Tulsa the more well known and better developed city?

[Mel]

Tulsa has only 2 syllables and is easier to say. Other than a brief mention in "Route 66" we never got a song as cool as 'Living on Tulsa Time".

[Pete]

Tulsa has only 2 syllables and is easier to say. Other than a brief mention in "Route 66" we never got a song as cool as 'Living on Tulsa Time".

Tulsa Time never even hit the Top 100 on Billboard and it was released 37 years ago.

Strictly a C&W hit and very, very few people in Southern California listen to that type of music.

I bet I could ask 100 of my friends if they have ever heard of it and not get one positive response.

[Plutonic Panda]

I've lived in Southern California for 25 years, virtually everyone who knows me knows I'm from Oklahoma and I can't remember anyone mentioning Tulsa. Very, very few people have been to OKC or Tulsa let alone both, so I've never, ever heard anyone give an opinion of one over the other.

If people know anything at all about the state it's about OU football and now the Thunder. To a lesser extent tornadoes, oil business, etc.

Also, when I tell people that OKC is becoming a boom town, virtually everyone says something like, "Yeah, that's what I hear."


Especially in L.A., people know Oklahoma City because of the NBA and specifically that we've been better than the Lakers and Clippers (apart from this year). EVERYONE knows Kevin Durant. Most know Russell Westbrook as well, as he went to UCLA.

When they give basketball scores, the Thunder is often referenced as simply 'OKC'. And now with the Dodgers tie-in, OKC is only going to be more known to people here.


I completely refute and reject your conclusions.

As to whether Tulsa is prettier or better developed, that's a complete separate discussion.

go right ahead I don't care. I have no reason to lie here man. I am speaking of my own personal experiences Pete. I've talked to a lot of people over the past month and quite a few added in about what they know about the place.

The people I met were at malls, bars, restaurants, on the bus or train, Uber drivers, my new job etc.

I don't know what to tell you. If you don't want to believe me or want to refute my claims, than that allows me to see an even bigger picture of what I previously thought.

[Pete]

Never said you were lying.

Just don't believe what you characterized is anywhere near the full reality.

[Plutonic Panda]

You explained it right here - those people you are talking too don't know OKC.

You talk to anyone that knows anything about the NBA ?

I honestly didn't talk about sports much. There were a couple mentions of the Thunder, but that's about it. I haven't been really going to sports bars though or something sporty, so that's probably why.

[Plutonic Panda]

Never said you were lying.

Just don't believe what you characterized is anywhere near the full reality.

well, I'm not sure what to say.

I just posted what I had experienced first hand. This is my first long trip by myself and i stopped at many tourist stuff and restaurants and always made it a point to talk with people.

Perhaps the more people I get to know, the opinion might change, I don't know. I can just tell you that I swear on my life what I said is what I have heard and I'm not excited about it and I'm really shocked.

[Bullbear]

I'm really not going to worry much about polling people in other places to justify what city is more well known or developing.

[Urbanized]

...The ones that have been to Oklahoma typically have driven through on their way somewhere else...

You've hit on one thing that gives us a bit of a negative hit when it comes to perception. Over the years I have worked many consumer trade shows on behalf of the Oklahoma tourism industry, plus have spoken with many thousands of people who were visiting OKC for the first time. It's pretty common for people who are from the region to say they have been to OKC, but on further questioning they have driven through and not stopped other than for gas.

Usually, if people make it off of the highway here they have completely unexpected positive experience. The problem is that many, many people experience OKC only from the highway, and we really drew the short straw there, with the highway viewscape not matching the actual community closely at all. Problem is, when someone drives through here - and passes miles of cheap hotels, weary strip centers and dusty yards full of oilfield equipment - they think they have "been there."

There is also something to be said for coastal bias, where people from the east and west coasts think of everything in this part of the world as "flyover country" and don't know us from Fort Smith, Des Moines, Omaha, Kansas City or Albuquerque.

Other than that I think most of the perception of OKC is nonexistent. As in, people know very little about us at all.

