OKCPS Banned Land Run

[dankrutka]

Jerald Walker wrote a piece about the difficulties of teaching Land Runs in schools called, "The Difficulty of Celebrating an Invasion." It is chapter 2 here: http://www.amazon.com/Oklahoma-Had-N.../dp/080612945X

I haven't read the article in a solid decade, but it might be worth checking out if you're interested in the topic. This book is probably at a lot of the local libraries.

[jerrywall]

If you've read this thread I think you'd see that no one is really saying that.

Really?

[ZYX2]

Really?

Really. We've been discussing how teaching the Land Run is improving/could improve. You made an incorrect analogy to a much different and only somewhat related situation.

[Just the facts]

The point is that we don't lie about or mythologize history for children of any age.

I often talk to my pre-service teachers about appropriate ways to teach Columbus Day that doesn't ignore the cruelty, murder, rape, and eventual genocide by the Spanish to the Arawak/Taino people, but accurately deals with the significance of Columbus' voyage AND deals with the human rights atrocities that followed.

Which mostly turned out to be lies by the Anglican Church disseminated in European publications and public lectures to discredit the spread of Catholicism at the time. Sometime when we think we see the big picture, there turns out to be a an even bigger picture we don't see. History is a series of events all building on or reacting to previous events. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Just sayin....

[Jim Kyle]

When studying history, we must always remember that the history books were written by the victors, and consequently almost always present a one-sided view of the actual facts. Not until many years later, if ever, do the vanquished get an equal voice.

Which raises a question that, to me, seems supreme: Who decides which account is accurate?

[RadicalModerate]

In the midst of all this "Educational Chaos" yesterday, I was sort of glad that "Flip's Italian Enclave" survived all the battles and the storms.
I'm not sure which side quadrant or fraction of the "NativeAmerican"/"SoonerBorderCrosser"/"LawEnforcimater" side of the equation that puts me in . . . yet, somehow . . . the whole "LandRush(theft) thing should be put to rest" . . . "Sooner" rather than "Later"?

One thing I do know for sure: I'm wrong and someone will argue with that.

(thank you, Mr. Kyle. sincerely)

[OKCisOK4me]

I had a blast during mine. My wagon fell apart and my "family" was the last to stake a claim.

Just because it's fun doesn't mean it should be continued. That's a really strange logic.

....and just because a few adults don't think it shold be taught doesn't mean it should be removed from the curriculum.

Good job Indian kids. I'm sure your great great grandparents are having a pow wow in heaven. This is just stupid IMHO. I'm going to protest Red Earth now because us white folk don't believe in that crap. It never hurt them one bit.... <----sarcasm for those of you that can't read between the lines.

Asinine.

[RadicalModerate]

Which mostly turned out to be lies by the Anglican Church disseminated in European publications and public lectures to discredit the spread of Catholicism at the time. Sometime when we think we see the big picture, there turns out to be a an even bigger picture we don't see. History is a series of events all building on or reacting to previous events. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Just sayin....

Hold up thar a second, amigo . . .
Neither the Roman nor Anglican Church ever lied to anyone.
Only Henry VIII did. (at the time, he thought, "What is all this, 'it's good to be king' stuff about?" =)
Some Episcopalians might even agree?
(jest sayin' . . .)
(good to have ya' back . . . for real)

[RadicalModerate]

....and just because a few adults don't think it shold be taught doesn't mean it should be removed from the curriculum.

Of course it should be removed from the curriculum.
Attempting to text the correct spelling of "curriculum"--especially regarding The Land Run--caused carpal tunnel and traffic accidents. Didn't it? (please don't answer that. thanks, in advance. =)

[RadicalModerate]

When studying history, we must always remember that the history books were written by the victors, and consequently almost always present a one-sided view of the actual facts. Not until many years later, if ever, do the vanquished get an equal voice.

Which raises a question that, to me, seems supreme: Who decides which account is accurate?

I suppose, based upon recent observations, that it is either Mike Morgan or The New Weather Girl on Channel XYX . ..?

How about Charter Schools With Steaks to Claim the Stolen Land?
Sorry . . . I meant stakes.
Which, I've heard has nothing to do with vampires, zombies or extra-terrestials. =)

[RadicalModerate]

With apologies: Here is the outline of an old story/myth/joke that is sort of on-topic:
A guy (or gal) sees a sign that says "No Trespassing."
He (or she) crosses the fence.
The Trespasser is confronted by the Landowner.
The Landowner says: "What are you doing on my land."
The Trespasser says: "What makes this your land?"
The Landowner says: "My father gave it to me."
The Trespasser says: "And who gave it to him?"
The Landowner says: "His father."
The Trespasser says: "And where did his father get it?"
The Landowner says: "He fought for it."
The Trespasser says: " OK (no reference to "Oklahoma, simply an exercise in old American Oklahoman "Zen" or something like it, related to the Invasion of 1889, etcs).: "I'll fight you for it."

Let us hope that the victory goes to the best of all that . . .
(I can almost hear Woody Guthrie, plunkin' on his guitar in a boxcar and singin' something about "Land Ownership" (not counting the native inhabitants)

oops, almost forgot: "hey, you kids, play on my yard as much as you want, and when you're done mow it. =)

[RadicalModerate]

Jerald Walker wrote a piece about the difficulties of teaching Land Runs in schools called, "The Difficulty of Celebrating an Invasion." It is chapter 2 here: Amazon.com: An Oklahoma I Had Never Seen Before: Alternative Views of Oklahoma History (9780806129457): Davis D. Joyce: Books

I haven't read the article in a solid decade, but it might be worth checking out if you're interested in the topic. This book is probably at a lot of the local libraries.

