OKC Thunder 2016 off-season news

[Throckmorton]

I feel like we need to go ahead and put last season behind us and start the 2016-17 thread already, but, as we all know, there is a player whose pending decision to re-sign with the Thunder or go elsewhere has the immediate future of the franchise hanging in the balance.

That player, of course, is Dion Waiters.

So how about a thread for all off-season news (free agent stuff, other acquisitions, etc.) and then someone can start the 2016-17 thread after everything shakes out this summer?

[Thomas Vu]

Well that's great. I voted before reading the message.

[Laramie]

Throckmorton, you advanced a step without saying 'may I.'

Good idea, let's hope we can resign Dion Waiters; we've seen 50% improvement to his overall game--now he needs to work on consistency.

Don't want to get overly optimistic; however, Durant could sign on for more than one year now that he knows the team has the player personnel to compete for a championship. Afterall, this is Durant & Westbrook's team--they've coexisted since OKC's inaugural year in the NBA. K.D. isn't a quitter.

We can also use this thread for summer league news:

The Orlando Summer League will have 10 teams: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...303-story.html

[OKCisOK4me]

I did as well but by god, I'll take him (too) for another year!

[Bellaboo]

Waiters is only 24 years old. Has a lot of upside.

[dankrutka]

Waiters is only 24 years old. Has a lot of upside.

To be fair, he also has some downside. Waiters buckled down defensively in the playoffs and generally played much smarter than he has at any point in his career... Can he sustain those habits? I hope so, but it's a risk.

[BlackmoreRulz]

Is Dion worth Kanter type money? Would the Thunder match an offer like that?

[Laramie]

Is Dion worth Kanter type money? Would the Thunder match an offer like that?

My first take was is Kanter worth Kanter type money.

The NBA is a strange animal when it comes to today's salaries based on player worth. Unless there is someone out there that we could sign better than Dion; then Dion is worth Kanter type money;.

[dankrutka]

It's important to understand that like with Kanter, the Thunder can either sign Dion or they won't be able to spend that money on someone else because of salary cap restrictions. So, it's Dion or nothing on some level. I think the Thunder need to get Dion at about 12 million. If he gets more expensive then they'd have to consider (a) letting him walk or (b) trading Kanter before the deadline.

[Laramie]

It's important to understand that like with Kanter, the Thunder can either sign Dion or they won't be able to spend that money on someone else because of salary cap restrictions. So, it's Dion or nothing on some level. I think the Thunder need to get Dion at about 12 million. If he gets more expensive then they'd have to consider (a) letting him walk or (b) trading Kanter before the deadline.

If the Thunder want to keep Durant long-term; they are going to have to spend some money to keep the pieces around him.

Look for the ownership to go over the CAP if you want to keep this core group of Durant, Westbrook, Kanter, Adams, Ibaka & Waiters together.

[dankrutka]

If the Thunder want to keep Durant long-term; they are going to have to spend some money to keep the pieces around him.

Look for the ownership to go over the CAP if you want to keep this core group of Durant, Westbrook, Kanter, Adams, Ibaka & Waiters together.

There is no NBA franchise that can afford to pay all those guys market value. It won't happen. The only way to keep this team together is for both (a) the Thunder ownership to pay huge amounts AND (b) some players to take below market value. If the latter doesn't happen then some players will have to go. The way the CBA is structured has really worked against the Thunder. For example, there's a good chance the Thunder could be paying more for Kanter and Waiters than the Warriors are paying for Curry and Green. The Warriors just lucked out with timing. The Thunder have to convince some player to take Spurs-esque discounts or some players will have to go.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^^^
Last time around, Russ pushed away from the table with money (mostly in the form of potential bonuses IIRC) left on the table. I could see him doing the same again to stay with KD and a team situation, just not sure I see KD doing the same.

[dankrutka]

Russ forgo the Rose rule, which he didn't end up qualifying for anyway. He made the full amount he would have made. Still, it was an important symbolic gesture about sacrificing for the team. KD signed for his full amount, but sacrificed an opt out in his last year.

The Thunder were definitely trying to build a culture of sacrifice like the Spurs. But I'll never blame a player for not sacrificing either. Owners are doing better than ever despite contracts growing...

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
The important part is that he pushed back from the table. The Rose Rule would have made him eligible for 5% more of the cap. Not insignificant money. And all he had to do was ask for it, and he didn't. Even though he didn't end up qualifying, it was hardly a symbolic gesture. It was a very real one.

