Religion is Bovine Scat

[PennyQuilts]

HVAC is a preacher. You should get your credentials and get a tax break.

[HVAC Instructor]

HVAC is a preacher. You should get your credentials and get a tax break.

I love you too, hon!

[PennyQuilts]

My husband received his credentials online and enjoys trotting out his business card refering to him as "Reverand." (he doesn't claim a tax break). I just roll my eyes. I am afraid my dogs will start acting like preacher's kids. And I know I am not cut out to be a preacher's wife.

[HVAC Instructor]

My husband received his credentials online and enjoys trotting out his business card refering to him as "Reverand." (he doesn't claim a tax break). I just roll my eyes. I am afraid my dogs will start acting like preacher's kids. And I know I am not cut out to be a preacher's wife.

Seriously? What demonination?

[PennyQuilts]

Seriously? What demonination?

Universal Life Church Monastary. It is organized in Seattle. He enjoys whipping out his card, the heathen.

[PennyQuilts]

Here is the link. Universal Life Church Monastery

It is absurd. And he treats it as a joke. Which if you met him, you would totally get.

[HVAC Instructor]

Here is the link. Universal Life Church Monastery

It is absurd. And he treats it as a joke. Which if you met him, you would totally get.

Kinda like this one Welcome to The Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic

[RedDirt717]

We don't get Christians, Muslims or the other Abrahamic religions either.

No ****?.....

We do? Just looked this morning when I got dressed...no t-shirts like you describe in my closet. Checked the cars, and just as I recalled, not Darwin stickers.

I do enjoy controversy and spirited discussion. Got nothing to do with being Agnostic though.

The point is you totally get your jollies from pissing off Christians. You posted this video with the incendiary thread title to get a reaction. I'm not sure that's even debatable.

You dont start out a "intelligent" discussion with an offensive video. That's not right, that, in itself is intolerant. It's no different than southern baptists telling atheists they're going to hell. It's to get a reaction, they claim to have a superior knowledge of the universe. You're doing the same from a completely different angle.

Sorry, but I love you my brother. There is no hate in my heart. I will question your beliefs and misguided assumptions, but hate...not me.

Well right on, I love you too. At least we can agree that love is/should be the universal.

I believe your assumptions are also misguided but I'm not of the ilk to argue about it for too long. I just moved back from DC man, I'm tired of arguing. I show my faith through my love for others. My lifestyle is rough around the edges but I accept that, I drink more often then I should, I have a filthy mouth but I choose to believe not out of some kind of guilt or fear but out of the internal spiritual knowledge that I'm not alone.

Do tell. What do I worship? Worship is a word I have rejected since I was a child. Just can't grasp that concept.

wor⋅ship
  /ˈwɜrʃɪp/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [wur-ship] verb, -shiped, -ship⋅ing or (especially British) -shipped, -ship⋅:reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

"Worship" to me equates to "fear of the unknown". Perhaps unthinking humans are easily misled into worshipping something because they fear their own unknown origin. I believe an extremely intelligent and educated human grasped this fear and took the ancient superstitions to the next level and invented religion in order to control the masses through fear.

This couldn't be more false. I'm not scared of God.

Like anything else in the history of man, people have been using fear to control people. Religion is no different. It was used to control and kill many many people. But so did atheist empires.

In fact our history shows that Faithless empires killed and are still killing millions upon millions of people.

The French revolution had a campaign of dechristianisation. The reason? Well their reasoning is that much different than anything you've talked about on here. That religion is intolerant and basically a cancer to the world. So what to do about that? Well get rid of it of course. The enactment of a law on October 21, 1793 making all nonjuring priests and all persons who harboured them liable to death on sight.

How tolerant and peaceful.

You must have read a lot of Marx in college because your reasoning is very similar to his. He believed religion is a tool utilized by the ruling classes whereby the masses can briefly relieve their suffering via the act of experiencing religious emotions. It is in the interest of the ruling classes to instill in the masses the religious conviction that their current suffering will lead to eventual happiness.

