OKC Mayor Race 2014

[krisb]

This word...it kills me. Maybe I'm just not into urban buzzwords like some are. To me, I think of "placemaking" and I think of stuff already in action via MAPS.

Infrastructure encompasses many things. Are you concerned with your water/sewer service? Storm drainage?

Crime is a touchy one, but one in which I don't believe is solved by more cops or better equipment. I think it has more to do with sociological issues, but that's for another forum and another thread.

Organized neighborhoods with the help of city leaders can make a difference in addressing all of these issues, even the sociological ones. Building community is what neighborhood associations and "placemaking" is all about. The difference is that MAPS 3 placemaking has been limited to downtown. Great cities are made up of great walkable neighborhoods. They become the urban fabric of the city (i.e. Western Avenue, Paseo, and the Plaza District).

[betts]

Downtown has desperately needed place making. You cannot even imagine what downtown was like pre-MAPS. A strong downtown makes a strong city. It is the glue that holds neighborhoods together. Now that we are getting our downtown to an acceptable place, with MAPS IV or other bond issues we can turn even more of our attention to neighborhoods. But it is also the responsibility of neighborhoods to ask for help, if they want it. Schools are a key core institution for neighborhoods and MAPS II was all about improving school infrastructure. The bond issue was to improve streets and add sidewalks, and MAPS III has sidewalk and trail improvements, senior centers and fairground improvements. It's not really been all about downtown since MAPS I.

[CaptDave]

krisb - please define "neighborhood" for us. I do not call the people who live next to me "adjacent property owners" - I call them my neighbors. Are the places north of Memorial Road less worthy of the "neighborhood" label? What about those places that people live along 178th? How about Western and 164th? Do they count? If Edgemere is a "neighborhood", then aren't Talavera or Fenwick or Quail Creek neighborhoods also? They will never see a streetcar in their neighborhood, but they supported MAPS3 because of the obvious good the program has done for our city. Yes they are definitely more suburban in design than traditional "neighborhoods" that you and many Shadid supporters hold up as the ideal. But those people pay OKC taxes (a fairly high amount too) yet from the tone of your comments they are somehow less worthy of being served by the city in which they reside.

I think we can and should encourage better development patterns in the city, but pitting one set of OKC citizens against another based on where they live is counterproductive and should be beneath anyone who wants to be mayor. So far, one candidate has failed this simple test.

[soonerguru]

I'm thankful that there is "placemaking" going on in my neighborhood, and I credit Councilman McAtee and Mayor Cornett. We are getting new streets, sidewalks, place markers, lighting, pedestrian crossings, and decorative intersections.

Shadid acts like nothing happened until he decided to get involved in civic issues two years ago. Wrong. Just look at the Plaza and other areas that were improved long before he even cast a vote on a city issue.

[CaptDave]

I'm thankful that there is "placemaking" going on in my neighborhood, and I credit Councilman McAtee and Mayor Cornett. We are getting new streets, sidewalks, place markers, lighting, pedestrian crossings, and decorative intersections.

Shadid acts like nothing happened until he decided to get involved in civic issues two years ago. Wrong. Just look at the Plaza and other areas that were improved long before he even cast a vote on a city issue.

MAPS started the transformation of OKC long before the light shone down from above on I-40 too.

[krisb]

Downtown has desperately needed place making. You cannot even imagine what downtown was like pre-MAPS. A strong downtown makes a strong city. It is the glue that holds neighborhoods together. Now that we are getting our downtown to an acceptable place, with MAPS IV or other bond issues we can turn even more of our attention to neighborhoods. But it is also the responsibility of neighborhoods to ask for help, if they want it. Schools are a key core institution for neighborhoods and MAPS II was all about improving school infrastructure. The bond issue was to improve streets and add sidewalks, and MAPS III has sidewalk and trail improvements, senior centers and fairground improvements. It's not really been all about downtown since MAPS I.

Agreed. There are also Bond projects every 7-10 years that are greater than the MAPS budgets. Great cities have urban infrastructure beginning downtown and extending outward. Downtown DC is great, but there is so much character and vitality in the neighborhoods of Dupont Circle, Adams Morgan, Georgetown, Foggy Bottom, etc. The same thing can happen here if we apply the principles of urban design throughout the city.

