Religion is Bovine Scat

[mugofbeer]

HVAC - enjoyed the debate but I am done for the nite. See you next time.

[mmonroe]

Unfortunately sometimes people speak of stereotyped groups because well, thats how everyone else speaks about them. They're uneducated on the real facts and only believe what they hear. It's like you say the word pagan and a lot of people would instinctively think about the devil and spells and whatever. When in fact pagans are not like that at all. It's the same as when someone hears the word christian. They instantly think of the stereotyped generation of christians who are "older" and still educated with the thoughts of the 1940's and sometimes results in naming the same christian denomination as the hypocritical, backwards thinking, bible thumping, trouble makers.

I believe in God, and I believe in Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior but I don't like to tell people that. 2 reasons. They instantly think i'm going to try and press what I have between me and my God on them, and they also write me off as some fanatical. Of course, the same backwards thinking hypocrits who call themselves christians blame me for not sharing my relationship with God with others and they quote the Bible at me all day long, and sometimes even out of context saying that I should go out and tell all nations and everyone I meet. The problem is, people have gone about it the wrong way and people don't like to deal with that and it's increasingly becoming a put off from someone learning about christianity than bringing them to learn about christianity.

I agree that religion is man made.. who else but man to think of trying to place something as far beyond understand as a God into some sort of rules or reasons for being and trying to prove those instances with science and logical reasoning.

geez... i guess i could go on, but it's late and I leave for florida in 6 hours.

[mmonroe]

You twist just as much, no more, than you accuse me of doing. The discussion here is religion, not gays, not NAMBLA nor any of the other strawman arguments you just put forth in your verbose reply.

It's called comparing for better understanding. Sometimes it takes a comparative look at two different things and the way they coincide with one another to better understand the point that is being put across.

[PennyQuilts]

Bottom line, all religion is man made and has no basis in fact or historical or archeological evidence to back up the existence of a divine being, period.

Well, so we know your position. No need for further discussion on this thread.

[HVAC Instructor]

Well, so we know your position. No need for further discussion on this thread.

At least no further discussion from you counselor, jury and judge.

[PennyQuilts]

At least no further discussion from you counselor, jury and judge.

Look, why bother to keep trying to post on something that you are just going to attack if it doesn't jive with your personal belief system? It is a sure-fire way to quash discussion. You've turned this thread into your very own soapbox in the guise of open discussion. You've made it clear that you have no respect for Abrahamic religions but you are tolerant of others. Got it. We now know what you think/believe, which was apparently the purpose of this post all along.

[HVAC Instructor]

Look, why bother to keep trying to post on something that you are just going to attack if it doesn't jive with your personal belief system? It is a sure-fire way to quash discussion. You've turned this thread into your very own soapbox in the guise of open discussion. You've made it clear that you have no respect for Abrahamic religions but you are tolerant of others. Got it. We now know what you think/believe, which was apparently the purpose of this post all along.

ECO - It is you who is on the attack, following me from thread to thread, passing your judgement as if you are the high-queen of OKC Talk. Kind of feels like a case of forum stalking. You do not address the issue, you only attack the poster.

Give it a rest, or get on the topic and off of me personally please.

[PennyQuilts]

I haven't followed you - these are just topics that are interesting to me. Check it out and you will see that, historically, this has been an interest of mine.

You seem to want to be able to say whatever you want with no blow back. This isn't about attacking you, rather, you have been the one attacking those that disagree with your religious beliefs. All I said was that there seems to be no point in trying to have discussion because as soon as someone disagrees with you, their religion gets labeled BS (assuming they have a religion you don't support). My own religion, of course, is okay because it isn't Christian - apparently. But you don't have to be Christian to recognize intolerance when you see it.

[dismayed]

Often times I think far too much is made of the religious aspects of "religious wars." History shows us that at the core of even the Crusades was a tremendous amount of political intrigue and struggle for the control of nations, and for the most part such wars were really a battle over land more than anything else.

Even with Muslims today many of the same things are happening, the average person is being manipulated by the powerful who are twisting their religion in an attempt to gain power and land.

Make no mistake, this is an element of humanity that will always find a way to extort its power over men, whether it is through religion, the political process, the media or massive corporate interests. To blame religion itself for these problems is as illogical as blaming liberty.

[USG '60]

Often times I think far too much is made of the religious aspects of "religious wars." History shows us that at the core of even the Crusades was a tremendous amount of political intrigue and struggle for the control of nations, and for the most part such wars were really a battle over land more than anything else.

