Breaking news: new Greater OKC Chamber HQ

[Kerry]

Given what we've been through limiting billboards on the crosstown expressway, it seems ironic to me that we would now equate more visual clutter with progress.

Would everyone think this would be just as cool if it were on North May Avenue?

I think this is the difference between an automobile dominated environment and a pedistrian environment.

[jbrown84]

Given what we've been through limiting billboards on the crosstown expressway, it seems ironic to me that we would now equate more visual clutter with progress.

Well produced, high quality advertisments for the city hardly equal tacky billboards for Night Trips and 1800-TO SELL HOMES.

[edcrunk]

Well produced, high quality advertisments for the city hardly equal tacky billboards for Night Trips

oh no... those billboards are ok.

[betts]

I'm fine with the video board, since it appears to be facing Broadway. I wouldn't want it shining in my windows.

[bornhere]

Well produced, high quality advertisments for the city...

...are still advertisements, as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't matter to me if they're for the city or Night Trips or Pepto-Bismol. The fewer of them I see the better I like it.

[metro]

Have you been to Times Square? We need more of this informational, HD LED billboards to promote events going on in the city, not sleezy businesses. These are pedestrian info boards as others pointed out, not highway-type billboards.

[edcrunk]

but if the sleazy businesses wanted to promote in a high definition, high tech sort of way....


that's still ok by me.

[Rover]

Hate to tell you all that haven't ever been to NYCity or not recently, but Times Square is a bustling place and pretty much cleaned up of the massive sleeze it was. The big LED screens are totally legit not only in NYC but in London, Tokyo, etc, in most progressive and modern cities. They add to the visual excitement and colorfulness of the urban experience. And, they can even be informative, but usually just entertaining.

[edcrunk]

Hate to tell you all that haven't ever been to NYCity or not recently, but Times Square is a bustling place and pretty much cleaned up of the massive sleeze it was. The big LED screens are totally legit not only in NYC but in London, Tokyo, etc, in most progressive and modern cities. They add to the visual excitement and colorfulness of the urban experience. And, they can even be informative, but usually just entertaining.

i've never been to nyc (and am not too interested in going either.... unless for a dj gig) but i've been to tokyo and love all the visual stimuli!! if you like times square... you'll love shibuya crossings. which is like a times square on steroids (now imagine that being said by a guy who does breakfast cereal commercials or something only sold on tv).

[metro]

Oklahoma City planner objects to chamber building plan
By Steve Lackmeyer
Business Writer

A staff report issued this week to the Downtown Design Review Committee recommends they deny approval of renderings for a proposed new headquarters for the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber.

report, authored by assistant city planner Scottye Montgomery, acknowledges the triangular site at NW 4 and Broadway is "oddly configured, which may make this (design) regulation difficult to meet.”

Montgomery also advised committee members the project attempts to preserve sight lines to the neighboring E.K. Gaylord Building (former home of The Oklahoman), which she said is a valid consideration but is not one that is recognized by the downtown zoning ordinance.

Montgomery also wrote the building's 240-foot-high glass curtain walls conflict with the requirements that downtown building facades include "vertical breaks.” She advised a proposed digital sign at the entrance also violates city zoning.

"The project is not in context with the surrounding area in that it does not provide any unifying elements such as similar building materials, fenestration patterns, vertical character or siting,” Montgomery wrote.


‘Very unique downtown site'
Roy Williams, chamber president, declined an interview but released the following statement:

"On Thursday, September 18, Oklahoma City's Downtown Design Review Committee will consider the Chamber's proposed development at NW 4 and Broadway. We believe in the merits of our proposal in creating a dynamic new public space on this very unique downtown site.

"The city staff makes recommendations to the committee, based on whether the proposal strictly meets the criteria of the downtown design ordinance. The staff also provides alternatives to the committee. It is important to note that their recommendations do not reflect a decision of the committee. We look forward to making a formal presentation of the project at Thursday's meeting.”


Setback is main issue
The chamber headquarters is the first new Central Business District construction to be considered by the Downtown Design Review Committee since it was formed almost two years ago.

"The only big issue we have is the setback,” Montgomery said. "That's something we can't modify or exempt. The ordinance was written with the downtown fabric in mind — that a building be at street level and pushed to the streets so that there is interaction between pedestrians and buildings. It's supposed to be typical of our downtown area.”

[westsidesooner]

Ok, I'm not an architect and to be honest with you I had to look up "fenestration" so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Just in case anyone else doesn't know what it means

fen·es·tra·tion (fn-strshn)
n.
1. The design and placement of windows in a building.
2. An opening in the surface of a structure, as in a membrane

I think the design of the building was excellent. I saw this article in the paper at 6a.m. this morning and it didn't make much sense. I'll try to pick apart the article and maybe some of you can help me understand the parts I was too tired to understand or to ignorant to concieve.

1....."Montgomery also wrote the building's 240-foot-high glass curtain walls conflict with the requirements that downtown building facades include "vertical breaks.” She advised a proposed digital sign at the entrance also violates city zoning.