[krisb]

krisb - please define "neighborhood" for us. I do not call the people who live next to me "adjacent property owners" - I call them my neighbors. Are the places north of Memorial Road less worthy of the "neighborhood" label? What about those places that people live along 178th? How about Western and 164th? Do they count? If Edgemere is a "neighborhood", then aren't Talavera or Fenwick or Quail Creek neighborhoods also? They will never see a streetcar in their neighborhood, but they supported MAPS3 because of the obvious good the program has done for our city. Yes they are definitely more suburban in design than traditional "neighborhoods" that you and many Shadid supporters hold up as the ideal. But those people pay OKC taxes (a fairly high amount too) yet from the tone of your comments they are somehow less worthy of being served by the city in which they reside.

I think we can and should encourage better development patterns in the city, but pitting one set of OKC citizens against another based on where they live is counterproductive and should be beneath anyone who wants to be mayor. So far, one candidate has failed this simple test.

To answer your question, neighborhoods are neighborhoods and they all deserve basic amenities like sidewalks and walkable destinations. Most of the newer neighborhoods already have sidewalks that's why I tend to focus on the older ones. My own neighborhood is comprised of 1950s homes outside of the designated "urban core." I don't think walkability should be reserved for new subdivisions or historic/urban neighborhoods only. Shadid lives in a very suburban area along NW Expressway, but you can bet he would love to retrofit that area with a walkable "town center" or the like.

[krisb]

I'm thankful that there is "placemaking" going on in my neighborhood, and I credit Councilman McAtee and Mayor Cornett. We are getting new streets, sidewalks, place markers, lighting, pedestrian crossings, and decorative intersections.

Shadid acts like nothing happened until he decided to get involved in civic issues two years ago. Wrong. Just look at the Plaza and other areas that were improved long before he even cast a vote on a city issue.

We must live near each other because I am super excited about the Windsor District's emergence. You are right, much credit is due to those individuals along with very strong and active neighborhood associations and the Windsor Area Business Group.

[soonerguru]

Interesting column by Steve on Shadid's refusal to state public opposition to the streetcar until today, and a trip down memory lane of the positions he took as a candidate. The ads speak for themselves.

Flashback: Ed Shadid on MAPS 3, Streetcars | News OK

[CaptDave]

To answer your question, neighborhoods are neighborhoods and they all deserve basic amenities like sidewalks and walkable destinations. Most of the newer neighborhoods already have sidewalks that's why I tend to focus on the older ones. My own neighborhood is comprised of 1950s homes outside of the designated "urban core." I don't think walkability should be reserved for new subdivisions or historic/urban neighborhoods only. Shadid lives in a very suburban area along NW Expressway, but you can bet he would love to retrofit that area with a walkable "town center" or the like.

OK - fair enough. I wanted to make the point that the issues you seem to care most about are nearly universal throughout OKC. The newer developments are required to have sidewalks but they are often an island because the arterial streets often do not have continuous sidewalks. There is a school within sight our my home but my child rode a bus to get there because there were no sidewalks along a busy street. So I think we may share many goals but differ in the route to achieving those goals.

[Bellaboo]

Interesting column by Steve on Shadid's refusal to state public opposition to the streetcar until today, and a trip down memory lane of the positions he took as a candidate. The ads speak for themselves.

Flashback: Ed Shadid on MAPS 3, Streetcars | News OK

WOW - Everything Ed was dogging Charlie Swinton for................... He is doing now...... krisb, here's the proof.....

[LakeEffect]

Organized neighborhoods with the help of city leaders can make a difference in addressing all of these issues, even the sociological ones. Building community is what neighborhood associations and "placemaking" is all about. The difference is that MAPS 3 placemaking has been limited to downtown. Great cities are made up of great walkable neighborhoods. They become the urban fabric of the city (i.e. Western Avenue, Paseo, and the Plaza District).

So the sidewalks and trails portion is all downtown? What about the senior centers? To call this a downtown vs. neighborhood issue is misguided at best.

[krisb]

So the sidewalks and trails portion is all downtown? What about the senior centers? To call this a downtown vs. neighborhood issue is misguided at best.

Not saying downtown vs. neighborhoods. Just saying that placemaking is more than trails, sidewalks, and wellness centers. There must be destinations to walk to.

[Hutch]

Shadid acts like nothing happened until he decided to get involved in civic issues two years ago.

That attitude was on full display yesterday at the City Council meeting during the streetcar debate where he once again raised his ridiculous conspiracy theory about the streetcar route. His completely inaccurate view of the nature and history of the route, and his misunderstanding of how thinking about the route went from a hub and spoke concept prior to the MAPS 3 vote to a couplet design is due to the fact that his perception of reality begins when he joined Council and became a part of the discussion. He has almost total disregard for and disinterest in understanding the facts and complexities of the extensive public scoping efforts, technical reviews and decision-making processes that occurred prior to his election. It's NOT that the route selection process took place in a vacuum. It's that his reality of the facts with regard to the route selection process IS a vacuum as to anything that happened prior to his being elected. And it's NOT that many of us didn't make an enormous effort to try to educate him about the streetcar and help him to understand the history that existed before he was elected. It's that he didn't care to listen and decided that his distorted view of reality was the only valid one.