Yup. It B a Kwandry. For sure. Thanks for the reminder!
I'd be "outraged" . . . but I'm not.

[RadicalModerate]

....and just because a few adults don't think it shold be taught doesn't mean it should be removed from the curriculum.

Good job Indian kids. I'm sure your great great grandparents are having a pow wow in heaven. This is just stupid IMHO. I'm going to protest Red Earth now because us white folk don't believe in that crap. It never hurt them one bit.... <----sarcasm for those of you that can't read between the lines.

Asinine.

The word "asinine" isn't used nearly enough.
In this context, it is nearly perfect (imho)

What's that other word that was even closer to the truth . . .
(dang. I fergit. . . . yet, somehow it is even more telling . . .)

[Just the facts]

When studying history, we must always remember that the history books were written by the victors, and consequently almost always present a one-sided view of the actual facts. Not until many years later, if ever, do the vanquished get an equal voice.

Which raises a question that, to me, seems supreme: Who decides which account is accurate?

And that right there is why it is so important to win - be it on the battlefield or in a curriculum-review meeting.

[ZYX2]

....and just because a few adults don't think it shold be taught doesn't mean it should be removed from the curriculum.

Good job Indian kids. I'm sure your great great grandparents are having a pow wow in heaven. This is just stupid IMHO. I'm going to protest Red Earth now because us white folk don't believe in that crap. It never hurt them one bit.... <----sarcasm for those of you that can't read between the lines.

Asinine.

Nobody here has said it should be removed from the curriculum. It should be taught so that it better represents actual history. It would be asinine to remove it from our curriculum, which is why neither I, nor anyone else is suggesting that.

[dankrutka]

Which mostly turned out to be lies by the Anglican Church disseminated in European publications and public lectures to discredit the spread of Catholicism at the time. Sometime when we think we see the big picture, there turns out to be a an even bigger picture we don't see. History is a series of events all building on or reacting to previous events. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Just sayin....

Do you have credible sources on this? I've read a lot of major historians and never seen this mentioned. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm going to need to see some evidence.

[dankrutka]

....and just because a few adults don't think it shold be taught doesn't mean it should be removed from the curriculum.

Good job Indian kids. I'm sure your great great grandparents are having a pow wow in heaven. This is just stupid IMHO. I'm going to protest Red Earth now because us white folk don't believe in that crap. It never hurt them one bit.... <----sarcasm for those of you that can't read between the lines.

Asinine.

This is a serious issue for a lot of Native people and just people in general. Your sarcasm is in poor taste.

[Tydude]

benfelder_okg: OKC school board votes 8-0 to dismiss Redskins mascot at Capitol Hill. This school is now in search of a new name.

[Just the facts]

Do you have credible sources on this? I've read a lot of major historians and never seen this mentioned. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm going to need to see some evidence.

I actually just read this a few days ago and if I can remember where I read it I will gladly pass it along. One thing I do know for certain though, propaganda wasn't invented in 1941. I am reading a historical novel about the history of Paris from Roman times to the mid-1960's so it might have been in there.

[dankrutka]

I actually just read this a few days ago and if I can remember where I read it I will gladly pass it along. One thing I do know for certain though, propaganda wasn't invented in 1941. I am reading a historical novel about the history of Paris from Roman times to the mid-1960's so it might have been in there.

I agree that propaganda wasn't invented yesterday, but historians are also aware of this fact. Pass along your source when you find it. I'm looking forward to reading something new on the topic.

[Just the facts]

but historians are also aware of this fact

The challenge is findig a historian that doesn't have an agenda or their own incomplete world-view. It is almost as if a person has to read 10 sources and then decide for themselves what is true. I had to do this myself after listening to Rush for 20 years. When I uncovered enough inconsistancies and half-truths I had to rethink my world-view so it fit the data (and not the other way around).

[Jim Kyle]

It is almost as if a person has to read 10 sources and then decide for themselves what is true.

No "almost" about it, and it applies to a lot more things than just history. Of course, one can also read 10 sources all of which agree with an original prejudice, and be no better off than before. Gotta pick sources that contradict each other as much as possible, and more than 10 if possible...

[Just the facts]

In a video I post quite often Howard Kunstler makes a point that when we have enough places not worth carrying about (because of their inability to create positive civic space) we will have a nation not worth caring about. Is it possible that time has come? Maybe we need an "I'm proud to be an American-American" campaign. In our rush to spread everyone out and destroy our civic life in the process we have created an environment that many people find unsatisfying at almost every level, so it is hard to argue against those who believe we should just give up, return the land to the previous inhabitants, and go back to Europe. We were given a great gift by our ancestors and frankly, we squandered it.

[OKCisOK4me]

Of course it should be removed from the curriculum.
Attempting to text the correct spelling of "curriculum"--especially regarding The Land Run--caused carpal tunnel and traffic accidents. Didn't it? (please don't answer that. thanks, in advance. =)

I wouldn't know. I don't text and drive. That was a valuable lesson I learned from my 4th grade Land Run experience in 1989--the 100 year anniversary.

[OKCisOK4me]

This is a serious issue for a lot of Native people and just people in general. Your sarcasm is in poor taste.

I'll ask my cousin about this who is an Arapaho descendant. If it's true then apparently I need to start hanging out with more Native Americans so I can feel this pain you speak about. Give me a break.