Even with Muslims today many of the same things are happening, the average person is being manipulated by the powerful who are twisting their religion in an attempt to gain power and land.

Make no mistake, this is an element of humanity that will always find a way to extort its power over men, whether it is through religion, the political process, the media or massive corporate interests. To blame religion itself for these problems is as illogical as blaming liberty.

Pretty solid thinking in my opinion.

[gmwise]

I think ECO is a depressed, bitter,older woman.
I think she wants to be a admin of the site and this shows why she must not be one.
Its ok to disagree with someone, but to descend to name calling by private messages, in a effort to provoke the same from others and then she claims innocence.
I dont buy she's practicing, in the area of law.Maybe in the area of gossip and backbiting

[PennyQuilts]

I think ECO is a depressed, bitter,older woman.
I think she wants to be a admin of the site and this shows why she must not be one.
Its ok to disagree with someone, but to descend to name calling by private messages, in a effort to provoke the same from others and then she claims innocence.
I dont buy she's practicing, in the area of law.Maybe in the area of gossip and backbiting

What the hell are you talking about? Private messages? What is with the personal attack? It is a bit early for drinking, buddy.

[Martin]

gmwise, stick to the topic. -M

[USG '60]

I think ECO is a depressed, bitter,older woman.
I think she wants to be a admin of the site and this shows why she must not be one.
Its ok to disagree with someone, but to descend to name calling by private messages, in a effort to provoke the same from others and then she claims innocence.
I dont buy she's practicing, in the area of law.Maybe in the area of gossip and backbiting

How crass can you get? This lost you a large chunk of what little credibility you had left. JEEEEZ.

[Psilocin]

George Carlin, one of my heroes. He will be missed. :<

On to the point!
Before I start, I would like to point out that I try my best to be have as little bias in discussions like this as possible. Unfortunately, my main bias is that I end up arguing against who I see as the more passionate side... Because being the Devil's advocate is so much fun.

Bottom line, all religion is man made and has no basis in fact or historical or archeological evidence to back up the existence of a divine being, period.

Eh?
You say that so assuredly. Most of the places described in the Bible are actual places and have been found to have historical importance. Along with this, there are practices in other religious/spiritual beliefs like meditation and yoga that have been shown to improve physical and psychological health. The Hindi psychological systems made several thousand years ago could also be called more accurate and helpful than Western psychological systems... But, then again, it's not difficult to be better than throwing emotionally numbing drugs at someone and saying "This will fix your problems!"

I'm gettin' off-topic.

There are also very interesting scientific discoveries that actually support the idea of a "One-ness." The point isn't that there's a "Divine being" but that "All" is divine and one. Simple reasoning can lead one to the idea that everything is one... By simply saying all contributes to the existence of all.

I don't believe that there is a God. I believe everything is God. It's funny and uncanny how the Horus/Jesus/Buddha archetypes always have the same message, even though they all supposedly lived in 2,000 year gaps to eachother, in different parts of the world. Of course, none of this can be proven by regular means. This is where it requires faith...

But doesn't anything require faith?
Yeah, I'm throwing out the "Is reality REALLY how you see it?" argument... because I'm a big, mean jerk and I rather have a stalemate than a loss. >=P

[Sun]

This thread is pretty dumb. Even though Im agnostic I respect this sub forum and the people who post on here even if we dont have the same beliefs. i'd advise you to do the same!

[gtinms]

To each his own.

I'm working on my post count, but HVAC, Psilocin, any Carlin fans, check out a coupla comics who share the same mindset as George. I can't post links, but on youtube, search for Doug Stanhope and Bill Hicks. I think you'll enjoy them.

-Jonathan

[DaveSkater]

I'm Presbyterian, not so much as because I think my form of religion is better than yours, but because my family was Presbyterian. Since I'm a caucasian male, and my heritage is "historically and politically abhorred", I can be a part of something that transcends my current generation.

I'm a scientifically reasoning person. I try to place logic with everything I learn. To logically and scientifically believe in God and Jesus Christ is a stretch. In that stretch is faith, and that faith is woven by my family members and ancestors that I love and hold or remember dearly.

So you don't believe. Good for you, and I couldn't care less. So I do believe. What's it to you? Why is it a point of contention?

To me, God is family. Jesus was the Son. He set the example for the rest of our lawless, murderous and sinning generations to come how to act. Was he made up by man? Perhaps. And then again perhaps not. None of us alive today know for sure. Will he come again? Perhaps, perhaps not. Again, none of us alive today know for sure. At the end of an awful day, or in the cold December of an old soul's days, if it brings peace and comfort for them, why on earth would you go out of your way to critisize him or her for believing?