And now he wants to work together to make the streetcar and transit the best it can be. I'm sorry, but we don't need his kind of help. We're doing just fine without him.

[LakeEffect]

Not saying downtown vs. neighborhoods. Just saying that placemaking is more than trails, sidewalks, and wellness centers. There must be destinations to walk to.

Right. But Maps can't build restaurants, entertainment venues, stores, etc and neither can GO Bonds. They can, however, build the transportation infrastructure with which to get there.

Interesting fact - GO Bonds for sidewalks only are not considered a public utility by the state (namely an amenity) and thereby require a super majority (above 60% - not 66%, actually) in an election. Streets, bridges, drainage, public buildings, and parks only require simple majority (above 50%). Staff looked into that issue when preparing the 2007 GOB. That's definitely something that I personally think needs to be changed before the next GOB so that we can construct more sidewalks.

[PhiAlpha]

Not saying downtown vs. neighborhoods. Just saying that placemaking is more than trails, sidewalks, and wellness centers. There must be destinations to walk to.

Are wellness centers not destinations to walk to?

As far as this goes, again why is it the mayor's responsibility to oversee placemaking all over the city? It seems like more of a private development issue. Associations and city groups all over the city are taking up the job, whether that be the Plaza, Uptown, Windsor or where ever. It's those associations' jobs to put proposals together to get money from the city for street scaping, sidewalks, etc, if they want something to get done. Has Cornett or the city council ever said "absolutely no" to any requests by these areas? In the windsor area you mentioned, they are already adding sidewalks and streetscape improvements. I'm not sure what you think Ed is going to do, that Mick or the government under Mick hasn't done.

[mkjeeves]

Our city leaders back when had a vision for downtown. What's good for downtown is good for OKC! We do not have a similar vision and support with our leaders now, (and especially from the majority of posters on this board,) but instead, lots of pushback on moving forward with 95% of what makes up OKC, IE, retrofitting suburbia. What is offered here is "you fix it or get the developers to fix it."

That's not the history of maps or fixing it in OKC. We need that vision followed by leadership.

That may or may not have anything to do with Ed. It does apply to our current mayor. Where is his vision?

[PhiAlpha]

Our city leaders back when had a vision for downtown. What's good for downtown is good for OKC! We do not have a similar vision and support with our leaders now, (and especially from the majority of posters on this board,) but instead, lots of pushback on moving forward with 95% of what makes up OKC, IE, retrofitting suburbia. What is offered here is "you fix it or get the developers to fix it."

That's not the history of maps or fixing it in OKC. We need that vision followed by leadership.

That may or may not have anything to do with Ed. It does apply to our current mayor. Where is his vision?

You can see his vision with the current MAPS. What would you like to see added everywhere else that isn't being done now?

[warreng88]

Man, that is simply not true nor fair. I'm 100% for retrofitting suburbia. Who else here is in favor it?

What could/should we be doing in the suburban neighborhoods that we are not?

I have heard a lot of push back about the new park and why doesn't the city update and maintain the current neighborhood parks instead of building something new. Of course public safety has said time and time again that they need help, but that is whole different subject/thread.

MAPS 3 is going to provide miles and miles of sidewalks and trails, none of which are downtown.

I think the main thing people want to see is the streets fixed up, but a lot of that is being taken care of with the 2007 GO bond.

It seems like there is a disconnect with a lot of people who are against MAPS 3 thinking it is all for the rich and they are the ones that stand to benefit and that is just not true either.

[mkjeeves]

Man, that is simply not true nor fair. I'm 100% for retrofitting suburbia. Who else here is in favor it?

What could/should we be doing in the suburban neighborhoods that we are not?

If the shoe fits, sid, and I don't believe it does in your case. I'm not going to go look up the prior discussions and point fingers at specific people other than our leaders.

For the sake of argument, lets say everyone is for it including the mayor. He's our leader. Where has he, or anyone who represents the city, articulated the vision and plan for doing so ? If he or they have set out a clear vision there would be no discussion. There isn't a vision, much less any related leadership in that direction.

You can see his vision with the current MAPS. What would you like to see added everywhere else that isn't being done now?