Since when was this building 240' tall? The plans I saw were of a 3 maybe 4 story building. I'm guessing she meant "horizontal" And the digital sign....can't we change the zoning there....doesn't the new Ford center design also include a video board?

2....."vertical breaks" ? how is this differnet than any other glass building ala leadership sq. which I believe is in downtown.

3..."The project is not in context with the surrounding area in that it does not provide any unifying elements such as similar building materials, fenestration patterns, vertical character or siting,” Montgomery wrote.

If this measure of context were upheld wouldn't all new buildings in OKC look like something from the 1930's. Again does leadership sq look anything like FNB. Siting is going to be a problem with this property, I think they did well with the design and placement.

4.....The chamber headquarters is the first new Central Business District construction to be considered by the Downtown Design Review Committee since it was formed almost two years ago.

Nothing to pick apart here, but you'd think after two years they might actually want to approve something

5....."The only big issue we have is the setback,” Montgomery said. "That's something we can't modify or exempt. The ordinance was written with the downtown fabric in mind — that a building be at street level and pushed to the streets so that there is interaction between pedestrians and buildings. It's supposed to be typical of our downtown area.”

How is this different than Devons plan as far as setback? Do we really want a downtown where every building is humping the street? After all this is on the eastern edge of downtown, I'd think a little leeway would be ok there. This building is supposed to represent and impress the visitors to OKC. I'd personally rather walk through a garden setting with benches and a video board then be dropped off at the curb in front of the door.

Are trees and park space so bad? Its not like we have an overabundance of park space and green trees downtown. I think the setback actually improves the "site line" to the other buildings and gives a breath of fresh air to the east side of the cbd. If we build every thing to be "typical" of our downtown wouldn't it all look the same?

I know this is a grumpy rant, but I really like the look of the design I've seen and don't understand why it has to conform with everything ever built.

[Kerry]

Amen westsidesooner. If conforming to existing building materials, not allowing for park space, and requiring vertical breaks is how dowtown is going to be governed then the new Devon building has a 0% chance of ever being approved. The rules need to be changed - and quick.

[jbrown84]

I mostly agree, although I don't think it should have a circle drive in front, which it apparently does.

[bombermwc]

I pretty much diasgree with everything he denied. I think it's great that it doesn't match everything else because nothing that matches is ever going to be built there. That kind of crap is what keeps development from happening. Someone needs to get off their high horse and stop flexing their power muscles. If nothing else, we get the city council to change the ordiances or get variances to the thing gets built. Screw Montgomery.

[jbrown84]

What if we created a traffic circle there similar to NYC's Columbus Circle, that allowed for better traffic flow between 3rd, 4th, Gaylord, & Broadway?

[soonerguru]

Wow! I can't believe someone at the city has the nerve to take on the establishment. He deserves kudos for that alone. That said, doesn't he know how things work in this town? I'll be shocked if he's employed there six months from now.

[jbrown84]

I think it's a she.

[westsidesooner]

I think it's a she.

I think so too, not that it matters to me. But am I the only one who didn't know what fenestration was?

[shane453]

She isn't the only person who is upset about the Chamber's design. So was Anthony McDermid, among others, and I do respect his opinion a great deal on urban development.

The issue was that there were other, more urban proposals that the Chamber did not move forward with. Those proposals would have allowed for some mixed use development with the Chamber HQ, hidden parking, straightening of EK Gaylord and Broadway, reconnection of 3rd Street, still a streetsize plaza on Broadway, and an additional lot that would remain vacant for a whole other development.

The Chamber's design is great, cutting edge and really stunning, but now that I've seen the other alternative site plan (which is in the Gazette from last week if you're interested) I would rather see them go with that. I now feel that the Chamber's building would look great on the new lowrise office corridor of Memorial Avenue.

[jbrown84]

Shane do you think you could scan that image of the other design from the Gazette? I forgot to pick one up and now there's a new issue out.

[Kerry]

I don't think you can blame the person that reviewed the plans to ensure they meet current zoning requirements. The requirements need to be changed, not ignored. BTW - a large traffic circle would be cool. An Arch or a fountain in the middle would be nice also.

[jbrown84]

[CuatrodeMayo]

Ahhh....Columbus square.

And yes. Scottye is a she.

[Pete]

I'm glad we have mechanisms in place to provide standards, hold developers/owners accountable, and to raise questions where appropriate.

At least it opens a dialog and encourages input... Hopefully there is also a process to resolve such concerns in such a way that development isn't unduly delayed.

[bombermwc]

Memorial...no. Why would you isolate a CoC way up on the northside? It would be out of the way for everyone BUT northsiders. Downtown is central to all sides.

I agree we need zoning and ordinances to make sure we don't have any crazy crap. But they are aruging things that don't make sense. Broadway is NOT the core. Automobile Alley is NOT a CBD. We're not talking skyscrapers on this road, we're talking less than 5 stories anywhere. And considering the CoC is partly responsible for attracing so much of the business we have, one would think the city would be proactive in supporting them. We have a very large and successful CoC compared to cities much larger than ours. It's a testament to what they do...so we shoudln't be making life more difficult for them than it needs to be.