The USSR athiest policies, totalitarian rule and their death camps for political and religious prisoners killed, at the low end, 20 million people and some estimate upwards of 60 millions. Making the atheist inspired holocaust look like a picnic. The government nationalized all church property, executed clergy, prohibited the publication of most religious material and persecuted members of religious groups. The result of this was the death of 21 million Russian Orthodox Christians by the Soviet government, not including torture or other religious ethnicities killed.

Pol Pot killed 2 million people in his cambodian genocides. A self attributed athiest, he also tried to eradicate Buddhism and Islam.

In Albania after their independence from the Ottoman Empire practiced state atheism as well tortured and killed thousands of state clerics after nationalizing all religious property.

They do? Pretty broad brush you are painting with here.

Do I? What are your thoughts on environmentalism?

So, acknowledging that we humans live in an eco system with a circle of life in which all living beings play a part is worship? Not dumping pollution into our waters is worship? Understanding that this planet has a carrying capacity is worship?

No, that is common sense, my friend. Science and common sense.

I could go into a diatribe about 8 pages long on the similarities of environmentalism and religion. They're almost non distinguishable in practice.

Is this common sense? Or Worship based on the definition I've provided (since you clearly changed the definition to suit your personal beliefs).

BERKELEY / Getting naked to save oak grove

Seems you have a large chunk of lumber you are laboring with my friend.

I could say the same about you for even posting such an offensive video that causes people anger and pain. Faith is very personal to many people, I consider my relationship with God to be very intimate, personal and inspiring bringing out a good nature in me I dont believe I'd have otherwise.

When you post things like this it offends people, like if I somehow tried to convince you that you that your love for your family isn't real. I can't see your love, it isn't something I can distinguish with any of my 5 senses, it only exists in the confounds on your mind. But even you believe in love, you told me so about half a diatribe ago. Clearly something bothers you, clearly you want to get a reaction otherwise you wouldn't have posted this thread in the first place. Seems your carrying your own "chunk of lumber".

"Not tied down by the dogmatic riules of religion". I like that. That means that religion and religious people are evolving slowly into reality, rejecting the ridiculous tennants of religion. My hope is that religion will eventually evolve itself out of existence. What a wonderful world it will be to not have humans fighting and killing one another over which "god" is the greatest, or who a particular god loves more.

Nah, there is a stark difference between religious people and spiritual people. I'm not evolving into an agnostic, quite the contrary when my faith is tested it only becomes stronger. Let me tell you a story:

When my little brother died, when I was a toddler my parents were clearly in a serious grieving process. Newly spiritual Christians leaving the dogmatic and ritualistic confines of religious Catholicism my mother began knew just knew she had to find a bible and read psalm 73. No real explanation just jumped up in the hospital and grabbed a bible. See, my brothers name was Israel and he died from heart failure. If you're interested you can read the chapter. I'm sure you'll think it's just an incredible coincidence anyway.

Faith will always be here because God will always be here. People will use it, like anything else to exploit and control but it doesn't make God a bad guy.

Like I said, there are certain things that are questionable, but I choose to concentrate on the undeniable. I've lost nothing along the way, I will live a better life, I will live a more fulfilled life, and I will not pretend that I believe that I'm somehow alone in the universe. I've lost nothing, and if I'm right gained everything.

Keep questioning and you will eventually become Agnostic. That is why you choose not to question. It is actually quite freeing to discard those old fear based beliefs called "faith".

Oh I'll keep questioning, that's just my personality. I'm very much into Christian apologetics and faith. I question everything, from my political believes to my spiritual conviction. There was a time that I tried to not believe. Told people for about a year I didn't. I was lying to myself and I never felt more trapped and lonely.

Tolerance to you and many Christians and Muslims is that people like me should not be tolerated. That, my friend is religious Totalitarianism, and that makes you intolerant, not me.

Painting with a pretty wide brush there are we? Since when do you start speaking for me? When did I once say that people like you should not be tolerated? I never did. Someone is getting a bit defensive I see.

Agonostics and Atheists tolerate religion, and question it. The questioning of the sacred cow of religion is what religious people are intolerant of.