[LocoAko]

Neither of Oklahoma's cities are large enough or important enough to be on the radar for a lot of people outside this region. When most people think of Oklahoma, they don't think of cities. They think of the Thunder, oil, tornadoes, the bombing, and the religious right. They don't know a lot about it outside of that. OKC is a pass-through city for a lot of people taking cross-country trips. With that said, TU'cane makes some excellent points above about why Tulsa might be more well-known amongst some people. When was the last time OKC was mentioned in a song or a movie?

This has been my general experience as well. Beating a dead horse here, but back home in NJ/NYC, very few people know much of anything about Oklahoma. At best, they know it for tornadoes and then the Thunder if they're into sports. Given most people's terrible sense of geography in this country, I doubt if most of my friends could even find it on a map if it weren't for our distinct and well-known shape (I once had someone ask me how often I took daytrips to Chicago... the myopia of those on the coasts can be astounding sometimes lol). I think 95% of what my social circle knows about Oklahoma comes from my Facebook ramblings/posts, so hooray for being an unofficial ambassador for Oklahoma, I guess.

If I had to guess, I think Tulsa seems prettier on first glance when people are stopping through quickly, so I could see it giving a better initial impression. Beyond that I'm just simply surprised to hear that most people on the West Coast have an opinion about either city at all.

[Jesseda]

I am from California I have lived here in Moore most of my life but travel back often and have several relatives who live from San Diego up all the way to Chico and its more the other way around, They know about OKC but nothing really about Tulsa, when I tell them Tulsa has about a million people in their metro my relatives respond " Really that many"! And when I tell them okc has about 1.3 million in its metro their response is usually " That's all, I thought there was more people then that in okc "! The majority of my relatives ( which is a lot my mom is one of 11 kids and my dad is one of 14 so I have literally 60 plus first cousins which more then 3/4 still live in California ) thinks okc is a middle size city while Tulsa is just a small city.

[Bellaboo]

Was that even showing outside of Oklahoma?

Does it matter ?
The others are/were national.

I didn't mention 'Pearl' about the Chickasaw woman aviator, but some scenes were from various local locations.

Hell, the Oklahoma City Thunder were on TV over 80 times this past season (25 National broadcasts at that).

As far as exposure goes, it's probably cut and dried in OKC's favor.

[adaniel]

This has been my general experience as well. Beating a dead horse here, but back home in NJ/NYC, very few people know much of anything about Oklahoma. At best, they know it for tornadoes and then the Thunder if they're into sports. Given most people's terrible sense of geography in this country, I doubt if most of my friends could even find it on a map if it weren't for our distinct and well-known shape .......Beyond that I'm just simply surprised to hear that most people on the West Coast have an opinion about either city at all.

Just tell them its the frying pan hitting Texas on the head!

Oklahoma and California have a weird cultural connection, so it doesn't surprise me that more people on the west coast know about OK than those on the east.

I work in the land department of an oil company that has quite a bit of oil and gas interests in Roger Mills County and the Panhandle. I would guess 40-50% of our mineral owners in this area are from California or a surrounding state. These are the decedents of the Okies who have inherited their mineral rights.

[bchris02]

You've hit on one thing that gives us a bit of a negative hit when it comes to perception. Over the years I have worked many consumer trade shows on behalf of the Oklahoma tourism industry, plus have spoken with many thousands of people who were visiting OKC for the first time. It's pretty common for people who are from the region to say they have been to OKC, but on further questioning they have driven through and not stopped other than for gas.

Usually, if people make it off of the highway here they have completely unexpected positive experience. The problem is that many, many people experience OKC only from the highway, and we really drew the short straw there, with the highway viewscape not matching the actual community closely at all. Problem is, when someone drives through here - and passes miles of cheap hotels, weary strip centers and dusty yards full of oilfield equipment - they think they have "been there."

I agree with this.

The Skydance Bridge is nice because it is something memorable that passers through see other than cheap motels, industrial warehouses, or yards of oil equipment. I think more should be done to improve and beautify I-40 going through OKC to promote a better perception. I really like what ODOT has done with I-44 in Tulsa.

[Pete]

Far less people take long cross-country car trips than they used to.

It's simply way cheaper to fly these days, plus people are far more pressed for time.

I agree OKC doesn't put it's best foot forward when passing through via the interstate, but other than those in the surrounding areas, I don't think too many people from California (or most other places) are passing through anyway.

Ironically, the one person I know who did do this said she stopped at Kitchen no. 324 for lunch. Must have used Yelp or something similar... And she raved about Kitchen, of course.

[ZYX2]

Much cheaper to fly? Maybe for one person, but for a family, it is much cheaper to drive.

[OklahomaNick]

Something I did not know of until recently was that there is some anonymity from the people that live in Tulsa towards OKC.

People from Tulsa are very prideful and proud of their city, which is GREAT! But the claws come out if someone who lives in Tulsa tells their Tulsa friends they are moving to OKC. I have heard this from multiple people (including my wife), and I always thought it was very interesting. I think some it comes from the fact that Tulsa is really a strong OSU town and OKC is a strong OU town.

As an OKC guy I grew up liking Tulsa because I thought it was cool that Oklahoma had 2 big cities! And it's awesome seeing Tulsa doing some great development projects! A rising tide lifts all ships in my opinion and it's helpful to both OKC and Tulsa when both are doing well! It's good for the state!

[Urbanized]

Far less people take long cross-country car trips than they used to.

It's simply way cheaper to fly these days, plus people are far more pressed for time.

I agree OKC doesn't put it's best foot forward when passing through via the interstate, but other than those in the surrounding areas, I don't think too many people from California (or most other places) are passing through anyway.

Ironically, the one person I know who did do this said she stopped at Kitchen no. 324 for lunch. Must have used Yelp or something similar... And she raved about Kitchen, of course.

Yeah, I honestly think it is more of an issue for people from surrounding states. They are the ones driving through the most often, and are less likely to stop for leisure unless this is their destination. Compound that with the fact that people in places like Dallas are somewhat predisposed to not having a favorable view of Oklahoma and it leads to some misconception and quick acceptance of the place as a dump. That said, our reputation, especially as a family getaway destination, is LIGHT YEARS ahead of where it was even ten years ago, regionally. I used to have people at Dallas consumer shows scoff and laugh in my face at the idea of coming to Oklahoma for a pleasure trip. Nowadays the reaction is usually somewhere between "OMG we go there all of the time and it's awesome" to "my sister-in-law takes her kids up there all of the time and raves about it...we really need to check it out soon..."

I can't stress how much ground we have made up in this regard, especially regionally.

By the way, not to turn this into a CC debate, but this is one of the rarely-discussed impacts that building a quality convention center will have, and in a way that will never really make it to the balance sheet. I have on multiple occasions spoken with people on trips here whose first visit to OKC was a conference, prompting them to come back at a later date, either as part of another trip or with OKC as primary destination. I specifically recall speaking with a woman a while back who had been here for a conference the year before and planned her entire vacation for central Oklahoma (from SOCAL) because she liked it so much.

[Pete]

Much cheaper to fly? Maybe for one person, but for a family, it is much cheaper to drive.

From L.A. to OKC and points beyond? You also have at least two nights in a hotel (one night each way) and meals for at least four full days.

I bet it's close to break even for a family of four and it saves you almost two days each way.


In any event, I know virtually no one that has traveled that far from here in a car. I've only done it once in the 25 years I've lived out here.

[Swake]

Tulsa Time never even hit the Top 100 on Billboard and it was released 37 years ago.

Strictly a C&W hit and very, very few people in Southern California listen to that type of music.

I bet I could ask 100 of my friends if they have ever heard of it and not get one positive response.

Um, no.

The more famous version was by Eric Clapton, and isn't done in a C&W style, it's actually an example of The Tulsa Sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l86AYxdYoUo

[Pete]

Um, no.

The more famous version was by Eric Clapton, and isn't done in a C&W style, it's actually an example of The Tulsa Sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l86AYxdYoUo

Forgot about that.

Hit #30 in 1980.

[bradh]

still not better than Don Williams

[Swake]

Forgot about that.

Hit #30 in 1980.

A Billboard chart number is far from the whole story. That Clapton song has been a mainstay on Classic Rock stations nationally for more than 30 years. Everyone also knows Bob Will’s song Take Me Back to Tulsa even if they have never heard of Cain’s Ballroom.

A big part of people knowing Tulsa is probably from music, books and movies.

