have persuaded some communities to not pursue building projects, including Plano, Texas and Monterey, Calif. He too said the recession — not his firm’s research — are to blame for problems at hotels in Phoenix, Baltimore, and Austin.

While the recession has certainly hurt the convention center business, the industry’s leaders acknowledge their troubles were brewing before the economy fell.

Despite those findings four years ago, Convention Sports & Leisure and HVS have since issued studies for Dallas, Miami, New Orleans, Boston, San Antonio, and other cities that supported construction of new or bigger facilities.

In Boston, HVS’s preliminary finding is that a 1,000-room hotel near the convention center could trigger visitors to book 140,000 rooms from events at the seaport district facility. Massachusetts officials have said the hotel may need up to $200 million in public subsidies.

The consultants say the lack of hotel rooms near the center is a major drawback to luring conventions to Boston. Convention Sports also said Boston’s exhibit space of 516,000 square feet compares poorly with the more than 1 million square feet available at centers in New Orleans, Atlanta, Orlando, and Chicago.

[betts]

True that- have a hunch the MAPSIII bait and switch damms any future initiative.

Precisely. Ed campaigning on finishing MAPS as promised to the voters and then trying to kill the streetcar so he can use the money for something he wants is a classic example. Voters are very happy with MAPS as outlined. It's when you ignore the voters that you screw any future initiatives - not just MAPS. It's a great way to bring progress in OKC to a screeching halt.

[Bellaboo]

Edgar,

You are helping define just how GREAT Mick Cornett really is as the Mayor. Lots of bad exposure at this site though for Shadid.