Tulsa the more well known and better developed city?

[Plutonic Panda]

I just wanted to point out a couple things I have noticed is virtually every single person I've talked with maybe one or two exceptions...

So the first thing is out here in SoCal, and most of the southwest(West New Mexico area, and Arizona) that 9.99 out of 10 people have all asked where OKC is in relation to Tulsa or how far it is from Tulsa when I mentioned I am from OKC.

Also, everyone I talked who have to be both cities with a single exception have all said they like Tulsa much better.

This is very interesting to me.

When I moved out here, I moved with a whole new outlook on life. I'm trying to become a better person and I'm trying to ask more questions and understand rather than talk. Everyone that was familiar with both cities I would always ask them which city they like better. I never gave them my opinion of Tulsa which some here know I used to hate the city.

Say what you want and I'm sure there are going to be people that are going to use the then vs now argument that is constantly used in defense of 2015 Oklahoma City, but after taking with probably 100+ people who all pretty much say the same thing I'm really coming to the conclusion that Tulsa is the better city in Oklahoma and I'm finding out the reason of why Tulsa is getting better retail first; what I am finding keeps getting more true with each person I talk with.

I just wanted to share that because I though it was interesting.

[dankrutka]

I'm glad you're taking a thoughtful approach. That's not easy to do... But I think you're asking the wrong questions.

[adaniel]

Um, okay.....

You asked random people in LA their opinion, so clearly they must be right.

I'm not understanding where you're going with this.

[Plutonic Panda]

Adaniel, you really need to think before you post. Did you even read what I said? I clearly state the southwest. Yes, I'm going to trust all of the people I've been talking to especially over someone who thinks Dallas has bad traffic.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm glad you're taking a thoughtful approach. That's not easy to do... But I think you're asking the wrong questions.

I'm not sure what you mean. I just thought it was really interesting because I always pictured OKC as the most dominant and well known city yet hardly anyone I've talked to knows where it is but most know where Tulsa is. It really surprises me and I would think it should be the opposite.

Even with all that is under construction right now, it won't change much.

BTW, I'm not trying to hate on OKC. I left out that I actually told most of the people I talked to at the end what was happening in OKC and they seemed impressed. I'm defending OKC mainly because it's my home, but I still can't believe how out of the picture it is especially with all the recent press and Thunder games.

[bchris02]

Tulsa is prettier, it's more compact, and has historically had an arts and cultural scene leaps and bounds ahead of OKC's (though they no longer are as far ahead as they once were). Also, Tulsa wouldn't be what it is if they weren't lucky enough to have George Kaiser. They have amenities most metro areas under 1 million would kill for. Though both OKC and Tulsa's urban core suffered much neglect following the 1980s oil crash, I don't think Tulsa ever fell as far as OKC did. Prior to the Devon Tower's construction, Tulsa had the better skyline. Prior to the Thunder's arrival, OKC simply wasn't on the radar for people outside of this region. Tulsa was better known, if only for its frequent mention in country songs and Chandler moving there in "Friends." OKC was that "city you passed through and stopped for gas and McDs" on your cross-country I-40 road trip. With all of that said, stereotypes and perceptions take a long, long time to change. A lot of OKC's most remarkable improvements have occurred in just the past five years. The next five years should be even bigger.

Within a decade, barring a major economic catastrophe, nobody will be able to say with a straight face that Tulsa is ahead of OKC. People may like Tulsa better for various reasons, but post-MAPS3 OKC will offer amenities that Tulsa won't and the list of things Tulsa has that OKC doesn't will keep diminishing. Eventually perception will change.

[TU 'cane]

Um, okay.....

You asked random people in LA their opinion, so clearly they must be right.

I'm not understanding where you're going with this.

I don't believe the OP was going anywhere in particular with the mindset you mention. He's met some folks out West and when he mentions where he's from, Tulsa seems to pop up more often. His sample batch is not representative of the whole to us, but perhaps to him it is, given his perspective. We've all ran into scenarios like this and we discuss/debate all the time on this forum. Ex. What geographic region is OK? We all have different experiences and stories from outsiders' perspectives that we mention. I believe that's all Plu Pan was doing here.

-

Plu Pan, on top once being known as the "Oil Capital of the World," (something not given up until the 1970s-1980s, here's a little more to add on to a possible reason Tulsa's "more well known" amongst some people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBnm-qu5Rtc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6MbPWzIFUk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn7uFyPZAj8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC82ewG-Qu0


Additional reading: List of songs about Oklahoma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's just one of those things, Tulsa had some "pop" to it back in the day, it was the next big up and coming city.
I always hear how people are shocked that Tulsa has less than 1 million people, and that's because they always thought Tulsa was a BIG city due to how popular it was.

Tulsa rolls off the tongue easier too, so I'm sure that plays into it's mentions in movies, etc. over Oklahoma City.

However, the shift has already happened. OKC is by far the more well known city now thanks to the Thunder.
And as bchris said, if OKC keeps it's current momentum, Tulsa will be left in it's shadow instead of the reverse. Tulsa's developments are just not as significant as OKC's. But, they occur at a rate that keeps the city in line just enough, see the River Spirit expansion or the new Gathering Place park, for example.