I also believe in Reincarnation, of a sorts. At least there some psuedo science can be inferred. Such as hypnotic regressions and people speaking in languages they didn't know, about subjects they couldn't understand. (edgar casey) It can also exist with Christianity. (or other religions even)

I never could understand why someone had to put someone elses beliefs down. That's like questioning my lineage. Which is never advisable.

[HVAC Instructor]

I'm Presbyterian, not so much as because I think my form of religion is better than yours, but because my family was Presbyterian. Since I'm a caucasian male, and my heritage is "historically and politically abhorred", I can be a part of something that transcends my current generation.

I'm a scientifically reasoning person. I try to place logic with everything I learn. To logically and scientifically believe in God and Jesus Christ is a stretch. In that stretch is faith, and that faith is woven by my family members and ancestors that I love and hold or remember dearly.

So you don't believe. Good for you, and I couldn't care less. So I do believe. What's it to you? Why is it a point of contention?

To me, God is family. Jesus was the Son. He set the example for the rest of our lawless, murderous and sinning generations to come how to act. Was he made up by man? Perhaps. And then again perhaps not. None of us alive today know for sure. Will he come again? Perhaps, perhaps not. Again, none of us alive today know for sure. At the end of an awful day, or in the cold December of an old soul's days, if it brings peace and comfort for them, why on earth would you go out of your way to critisize him or her for believing?

I also believe in Reincarnation, of a sorts. At least there some psuedo science can be inferred. Such as hypnotic regressions and people speaking in languages they didn't know, about subjects they couldn't understand. (edgar casey) It can also exist with Christianity. (or other religions even)

I never could understand why someone had to put someone elses beliefs down. That's like questioning my lineage. Which is never advisable.

Hey Skater Dude, if you couldn't care less, why the verbose response?

Try and see the humor, watch the video and have a laugh.

If this little comedy skit shakes your faith to the point of some of the angry responses I have gotten from it, then perhaps "ye are of little faith".

[PennyQuilts]

It isn't about shaking faith. That is a really a bit condescending and denotes that you just don't get it. It is just that it is disrespectful to people. You are anti religion - don't even try to suggest you are neutral because you've been pretty hateful and mean spirited about it. We can't know why you feel this way and it doesn't really matter. But before you belittle someone about the strength of their faith, you might want to consider that you may not really understand where they are coming from. This anti religion mission you seem to be on seems pretty self indulgent. What do you care if other people have their faith? No one is making you believe that way. It may well be a comfort to them. You are entitled to your beliefs but belittling others seems sort of pointless and sad.

[HVAC Instructor]

It isn't about shaking faith. That is a really a bit condescending and denotes that you just don't get it. It is just that it is disrespectful to people. You are anti religion - don't even try to suggest you are neutral because you've been pretty hateful and mean spirited about it. We can't know why you feel this way and it doesn't really matter. But before you belittle someone about the strength of their faith, you might want to consider that you may not really understand where they are coming from. This anti religion mission you seem to be on seems pretty self indulgent. What do you care if other people have their faith? No one is making you believe that way. It may well be a comfort to them. You are entitled to your beliefs but belittling others seems sort of pointless and sad.

"Why are ye so angry and upset, oh ye of little faith"?

Lighten up and pray to the goddess of laughter for a sense of humor.

[ronronnie1]

^^^Amen Hallaluja to that!

[ronronnie1]

And another thing: I can only speak for myself, but as an athiest, I have no reverence for your god or your faith, not now - not ever. I'll fight for your right to believe in whatever old man up in the clouds that you wish, but don't expect me not to laugh at funny jokes about your (my opinion) delusions of faith. Get it? Got it? Good.

[PennyQuilts]

Athiests who go around trashing other people of faith are like an eleven year old boy racing around being a pest and demanding to be noticed. Okay, you got noticed. Happy? Or are you going to keep jabbing because it gets attention and is a substitute for your anger at the god you don't recognize? It is not that I don't have a sense of humor, but no one likes a bully. Insisting that just because someone doesn't see the spiritual world through your eyes is evidence that their faith is weak is presumptious and arrogant. But then again, arrogance is the hallmark of an atheist, anyway.

[DaveSkater]

People enjoy bashing people over the internet because they don't have the balls to do it in real life.

I suppose I'd probably relish in delight of pissing people off anonymously too if I were a coward. People should grow up and learn to respect their fellow man. And their chosen belief systems.

Oh, and I almost forgot: