Hail and roofing replacements and insurance

[u50254082]

Is there something rather nefarious (or maybe sketchy.. if that puts it mildly) about how roofing replacements work in OKC? I'm not going to point fingers because I suspect it is a systematic problem, but the topic has been on my mind lately.

On one hand, if you are paying for home insurance, and hail does indeed damage your shingles, then there is no reason you shouldn't use insurance. I don't think most people have $10-$20K just laying around waiting for the day a new roof is needed.

But I know dozens (literally) of people who seem to just get their roofs redone every few years and pay nothing out of pocket. If you aren't at least paying your deductible out of pocket then it means the roofing companies are making up for it somewhere else right?

And on a final note, my home insurance premiums seem to go up a few hundred each year, and I would bet a few bucks that it's largely in part because everyone is making claims for new roofs.

So what is the reasonable view here?

1. Might as well use the insurance and get a new roof?
2. Or since hail is a regular occurrence in OKC, maybe those roofs don't need to be replaced as often as the roof salesmen say.. and just save up for a new one every 20 years? Surely this is what people do in states that don't get hail?

[stile99]

I know of at least one company, based on personal experience, that gave one estimate to the homeowner, and another estimate to the insurance company. This company also didn't do some of the work that was specified on the original work order, claiming that they weren't aware it needed to be done, and therefore needed to be requoted. Again, different numbers were given to the homeowner and the insurance company. At some point in this process, the roofing company actually said "please don't talk to your insurance company, let us handle it".

[BBatesokc]

...

So what is the reasonable view here?

1. Might as well use the insurance and get a new roof?
2. Or since hail is a regular occurrence in OKC, maybe those roofs don't need to be replaced as often as the roof salesmen say.. and just save up for a new one every 20 years? Surely this is what people do in states that don't get hail?

In my experience, insurance companies don't just give away new roofs. In fact, I've been denied a claim in our old house and it dinged me because I was only allowed a couple of claims per year (even if they are denied). Sure, the unscrupulous roofers will tell everyone they need a new roof regardless of the truth. But, an adjuster is still going to show up and verify the claim.

In some cases the claim is denied, in some cases you get a new roof and in some cases you only get a partial roof.

If you file a claim and it's accepted, what's the problem? Obviously you paid your premium for a reason - why should you not exercise it? As for not paying out of pocket - the deductible is still satisfied, it's simply done so by the roofer (consider it a discount to you) because there is good profit in roofing. In our old house, we only had the roof replaced once in the 15 years we lived there.

Personally, I think when insurance companies offer full replacement, then you have the likelihood of fewer claims. If I know my roof is depreciating, then I'm more likely to diligently seek a claim. However, if I know my roof has no depreciation, then I may wait until the 2nd, 3rd or 4th hail storm before I file a claim.

People need to look closely at their roof coverage and make sure it matches their needs. Previously we had an old tiny house with very common shingles. Great all inclusive coverage was not a huge concern. However, our new home has a much steeper pitch and has a much higher end shingle that would not be easy to match in color. With that in mind, we made sure our coverage was for full replacement (no depreciation) and they either have to match the existing shingles if it's not a full replacement or replace the entire roof to make sure it matches.

A neighbor down the road was in for a huge shock when they realized they were only getting half a roof replaced and their shingles were no longer available. They would either have a mismatched roof or have to pay to replace the uncovered portion so it would all match - to the tune of $32,000.

I don't think insurers seeking roofs is the problem - I think roofing prices and sham roofers are the problem though.

[Colbafone]

Former Roofing company owner here. I'll make this short and sweet.

When you get on a roof it's OBVIOUS when a roof needs replaced. If it's a slow time of year, like December, it might be worth it to try to convince an Insurance Adjuster to purchase someone's roof. Trust me, a roofer can convince an adjuster to buy a roof. But during the crazy storm season, a good roofer will get on a roof, look around and tell you yes or no. It's not worth the time up there to fully investigate a roof and decide if it's close or not. If it's borderline after a hail storm, it's not getting purchased. Period.

As far as the actually price and payment of things, here's how that works. Let's say you have a 2% deductible or a $3k deductible. A good roofer is going to get on your roof and claim as much work as possible that needs to be done. Fascia, siding, windows, screens, shutters, fence, roof, gutters, gutter shield, wood work, painting. All of these things. The more things they get covered/purchased, the more OVERHEAD & PROFIT the insurance pays out. That is how the roofer makes money. Sure they cover your deductible, but AAA or whomever may pay out $8k in O&P. Now, the company has an obligation to do all of the work the are in contract to do. Some companies will get the insurance to pay for new gutters, new paint, and new window screens, but then only replace your roof and not do the rest of the contracted work and take the money. ALWAYS get a copy of the work to be done as per the insurance company as well as the roofing company. There are many well reputed roofing companies in OKC, so don't be too scared off. They mean well and will a lot of times give you big upgrades over what you have if they get enough O&P from your insurance. That's why it can be nice to have a roofer meet with your insurance adjuster when they come out.

