New Tulsa Interstate (US-412)

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ where has that been published? First time hearing about anything official regarding the number.

[BG918]

That is the long-term plan, but I-49 is the priority for Arkansas DOT to finish first. Problem is the I-49 segment south of Fort Smith is VERY expensive to finish and the terrain east of Springdale for 412 to connect into Jonesboro is not an easier/cheaper to build through. I-40 needs an alternative route to and Memphis needs another bridge across the Mississippi. It would make sense to have a northern route around Memphis across the Mississippi that would hook into the Jonesboro extension that connects to NWA > Tulsa > I-35. Could even bring down a connection from the I-55/57/69 mess in Southwest Missouri/West Kentucky and hook into a new east-west interstate that could be a reliever from traffic coming from Ohio River Valley as well. Problem is always funding though. Likely will never happen in the next 20-30 years unless Congress ever starts taking infrastructure more seriously.

Interesting, that definitely opens up and provides more connections to NWA and NE OK. I can see why the region is pushing for the east-west interstate since it currently lacks one.

[UrbanistPoke]

^^^ where has that been published? First time hearing about anything official regarding the number.

Not published anywhere - I'm aware of it through personal conversations with chamber, mayors office staff, etc. It's not really a secret what they want and USDOT/FHWA typically accepts requests like that, doesn't mean that's what they'll approve. The idea on I-42 is that is aligned with 412 (just no 1 anymore) and would be the easiest 'rebranding' of the corridor. I personally would rather have a different number that's not as close to I-44. Like someone else said I-50 would be great but would likely never happen unfortunately. It's certainly too short of a segment to warrant something like I-50 too.

[Scott5114]

There will never be an I-50 because of it would be located to close to US 50 which violates their numbering requiements.

Interstate 41/US 41, Interstate 74/US 74, etc.

The only state that has both US-412 and US-50 is Missouri, and that's just because 412 crosses the Bootheel for a couple dozen miles. That part of 412 isn't part of the proposed Interstate, anyway.

[Mesta Parker]

I-45 in Texas has a major interstate designation and is only about 300 miles long, so don’t rule out the I-50 name based on length.

[Just the facts]

A fair number of two-digit interstates are under 200 miles in length, with quite a few under 100 miles.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...state_Highways

[Swake]

ODOT is conducting a public meeting on 6/6 in downtown Tulsa on the 412 upgrade.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/communit...6c1abc3b1.html

Project docs will be posted here on 6/7:
http://odot.org/US412interstateDesignationStudy

[Plutonic Panda]

Reminder: public meeting is today at 4:30 in Tulsa:

Cyntergy Community Space, 1st Floor
810 S. Cincinnati Avenue
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74119

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/programs-a.../20230606.html

[Plutonic Panda]

According to another poster from AARoads they spoke with an ODOT who said that this project will include an interchange at US-69 that will be designed to be compatible with a future I-45 extension. That’s pretty exciting.

[Plutonic Panda]

Edit: I meant US-75.

They will likely redo the US-169 interchange as well and hopefully it’s a complete five stack.

[rte66man]

Edit: I meant US-75.

They will likely redo the US-169 interchange as well and hopefully it’s a complete five stack.

Why? There are no frontage roads to deal with so you only need 4 levels for a full interchange

[Plutonic Panda]

Why? There are no frontage roads to deal with so you only need 4 levels for a full interchange

Ah true. I should’ve just said a fully directional interchange.

[Plutonic Panda]

Well sh!t I didn’t get my wishes. This road will be I-42.

Item 132: https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/...a-202309-r.pdf

IMG_6648.jpeg

[jompster]

I couldn't help but to also notice the OKC loop renumbering in Item 131. Yikes lol.

[Plutonic Panda]

Here is some, more useful information, if anyone wants to check out project cost, and start dates for some of the interchanges: https://oklahoma.gov/odot/progress-a...signation.html

[BG918]

Arkansas will be the biggest challenge to getting this project completed

Most of the 170 miles of the highway in Oklahoma are already built to interstate standards, with four-lane divided highway and controlled access. Of the 20 miles in Arkansas, the only portion built to interstate standards is the completed section of the U.S. 412 Springdale Northern Bypass -- designated Arkansas 612 -- between I-49 and Arkansas 112. Work on the segment between Arkansas 112 and U.S. 412 in Tontitown is expected to begin soon.

A major early finding is that it's probably not feasible for the segment of U.S. 412 that passes through Siloam Springs to be converted to interstate standards, and alternative routes will have to be considered, likely a bypass.

The issue is at-grade intersections are not allowed on interstate highways, and there are 51 such intersections along U.S. 412 in the Siloam Springs study area alone that would have to be grade separated, removed, rerouted and/or connected by frontage roads in order to use the current alignment.

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/...tandard-faces/

[Plutonic Panda]

Yes it’s well know Siloam Springs is going to need a bypass. There’s also the potential for alignment hiccups in West Siloam Springs in Oklahoma to connect with ODOTs. There is zero chance the 412 section the SP gets upgraded. It’s already a packed 6 lane road with tons of businesses and homes alongside it. It’ll likely be a northern bypass if I had to guess. Won’t be cheap either.