For starters, you can read the whole thread at the first link or you can save yourself some grief and just read the other posts at the links following the first link.

http://www.okctalk.com/suburban-deve...-suburbia.html

http://www.okctalk.com/suburban-deve...tml#post659214


http://www.okctalk.com/suburban-deve...tml#post660277

http://www.okctalk.com/suburban-deve...tml#post660304

[betts]

Maps 3 collections end in 2017. So, rather than complaining, think of some specific projects that are feasible components of a MAPS IV. Contact your city councilor. When the discussion of MAPS projects or bond projects comes up, make sure he or she is aware of what consituents would like to see. Improving a city the size of this one requires citizen involvement, because no one person, mayor or councilor, can be aware of all the needs and issues of the city on a micro scale.

Personally, I would like to see a permanent 1/2 cent tax for transit. I realize that the word permanent is a scary one, but if we create a bigger, improved transit system, we will have to be able to continue to fund O&M and expansion. If we can get Norman, Edmond and Midwest City to do the same, then we have the opportunity to make massive changes in the way people move around this city. As far as other projects go, I feel like downtown has a lot of nice things. I'd like to see the Native American Cultural Center completed, but that's probably not a MAPS appropriate item. The river is still a fairly blank slate, and perhaps moving improvements to the south side of the river would jump start development there. Otherwise, I'd definitely vote for projects that are for outlying areas, but I don't want to see transit ignored. That truly is for all of us.

[mkjeeves]

Maps 3 collections end in 2017. So, rather than complaining, think of some specific projects that are feasible components of a MAPS IV. Contact your city councilor. When the discussion of MAPS projects or bond projects comes up, make sure he or she is aware of what consituents would like to see. Improving a city the size of this one requires citizen involvement, because no one person, mayor or councilor, can be aware of all the needs and issues of the city on a micro scale.

Personally, I would like to see a permanent 1/2 cent tax for transit. I realize that the word permanent is a scary one, but if we create a bigger, improved transit system, we will have to be able to continue to fund O&M and expansion. If we can get Norman, Edmond and Midwest City to do the same, then we have the opportunity to make massive changes in the way people move around this city. As far as other projects go, I feel like downtown has a lot of nice things. I'd like to see the Native American Cultural Center completed, but that's probably not a MAPS appropriate item. The river is still a fairly blank slate, and perhaps moving improvements to the south side of the river would jump start development there. Otherwise, I'd definitely vote for projects that are for outlying areas, but I don't want to see transit ignored. That truly is for all of us.

Condescending much? The topic was/is leadership at the mayor level.

[betts]

Our mayor is a city councilor with a vote. He's done a pretty amazing job of getting himself invited to speak at meetings, interviewed on television and quoted in magazine articles. He certainly helped get the streetcar on the list of MAPS projects, but that's the only one I was very aware of. He has helped raise Oklahoma City's national image to an almost unbelievable extent. He got me my Thunder. I'm very happy with his leadership because I'm happy with the way the city is progressing. Do I think he's the best mayor possible? Probably not. Would I rather have a mayor with a vision? It depends on whether he says it or does it. And then, whether I agree with it.

I'm not condescending. You have a thin skin, I have observed, or if I'm misinterpreting, as is common on the internet, you have a chip on your shoulder. But, I was raised to do something myself if I wanted it done and/or done right. We have very responsive city councilors (for the most part). I first got to know the mayor when I wrote him with ideas I had and he actually wrote me back and we began a dialogue. I have found our city councilors to be very proactive (again, for the most part) for their constituents. But, if they don't know what their constituents want, it's hard to advocate for it. So, my advice is, if you want something, ask for it. Don't expect anyone to read your mind. Or read your post.

[kevinpate]

...
It is hard to imagine how Ed would handle the national stage. The same way he has handled the local stage?

Not hard to imagine at all. The state and national stages are chock full of my way or the highway talking heads that haven't much to offer, but offer it up loud and proud all the same.

[Bellaboo]

Our city leaders back when had a vision for downtown. What's good for downtown is good for OKC! We do not have a similar vision and support with our leaders now, (and especially from the majority of posters on this board,) but instead, lots of pushback on moving forward with 95% of what makes up OKC, IE, retrofitting suburbia. What is offered here is "you fix it or get the developers to fix it."

That's not the history of maps or fixing it in OKC. We need that vision followed by leadership.

That may or may not have anything to do with Ed. It does apply to our current mayor. Where is his vision?

Streetcars, trails, sidewalks, wellness centers, convention center, white water facility, etc........