I've found nothing you've written on here to be tolerant of religion, I have seen the questioning part. You clearly dont understand the very people you disagree with. I'd make a trip out to lifechurch, or peoples church maybe hit up a mosque. I have. Things in the life of Christ followers aren't as dogmatic as you mind think. There truly is a revolution of love in the church right now, you're to stubborn to believe it exists.

[PennyQuilts]

Red Dirt, I think you should win the prize for the best post ever written - well done.

[DaveSkater]

No kiddin ECO!
+1

Very nice Red Dirt!

[HVAC Instructor]

Reminder: The video addressed religion, not spirituality.

Well right on, I love you too. At least we can agree that love is/should be the universal.

You could have stopped right there, and we would have no further disagreement.

In fact our history shows that Faithless empires killed and are still killing millions upon millions of people.

True, however Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

People were killed in communist nations for a lot of different reasons. Some were communists who disagreed with those in power and were killed because of that. Some were anti-communists opposed the government and were killed for that. Some were simply in the way or inconvenient and were killed for that. These are political disagreements that people were being killed over, not murder in the name of atheism.

Approximately 809,000,000 humans have been killed in religious wars compared to 270,000,000 in non-religious wars throughout known world history. Both unnecessary and indicative of a sad state of human affairs.

But remember, Islam is the greatest current menace on the planet right now. Just wait until the nukes inevitably become available to the Jihadists. The Russians have had thousands of them almost as long as we have, yet we have never been attacked by Russia.

When you post things like this it offends people, like if I somehow tried to convince you that you that your love for your family isn't real. I can't see your love, it isn't something I can distinguish with any of my 5 senses, it only exists in the confounds on your mind. But even you believe in love, you told me so about half a diatribe ago.

This is the crux of the debate, and where all those words you just wrote fall apart. I simply laugh and dismiss this statement without argument, as anyone with rock solid knowledge would.

But, you wrote a multi-page diatribe in defense of your own beliefs, and in attack of mine. What does that really say about your knowledge of yourself?

[Double Edge]

Two things...

There are plenty of members of mainstream religions who treat those memberships as absurd and a joke. Evidence suggests that includes some of the clergy.

There is quite a difference between the Universal Church of Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic and the Universal Life Church.


The Universal Life Church
The Universal Life Church Monastery strongly believes in the rights of all people from all faiths to practice their religious beliefs, regardless of what those beliefs are, be they Christian, Jew, Gentile, Agnostic, Atheist, Buddhist, Shinto, Pagan, Wiccan, Druid or even Dignity Catholics; so long as they do not infringe upon the rights of others and are within the law of the land and one’s consciousness.

We ordain ministers, priests, rabbis and clergy worldwide who are totally non-religious or even anti-religious. This may seem contradictory, but we are looking to change the negative perceptions of religion, faith and spirituality, by encouraging people to take control, stand up and speak truth to power by fearlessly stating their personal religious beliefs. The ULC Monastery seeks to fulfill the spiritual needs of as many different groups as we can by offering a wide variety of services, ordinations, information and networking opportunities. We teach that the communication and fellowship of our ministers is equal to the once a week sacramonious fellowship in some of our most segregated and elitist churches. We further proclaim that "We are all Children of the same Universe" and as such we each have a right to be here. Thus said, that is the way that your God and Mother Nature planned it.

Articles of Faith of the UCTAA:

Aim 1

We could be bigger than Scientology... if only we weren't so darned apathetic.

Aim 2[2]

To disseminate the concept of Apathetic Agnosticism as widely as possible. Being apathetic on the question of a Supreme Being’s existence does not imply being apathetic about the concept.

Statement of Faith

1. The existence of a Supreme Being is unknown and unknowable.

To believe in the existence of a god is an act of faith. To believe in the nonexistence of a god is likewise an act of faith. There is no evidence that there is a Supreme Being nor is there evidence there is not a Supreme Being. Faith is not knowledge. We can only state with assurance that we do not know.

2. If there is a Supreme Being, then that being appears to act as if apathetic to events in our universe.

All events in our Universe, including its beginning[1], can be explained with or without the existence of a Supreme Being. Thus, if there is indeed a God, then that god has had no more impact than no god at all. To all appearances, any purported Supreme Being is indifferent to our Universe and to its inhabitants.