Also, typically, when a big storm rolls through, your premiums are going up regardless of if you make a claim or not. So don't be afraid to make a claim in you know you'll need to.

[ctchandler]

About four years ago I had hail damage and it included problems with my roof, my garage door, several screens and some of the rough cedar and State Farm wrote a check for everything (based on their appraisers estimates) and also included $3,000 for a contractor. The total was about $23,000 and it paid for everything and I didn't spend a penny. I didn't go cheap on anything, contracted a good roofer (they had replaced my roof 15 years earlier). It worked the same way with my car, I went to a place in Edmond where they had rented a closed car dealers place and they wrote me a check for $6,800 while I was there. I went to a place recommended by State Farm and they did a great job and I didn't pay any deductible. And my rates didn't change. Actually, they went down 25 percent because I paid for class IV shingles.
C. T.

[BLJR]

Former Roofing company owner here. I'll make this short and sweet.

When you get on a roof it's OBVIOUS when a roof needs replaced. If it's a slow time of year, like December, it might be worth it to try to convince an Insurance Adjuster to purchase someone's roof. Trust me, a roofer can convince an adjuster to buy a roof. But during the crazy storm season, a good roofer will get on a roof, look around and tell you yes or no. It's not worth the time up there to fully investigate a roof and decide if it's close or not. If it's borderline after a hail storm, it's not getting purchased. Period.

As far as the actually price and payment of things, here's how that works. Let's say you have a 2% deductible or a $3k deductible. A good roofer is going to get on your roof and claim as much work as possible that needs to be done. Fascia, siding, windows, screens, shutters, fence, roof, gutters, gutter shield, wood work, painting. All of these things. The more things they get covered/purchased, the more OVERHEAD & PROFIT the insurance pays out. That is how the roofer makes money. Sure they cover your deductible, but AAA or whomever may pay out $8k in O&P. Now, the company has an obligation to do all of the work the are in contract to do. Some companies will get the insurance to pay for new gutters, new paint, and new window screens, but then only replace your roof and not do the rest of the contracted work and take the money. ALWAYS get a copy of the work to be done as per the insurance company as well as the roofing company. There are many well reputed roofing companies in OKC, so don't be too scared off. They mean well and will a lot of times give you big upgrades over what you have if they get enough O&P from your insurance. That's why it can be nice to have a roofer meet with your insurance adjuster when they come out.

Also, typically, when a big storm rolls through, your premiums are going up regardless of if you make a claim or not. So don't be afraid to make a claim in you know you'll need to.

Perfect summary. And if you contract your roofer to do any other item in addition to the roof as mentioned above (fascia, siding, screens, gutters, etc...), they then become your general contractor, and are allowed to mark up supplies an additional 10%, which is where alot of them will work with you on your deductible.

[rezman]

Here is an excerpt from a letter my insurance agent sent me back in May.




"Hail season is upon us I wanted to remind you that your homeowners policy does not have coverage for "marring"

This was an optional coverage that was not added when your policy was written.

What is marring? For insurance purposes it is to " disfigure, deface or scar"

Here is the policy exclusion:

"The policy does not provide coverage* for marring to: (1) all metal materials which are part of a separate structure or (2) metal guttering or downspouts or metal roof materials (including but not limited to roof surface covering, vent caps, turbines, piping, drip edge or flashing) on the dwelling caused by damage due to windstorm or hail. "

"However, if a distinct and demonstrable hole or opening is created in any of the metal materials in (1) or (2) above which was caused by windstorm or hail, the item would be covered subject to all other policy conditions and exclusions."

So what it means is if the above are dented, scraped, have the paint knocked off of them and still work then there is no coverage for them. So if you want pretty gutters, turbines etc; then you may want this coverage

The coverage runs about $150.00 per year depending on the size of the house if you are thinking about adding it and would like a quote, please give me a call."






We've been in our current house for almost 4 years, and the rates keep going up. We did a policy review to streamline our coverage and get the rates down a bit, then they come back trying to nickel and dime us. Not the first time. We will be shopping around for another company.

[BLJR]

Rezman, who is your insurance company? We have State Farm, I hate them, but the wife like them..... needless to say, we are with State Farm still.....