[BG918]

Yes it’s well know Siloam Springs is going to need a bypass. There’s also the potential for alignment hiccups in West Siloam Springs in Oklahoma to connect with ODOTs. There is zero chance the 412 section the SP gets upgraded. It’s already a packed 6 lane road with tons of businesses and homes alongside it. It’ll likely be a northern bypass if I had to guess. Won’t be cheap either.

I drove from Tulsa to Bentonville last weekend. What should be just under a 2 hour drive took 30 extra minutes because of 412 traffic in Siloam Springs and Springdale and gridlock along I-49. Next time I go I may take I-44 to Hwy 20/72 and come into town from the north.

[Plutonic Panda]

I drove from Tulsa to Bentonville last weekend. What should be just under a 2 hour drive took 30 extra minutes because of 412 traffic in Siloam Springs and Springdale and gridlock along I-49. Next time I go I may take I-44 to Hwy 20/72 and come into town from the north.

Not a bad route. Sometimes going a bit further actually saves time. I’m surprised it’s taken this long just to get a bypass. I’m anxious to see ARDOTs proposal and timeline. They going to need to come up with one quick to assist ODOT in their plans for the section through West Siloam Springs.

[Snowman]

... I’m anxious to see ARDOTs proposal and timeline. They going to need to come up with one quick to assist ODOT in their plans for the section through West Siloam Springs.

ARDOTs seems to have too many interstate plans for their budget. They just recently finished connecting I-49 to Missouri after a surprising amount of delays, they still have at least 150 of miles to connect I-49 from Ft Smith to Texarkana. There is this project, which is probably at least 20 miles to the Oklahoma boarder. Then they also have around 100 miles of I-69, with another few dozen so a spur will connect that to Little Rock.

Given ODOT/OTA seem to be going forward on this, it potentially is the most impact and lowest overall cost for them. However with I-49 just being finished in NW Arkansas, it may be difficult getting political will from other areas to have another major project to the same area. Though it seems like it is probably better to think of it as north of Siloam Springs than through it, as the spur they have of I-49 has been referenced as the planned destination, which seems positioned well to serve both for a bypass of Siloam Springs and possibly also improving the connection to their regional airport.

I-49 seems to have some limits of impact since Ft Smith to Texarkana already has an interstate option, though I-49 would cut out a bit over an hour of travel and improve highway connections for a several more cities & counties in SW Arkansas.

I-69 seems the hardest to ever get funds, as Shreveport to Memphis already have a freeway connection around the same distance, and the regions it travels between those junctions are pretty small cities. I-69 for Arkansas specifically has risks from neither Louisiana nor Mississippi seem to being doing anything on their planed sections either.

[Plutonic Panda]

I doubt we’re gonna see I-69 completed in our lifetimes. I’m gonna be surprised if they can even complete I-49. Depending on how strong the environmentalist come out against it, they might have to offer for building one of the longest road tunnels in the entire country. Unless the government comes out with an initiative to build interstates like they did before I don’t think Arkansas is going to get a lot of what they want completed. They also have I-57 under their belt as well.

I think a Springdale bypass has a decent chance of being constructed within the next decade or two.

Arkansas DOT does have a lot on their plate.

[Plutonic Panda]

“It's hard to imagine some of this when you think it's gonna be 20 to 30 years until all this is done. Just think about how Interstate 49 came to be," said Parker. "Sure, it's going to take a long time, but you have to start somewhere.”

- https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index....een#msg2877947

[Plutonic Panda]

There’s also a spur north of Tonitown it can and likely will tie into. ArDOT already has plans to redo that interchange at I-49. I’d be willing to bet they find a way to expedite this project.

[Plutonic Panda]

Here’s the link for that interchange: https://www.ardot.gov/wp-content/upl...0621Design.pdf

[Swake]

ARDOTs seems to have too many interstate plans for their budget. They just recently finished connecting I-49 to Missouri after a surprising amount of delays, they still have at least 150 of miles to connect I-49 from Ft Smith to Texarkana. There is this project, which is probably at least 20 miles to the Oklahoma boarder. Then they also have around 100 miles of I-69, with another few dozen so a spur will connect that to Little Rock.

Given ODOT/OTA seem to be going forward on this, it potentially is the most impact and lowest overall cost for them. However with I-49 just being finished in NW Arkansas, it may be difficult getting political will from other areas to have another major project to the same area. Though it seems like it is probably better to think of it as north of Siloam Springs than through it, as the spur they have of I-49 has been referenced as the planned destination, which seems positioned well to serve both for a bypass of Siloam Springs and possibly also improving the connection to their regional airport.

It can also be argued that NW Arkansas is badly underserved with interstate highways. NW Arkansas now has almost 600k people and is the growth engine of the whole state. Sometime in the next 10-16 years NW Arkansas will pass Little Rock as the states largest metro. They NEED the this highway, badly. Going east/west there is a nightmare.