3. We are apathetic to the existence or nonexistence of a Supreme Being.

If there is a God, and that God does not appear to care, then there is no reason to concern ourselves with whether or not a Supreme Being exists, nor should we have any interest in satisfying the purported needs of that Supreme Being. However, our apathy to the question of God's existence does not necessarily mean we are apathetic about promoting agnosticism.

[RedDirt717]

You could have stopped right there, and we would have no further disagreement.

I had a lot more to say.

True, however Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

You're wrong pretty much right off the bat, because Atheism is, in fact a belief system that people kill for. I actually gave examples of the torture and execution of clerics in Albania. They weren't killed in the name of Atheism, they were killed in the name of a new world order, the idea that if there were no religious people arguing that there would be peace. Solution? Kill them off. It's happened many times throughout history.

People were killed in communist nations for a lot of different reasons. Some were communists who disagreed with those in power and were killed because of that. Some were anti-communists opposed the government and were killed for that. Some were simply in the way or inconvenient and were killed for that. These are political disagreements that people were being killed over, not murder in the name of atheism.

The problem your running into here is...people WERE killed because of their religion. They WERE killed and tortured because of their faith. You can beat around the bush all you want but those are the facts. You do know that "political disagreements" many times are attributed to personal faith. There is no denying that 10 to 20 million Orthodox Christians were killed, yes many if not most for their faith. It's much easier to control the masses in a communist society when they have no religious conviction and work directly for the state. They called it "gosateizm" (sp?).

Approximately 809,000,000 humans have been killed in religious wars compared to 270,000,000 in non-religious wars throughout known world history. Both unnecessary and indicatative of a sad state of human affairs.

Holy **** man....I'd LOVE to know where you got your numbers from. Considering there are just a shade over 6.5 billion people on the planet RIGHT NOW...unless we're working on some phantom human life "inflation", where a person killed in the dark ages is worth 10 dead people today (because there are more people), I HIGHLY doubt that in terms of today's world population that 1/7 of that represent the amount of people killed in the name of God or god.

I actually tried to find where you got that information and fed through some scholarly journals. Found some information an actual reputable source:

According to University of Hawaii, the total number killed in all of human history is
estimated to be about 284,638,000. Of that number, 151,491,000 were killed during the
past 100 years. The single largest killer in all of human history is, by far, atheistic
Communism with a total of 110,000,000.

I'll agree with you that regardless it is a "sad state of human affairs", but saying that religion kills people is like saying it's my pencils fault for misspelling words. People would have found a way to kill each other with or without religion. History of atheist empires shows us that.

But remember, Islam is the greatest current menace on the planet right now. Just wait until the nukes inevitably become available to the Jihadists. The Russians have had thousands of them almost as long as we have, yet we have never been attacked by Russia.

We were never attacked by Russia because of mutually assured destruction. It's a pretty basic premise in the new age of nuclear weapons. The reason they didn't attack us is both countries would be giant glass craters and the world would fall into nuclear winter, most people on earth would probably die. Everyone knows this. The greatest single menace is not Islam, it's radical jihadist Islam. They're a very small, very loud, and very annoying part of the Muslim faith. They're also very dangerous, which is why what we're doing in the middle east is so important and commend our current president for staying the course regardless of what he said about them 2 years ago.

This is the crux of the debate, and where all those words you just wrote fall apart. I simply laugh and dismiss this statement without argument, as anyone with rock solid knowledge would.

Hahaha, I've been in debates and arguments my entire life. Time in and time out when someone can't think of a way to respond, because they can't, they come up with some variation of what you just said. That's hilarious.

They always say, "*uncomfortable laugh* There is no point in even arguing that because anyone with...um...you know common sense knows that's not right"

Basically an admission of defeat. I was simply explaining the personal nature of someones relationship with their God. You seem to be the one getting defensive now.

But, you wrote a multi-page diatribe in defense of your own beliefs, and in attack of mine.

I wrote a multi-page diatribe "explaining" my beliefs.