[Urbanized]

So a friend pointed out that Westbrook ABSOLUTELY DID qualify for the Rose Rule and would have received the 5% of cap bump based on making the All NBA team the year after his contract. Here is an article clarifying, right after he signed: http://dailythunder.com/2012/01/clar...ooks-contract/ , and here is an article from Yahoo! Sports from this year that mentions that he did qualify (would have required another All-NBA selection after signing; which he ended up getting): http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-ros...150439168.html

As the article states, he didn't leave theoretical money on the table. He left REAL money on the table, which ultimately resulted in the team's ability to sign Kanter and to match Portland's offer sheet last year:

One player that missed out on the Rose Rule but eventually met the criteria was Russell Westbrook. When the All-Star signed his rookie extension in January 2012, Westbrook had already met part of the criteria but did not negotiate the clause into his contract. Oklahoma City tabbed Westbrook as their “designated player max.” The tag allowed Westbrook to receive a five-year max extension (not including the fourth year on his rookie scale) while allowing the Thunder to have luxury tax flexibility going forward. The luxury-tax savings allowed the Thunder to eventually trade for Enes Kanter and match the offer sheet Kanter signed with Portland last summer.

In other words, it ended up being MUCH more than a symbolic gesture.

[dankrutka]

So a friend pointed out that Westbrook ABSOLUTELY DID qualify for the Rose Rule and would have received the 5% of cap bump based on making the All NBA team the year after his contract. Here is an article clarifying, right after he signed: http://dailythunder.com/2012/01/clar...ooks-contract/ , and here is an article from Yahoo! Sports from this year that mentions that he did qualify (would have required another All-NBA selection after signing; which he ended up getting): http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-ros...150439168.html

As the article states, he didn't leave theoretical money on the table. He left REAL money on the table, which ultimately resulted in the team's ability to sign Kanter and to match Portland's offer sheet last year:



In other words, it ended up being MUCH more than a symbolic gesture.

You're probably right. I was listening to a recent Down to Dunk podcast (which I highly recommend) and I thought they'd mentioned he hadn't qualified (I'm double checking), but maybe I heard wrong. Regardless, his sacrifice was certainly real at the time and a part of the Spurs culture the Thunder were trying to replicate. Of course, Reggie Jackson was a rude awakening to how difficult that can be as he both demanded a competitive salary (which I don't blame him for and he got significantly more) and also was all about himself, not the team. It's going to be interesting to see if KD re-signs if he makes any sacrifice like last time. I remember him being quoted once as saying he wasn't sure why he didn't demand an opt-out. But he also might realize that just a small sacrifice can really help the team maneuver the salary cap...

It really all is tough deal. NBA players make a lot of money and sacrificing can help them win. But, it's also kind absurd for them to sacrifice when uber-wealthy owners are doing better than they've ever done with an incredibly favorable CBA and cities building their stadiums across the country.

[dankrutka]

Okay, so I checked with Jon Hamm, who is OKC's resident cap expert, and Russ did NOT meet the criteria for the Rose rule. So, he did not actually sacrifice salary, but as I said above, it's really not that important. It's that players are willing to make small sacrifices to help the team wiggle around salary cap restrictions.

[Teo9969]

I'm pretty sure Westbrook qualified for the 30% max.

His Rookie contract took place during the 2009 playoff season through the 2012 playoff season.

Derrick Rose Rule:
1. Win the MVP
or 2. Make any All-NBA team twice
or 3. Make the All-Star Game as a starter via fan balloting twice

#1 - No (Never)
#2 - Yes (1st Team - 2016, 2nd Team - 2011, '12, '13, '15)
#3 - No (2016)

If they had written his contract as a Max contract, he would have qualified. They wrote his contract specifically as a 25% contract.

[dankrutka]

Westbrook had to meet those criteria within specific years and I don't think he did... I'll do some more research, but Jon Hamm is an expert on this complicated stuff...

[Teo9969]

He signed an extension after his 3rd season, so perhaps if he had signed a max contract extension he was only eligible for the 25% because at the time he had not qualified.

Either way, Russ did not sign a max contract, he signed a designated player, 5-year, 25% contract with no player options. He could have waited for free agency and qualified for the 30% max.

[Urbanized]

Teo is correct. He qualified by making all-NBA two years in a row. This was confirmed in the Yahoo Sports article I linked, which also pointed out that by him not triggering this the Thunder was able to trade for Kanter and then match Portland's offer sheet for the next season.

[dankrutka]

Yep, you're correct. My bad. He made NBA second team in the last two years he could to meet the Rose rule criteria.

[Throckmorton]

See you later, Serge.

Royce Young ‏@royceyoung 29m29 minutes ago

OKC has traded Serge Ibaka to the Orlando Magic for Victor Oladipo, Ersan Ilyasova and the rights to Domantis Sabonis.

[OSUMom]

see you later, serge.

*sniffle*

[Anonymous.]

Wow... I am sad to see Ibaka go, but OKC won that trade easily. Another stretch 4 and a solid wing player that will likely start.