[rezman]

We had State Farm for years until we had our house fire and afterwards they dropped us like a hot potato since we had 2 storm claims within the previous 5 years. I had been told by others, including the fire marshal that State Farm is the best, and they really were pretty good right up to when they dumped us.

We're with Farmers now, and they were the only one's who would take us after the fire and rebuilding, but they're starting to rub me the wrong way.

[bombermwc]

Believe it or not, my insurance company (State Farm) is the one that pointed out to ME that I needed a new roof. It was about 5 years ago and we had two storms in the span of a week that dumped golf ball and larger size hail on our part of town. I didn't think much of it because i was still a relatively new homeowner at the time (only 3 years). It hadn't dawned on me to go up on the roof and check it out for myself. There were so many claims, they actually brought in adjusters from other states to help with the load. The lady that looked at my house was from Texas. She gave it the clear to be totally replaced and even pointed out my gutters were going to be on the claim. I hadn't noticed they looked like someone had machine gunned them from the inside, out!

What worked out nicely is that a cousin of mine also works part-time with a roofing company that his cousin owns. So we managed to get a fair deal on the whole thing and add full guttering instead of partial. They had some payment issues though that really pissed me off with the guttering firm. I emailed the guttering folks and one of their employees didn't realize i was on the chain and started cursing at me for no reason.....i wasn't even the one that was supposed to pay them since the roofing company coordinated that whole side of things and my funds went to them to pay the guttering firm. Needless to say we had a big "discussion" and worked it out since they wanted to put a lien on me...for something i shoudln't have even been involved in. Oh and by the way, i never got a bill, letter, phone call, etc. Thankfully i actually had someone come to my door one night and fill me in and gave me the contact info on the whole mess. But those a-holes definitely got an earful from me for their practices.

And i probably wont use my cousin again. Hard to yell at your family when they screw up and not make things weird.

[Teo9969]

As Colbafone said: Overhead and Profit.

Make sure you get it.

[easternobserver]

Something else to watch on older houses is that shingle manufacturers have recently altered their installation instructions to require that asphalt shingles be installed only on solid surface decking, This mirrors a change in the international residential code. In older houses with 1x8 decking, the boards have often shrunk to the point where the gaps make the decking no longer a solid surface. Many insurance companies are balking at paying for the decking replacement needed to comply with the code and validate the warranty on the shingles. In some cases, the insurers are only paying the cost of the decking replacement if the policy has additional coverage for law and ordinance compliance. Also, particularly on truss roofs, just nailing OSB on top of the old sheathing is a very bad idea and is not code compliant, since the truss system and possibly the foundation itself is not designed to handle that weight. The insurance commissioner attempted to get involved a few years ago with a bulletin, but it has largely been ignored by the insurance carriers.

[Colbafone]

Believe it or not, my insurance company (State Farm) is the one that pointed out to ME that I needed a new roof. It was about 5 years ago and we had two storms in the span of a week that dumped golf ball and larger size hail on our part of town. I didn't think much of it because i was still a relatively new homeowner at the time (only 3 years). It hadn't dawned on me to go up on the roof and check it out for myself. There were so many claims, they actually brought in adjusters from other states to help with the load. The lady that looked at my house was from Texas. She gave it the clear to be totally replaced and even pointed out my gutters were going to be on the claim. I hadn't noticed they looked like someone had machine gunned them from the inside, out!

What worked out nicely is that a cousin of mine also works part-time with a roofing company that his cousin owns. So we managed to get a fair deal on the whole thing and add full guttering instead of partial. They had some payment issues though that really pissed me off with the guttering firm. I emailed the guttering folks and one of their employees didn't realize i was on the chain and started cursing at me for no reason.....i wasn't even the one that was supposed to pay them since the roofing company coordinated that whole side of things and my funds went to them to pay the guttering firm. Needless to say we had a big "discussion" and worked it out since they wanted to put a lien on me...for something i shoudln't have even been involved in. Oh and by the way, i never got a bill, letter, phone call, etc. Thankfully i actually had someone come to my door one night and fill me in and gave me the contact info on the whole mess. But those a-holes definitely got an earful from me for their practices.

And i probably wont use my cousin again. Hard to yell at your family when they screw up and not make things weird.

If you are ever, EVER, paying to have your roof redone, as well as existing things being redone, you are being ripped off. Period. Under no circumstance should you ever pay your deductible or pay to fix things that are already covered by your insurance.

Now, it's one thing to pay for an upgrade on roofing materials, or for better windows or what have you, but again, the homeowner should never ever ever be out of pocket for a basic hail replacement.

Quick edit, unless you have an ungodly deductible, something like 10% or something unrealistic. A basic 2% deductible or couple grand deductible should always be absorbed by a roofing company if you are doing it right.