Across the county, many if not most, middle school/Jr High students read The Outsiders in class. Even if a kid doesn’t read the book in school, it’s one of the four or five top selling young adult novels of all time, even today. Then there’s Coppola’s Outsiders movie. SE Hinton’s other books, Tex and Rumblefish, have always sold well and they also became movies that show up on cable here and there. Weird Al was just in Tulsa for the 25th anniversary of his cult classic movie, UHF, filmed in Tulsa at a fictional TV station. In all of these Tulsa itself is a character in the story and not just a generic location.


That said, I completely agree that today, the larger awareness is going to be of OKC and 99% of that is going to be from The Thunder. That is only more true in NBA mad LA.

[TU 'cane]

*I* hadn't even heard of three of those referenced songs and I lived in Oklahoma the first 29 years of my life and during the period when they were recorded.

This a massive reach in the first place and even sillier to try and forward it as some sort of legitimate explanation for a highly dubious conclusion (that most people in Southern Cal think more often and highly of Tulsa than OKC) based one person's 2-week experience versus people that have lived here for decades.

I don't think it's that massive of a reach. It was more of a point(s) that Tulsa seems to have more pop culture reference than OKC. Especially back in the day when it was known as the Oil Capital and was capitalized off of as such.

It seems some posts center on trying to find a reason as to why Tulsa SHOULDN'T be mentioned.

As I had said to adaniel as a possible explanation to Plu Plan's experiences, they're just that, his experiences. We can't confirm or deny, we can't validate what he's heard or who he's spoken to. But, he did come on here and post something discussion worthy and asked for input. Again, obviously we can all agree/disagree with each other, but we need to be careful as these discussions seem to always veer into a versus mode by the end.

[BDP]

I lived in California for about 8 years, including San Francisco and LA, and my experiences were pretty much the same as Pete's. And this was when people in OK thought the NHL was a pipe dream, let alone the NBA. I used to (jokingly) accuse my CA friends of being "stateist" because their awareness of the US was limited to about 5 states and the rest were beneath them. I don't think I ever once even had a conversation about Tulsa. That doesn't mean anything except that it just never came up.

I honestly have no idea how Tulsa is perceived by Californians or others outside of OK. All I know is that my personal conversations with strangers about OKC while traveling over my lifetime have gone from general indifference / condescension to consoling / sympathetic (bombing) to genuine curiosity / positive perception. I remember the first time someone told me they went to OKC as tourists. It was a cab driver from Vegas. I kept asking him why he was in OKC again, and he kept telling me "on vacation". That was weird. Then a couple of years ago when an African cab driver (I'm kind of feeling like a schlep right now for not remembering his specific nationality) in Chicago told me he had been wanting to check out Oklahoma City, I just kept thinking "something strange is happening".

[Decious]

I lived in LA for years and never heard much of anything said about Oklahoma at all. Almost nothing. I've lived in OKC for a while now and I like it. Detest the politics but love the organic and upwardly mobile way of thinking that I've found.

I know people who hate LA. Love LA. Hate OKC. Love OKC. I know far more who are indifferent towards both.

IMO we need to remember that everything is seasonal. OKCTalk is not invulnerable to decay. This website and sounding board is becoming ever more popular... but some of the sideshows??? VERY off putting. EVERYONE knows OKC's weak points. We've been talking about them on this site for a decade. Nevertheless... those weaknesses are constantly offered up again and again by certain people as if they are imparting wisdom. We KNOWWWWWWW! OKC is sprawled the hell out. We know. Portland and Austin are more popular. We know. Tulsa has more trees. Long established. There is no ikea. Right.

This forum is great! A daily read for me. Great info source! But lately.... it's more comic sitcom than history channel or wsj. On this very same internet that okctalk rests upon... you'll find city-data. Go to the Oklahoma sub forum. There you'll find all of the juvenile yapping and flapping pouncing on every long obvious weakness that you can stomach. It's a cesspool of bias and misinformation. I applaud the open nature and hesitant moderation of this forum... but let's not allow it to become toxic. The personality of one or two people should not be able to dominate an outlet like this.

LA is cool. OKC is cool. Tulsa is cool. NYC is my favorite city. I don't live there. Why? My own subjective reasons. Opinions are cool. Nobody minds that. Just stop presenting them as fact. I believe Plu Plan but... doesn't matter. I wish you the best in LA bro. Great city! Be happy!!!!