Find me one time I attacked your beliefs? You wont because I didn't. Wait...a minute... The guy that posted the hateful video, the guy that started this whole mess by trying to get under some peoples skin, is somehow trying to act like the victim now? Odd.

What does that really say about your knowledge of yourself?

My knowledge of myself? I'm pretty self aware, I'm open minded, and fairly well educated, I drink too much whiskey, and leave the toilet seat up, I'm sometimes very vain and often I make things far more complicated than they should be, I'm a deep thinker, I read a LOT of books, and take pride in my vast knowledge about the world, politics, philosophy, economics, and OU football. I have a celebrity crush on Kelli Pickler and I dont know why, I work out too much, and eat weird food, I have this aching desire to leave this world a better place then how I found it and I like this life with a devout faith in a creator, living by the greatest commandment:

Matthew 22:37

‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Cheers.

[HVAC Instructor]

Holy **** man....I'd LOVE to know where you got your numbers from.

Here's one source. Twentieth Century Atlas - Historical Body Count

Lots of estimates regardless of the source, yours or mine, as well as the intent of the people gathering the data. You want to attempt to prove that heathens killed more religious people than people were killed in the name of religion. This is a recent argument by religious persons interested in deflecting legitimate critcism of religions desire to control the masses. Highly intelligent leaders, who are likely Atheists at heart, have used religion against other humans since the dawn of time it seems. These men know that religion's and their "gods" are myths, just like the Greek Mythology. These men also know that people fear the unknown, and look to religion for answers. Religious leaders, like the pope know this too, and use this knowledge to manipulate millions into behaving in a certain manner, and instilling fear to even dare to question religion. That, my friend is why you are so vehemetly arguing your point.

If you had a spiritual knowing, as opposed to "faith" and "belief", you would not even be arguing with me in the first place. You argue because the simple posting of a comedian in a video has "offended" you. And it has offended you because you, deep in your being, you have doubts about what you believe, and you fear admitting these doubts because you fear the wrath of your god for daring to doubt him.

[PennyQuilts]

IMatthew 22:37

‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Cheers.

I am in the presence of genius.

[RedDirt717]

Here's one source. Twentieth Century Atlas - Historical Body Count

Did you post that link hoping I wouldn't actually go to it?

Not one figure on there shows nearly a billion people axed by religion. In fact I did a search and there were only two times the word religion even showed up in the entire study. I wanted to see a specific reference, but it looks like you were just making up really big numbers.

Lots of estimates regardless of the source, yours or mine, as well as the intent of the people gathering the data. You want to attempt to prove that heathens killed more religious people than people were killed in the name of religion. This is a recent argument by religious persons interested in deflecting legitimate critcism of religions desire to control the masses. Highly intelligent leaders, who are likely Atheists at heart, have used religion against other humans since the dawn of time it seems. These men know that religion's and their "gods" are myths, just like the Greek Mythology. These men also know that people fear the unknown, and look to religion for answers.

I'm not sure why you even went into all this, but, ok.

Religious leaders, like the pope know this too, and use this knowledge to manipulate millions into behaving in a certain manner, and instilling fear to even dare to question religion. That, my friend is why you are so vehemetly arguing your point.

Again, something you wont be able to back up because you really dont know what you're talking about. You're really really reaching for straws when you try to attack my character by assuming I'm "vehemetly" arguing my point to defend religious leaders or atrocities committed in the name of a god. It's really pretty comical watching you stumble around arguments trying to regain any sort of credibility. I'm arguing my point to control people? I'm agruing my point because religious leaders like the pope know this too?

....wow

If you had a spiritual knowing, as opposed to "faith" and "belief", you would not even be arguing with me in the first place. You argue because the simple posting of a comedian in a video has "offended" you.

As I have already stated I concentrate almost all inclusively on the spiritual. Now you're accusing me of knowing nothing of spiritual and only concentrating on "faith" and "belief"? Faith and Belief are spiritual, just because you've got egg on your face doesn't mean you need to go off and try to develop entirely new theories on the way spirituality works.

And it has offended you because you, deep in your being, you have doubts about what you believe, and you fear admitting these doubts because you fear the wrath of your god for daring to doubt him.

No I argued not out of fear, I argued because agnostics annoy me and, yes, I was offended by it. You KNEW that people would be offended by it, that's why you posted it. There are better ways to argue than such hateful ways to begin conversation. I've already stated that I do have doubts, that's not new. I've already admitted that, so the entire premise that I "fear admitting these doubts because (I) fear the wrath of my God" is completely moot.

This is the reaction you get when you try and insult and demean a very personal and special relationship with people. It has nothing to do with fear and everything to do with putting you in your place for being disrespectful and mean hearted. You claim it's all about "religion", but you're also attacking spirituality when you make it quite obvious that you think people that believe in a god at all are misinformed, ignorant, slaves and just not as smart as you.

I obviously disagree.

[HVAC Instructor]

I argued because agnostics annoy me and, yes, I was offended by it. You KNEW that people would be offended by it, that's why you posted it.

Knowing this, you still responded? Don't you realize you are giving me exactly what you "know" I want?

It has nothing to do with fear and everything to do with putting you in your place for being disrespectful and mean hearted.

Your fear and anger are paplable.

I have only love in my heart, and a deep curiosity of human behavior in my mind.

And...What exactly is my place?

Do reflect on your anger and fear, and you will be amazed at what you learn...

[PennyQuilts]

I'm not picking up on any fear or anger from RedDirt. He is flicking a fly.

[Luke]

I swear I heard this on Star Wars...

Your fear and anger are paplable.

I have only love in my heart, and a deep curiosity of human behavior in my mind.

And...What exactly is my place?

Do reflect on your anger and fear, and you will be amazed at what you learn...

[DaveSkater]

LOL Luke......

It is as it was foretold!

[RedDirt717]

Knowing this, you still responded? Don't you realize you are giving me exactly what you "know" I want?

I'm pretty positive you wanted some retarded right wing nut jobs to have fun with for a little while to prove a point. Not me.

Your fear and anger are paplable.

I have only love in my heart, and a deep curiosity of human behavior in my mind.

And...What exactly is my place?

Do reflect on your anger and fear, and you will be amazed at what you learn...

Hahaha, the guy that posts a video titled, "Religion is bull****" is playing the "stop picking on me" card? Like you were the vanguard to an open minded discussion about faith and religion by starting a thread called "Religion is bovine scat". Ridiculous.

I'm not angry at all. I'm not fearful of anything. You keep insisting I am, and even used the word "Palpable", as in you can taste my anger, you can smell it in the air, must be some heavy stuff you're picking up on over there that no one else seems to get? Yet, there is no real proof of any anger or fear. You just believe, without any real proof. Sounds a lot like religion. Sure you don't believe in God?

Just move along now.

[HVAC Instructor]

I'm pretty positive you wanted some retardedright wing nut jobs to have fun with for a little while to prove a point. Not me.

Oh, yes, you! LMAO! How many pages did you type in an attempt to make whatever point you were trying to make?

If you only could partially comtemplate the entertainment you have provided....

Hahaha, the guy that posts a video titled, "Religion is bull****" is playing the "stop picking on me" card? Like you were the vanguard to an open minded discussion about faith and religion by starting a thread called "Religion is bovine scat". Ridiculous.

Oh no, by all means, keep picking on me.

I'm not angry at all. I'm not fearful of anything.

Are you trying to convince me? Or yourself?

Just move along now.

That's your call. I have no idea if there is a god or not. I accept that I don't know and that I may never know. Don't care.

You and other "believers" OTOH, go on and on and on trying to convince yourselves and everyone else that there actually is a god. Sorry, but the fact is that you do not know. Just admit it and move on. I even had a preacher admit to me once that he truly did not "know", but chose to believe. I respect him for that admission.

Indeed, I knew some would object to the George Carlin video because it makes them uncomfortable, but you my friend have been a rare treat. Most folks just take the video for what it is, a comedy skit making fun of the ridiculous tennants of religion, have a chuckle, and move on.

To each his own.

May the Farce be with you!