Edit: just came across this, Tulsa's music scene (not just talking about the Hanson Brothers...) has always been top notch and envied to add to some of the points above:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downt...371636f66.html

[Colbafone]

Idk man. I've spent a ton of time in southern California, as well as around Seattle, all over the great plains and the South, and I think while nearly everyone would agree Tulsa has a prettier geographical location, everyone I have ever talked to knows the importance of Okc compared to Tulsa. It's one thing to say Tulsa is prettier, but Okc is definitely more of the driving force in Oklahoma. Especially now, wwith the Thunder and Devon tower. Tulsa has always been a cool city to me, but what Okc has done since the first Maps is incredible. Many people in the know throughout the country know about this. Okc is no secret, anywhere in the US.

[Pete]

I've lived in Southern California for 25 years, virtually everyone who knows me knows I'm from Oklahoma and I can't remember anyone mentioning Tulsa. Very, very few people have been to OKC or Tulsa let alone both, so I've never, ever heard anyone give an opinion of one over the other.

If people know anything at all about the state it's about OU football and now the Thunder. To a lesser extent tornadoes, oil business, etc.

Also, when I tell people that OKC is becoming a boom town, virtually everyone says something like, "Yeah, that's what I hear."


Especially in L.A., people know Oklahoma City because of the NBA and specifically that we've been better than the Lakers and Clippers (apart from this year). EVERYONE knows Kevin Durant. Most know Russell Westbrook as well, as he went to UCLA.

When they give basketball scores, the Thunder is often referenced as simply 'OKC'. And now with the Dodgers tie-in, OKC is only going to be more known to people here.


I completely refute and reject your conclusions.

As to whether Tulsa is prettier or better developed, that's a complete separate discussion.

[bradh]

Tulsa matters to people in the arts (maybe that's who he is hanging with in LA?)

OKC matters to everyone else

[Motley]

I've lived in Cincinnati, Oregon, Texas, and So. Cal since 1989, and I can say no one has ever asked or cared about OKC or Tulsa. Mention OK, and the comments are about OU football and tornadoes and doesn't OK have lots of snow in the winter. I don't hear any comments about the cities. Do get jokes about being a bumpkin. If someone has visited OKC recently, I get positive comments. More than one said it kind of reminds them of Denver.

[Bellaboo]

I'm not sure what you mean. I just thought it was really interesting because I always pictured OKC as the most dominant and well known city yet hardly anyone I've talked to knows where it is but most know where Tulsa is. It really surprises me and I would think it should be the opposite.

Even with all that is under construction right now, it won't change much.

BTW, I'm not trying to hate on OKC. I left out that I actually told most of the people I talked to at the end what was happening in OKC and they seemed impressed. I'm defending OKC mainly because it's my home, but I still can't believe how out of the picture it is especially with all the recent press and Thunder games.

You explained it right here - those people you are talking too don't know OKC.

You talk to anyone that knows anything about the NBA ?

[Pete]

Tulsa matters to people in the arts (maybe that's who he is hanging with in LA?)

I can assure you that people in California don't think Tulsa matters in the arts in even a very minor way.

I say this with all due respect to Tulsa and the Oklahoma art scene, but L.A. and San Francisco are world-class cities when it comes to virtually all the arts. People out here only think about New York and Europe when it comes to these sorts of things; not even Chicago let alone Tulsa or OKC.

[adaniel]

I don't believe the OP was going anywhere in particular with the mindset you mention. He's met some folks out West and when he mentions where he's from, Tulsa seems to pop up more often. His sample batch is not representative of the whole to us, but perhaps to him it is, given his perspective. We've all ran into scenarios like this and we discuss/debate all the time on this forum. Ex. What geographic region is OK? We all have different experiences and stories from outsiders' perspectives that we mention. I believe that's all Plu Pan was doing here.

Fair enough. It just seems very anecdotal and certainly not in line with experiences I've had, nor others.

Keep in mind I have quite a bit of family in that area, moreso Las Vegas than SoCal, but all lived in the LA area at one point and LV is pretty much an extension of Southern California these days. When I've been there and hung out with their friends, Tulsa has never entered the conversation, good or bad. But most people are fairly familiar with OKC. My uncle's neighbor lived in Long Beach and is acquainted with Russell Westbrook's family. While making small talk, he kinda asked me all these questions about what's OKC like, I hear good things about it, do they really get all those tornadoes, blah blah blah. This was a few years ago, but my general experience was people were not super familiar with OKC but had a generally positive impression of it and wanted to learn more.

Also of note is there is fairly strong in-migration from SoCal to the entire I-35 corridor, from OKC all the way down to San Antonio. Tulsa is largely absent from this. That's not a slam against Tulsa, but OKC has always "looked west" in its outlook, Tulsa is the opposite.

Something else to consider. A lot of OKC based institutions like Sonic and Mathis Brothers are quite popular in SoCal, or at least in areas I've seen.

[Pete]

By the way -- and I've made this point elsewhere -- we really need to stop with this obsession of how the state and OKC are perceived.

The constant longing for external validation reminds me of the needy girl no one wants to date.

[Bullbear]

My Partner is from LA.. he moved here 5 years ago.. we have lots of friends in LA area and SF and San Diego. I can't say I share your observation of people at all. I agree with Pete most have never been to either city and know OKC now especially due to Thunder. Also sadly most people know OKC due to the Bombing.

[bradh]

I can assure you that people in California don't think Tulsa matters in the arts in even a very minor way.

I say this with all due respect to Tulsa and the Oklahoma art scene, but L.A. and San Francisco are world-class cities when it comes to virtually all the arts. People out here only think about New York and Europe when it comes to these sorts of things; not even Chicago let alone Tulsa or OKC.

Pete...with all due respect, you don't say?

I really was just trying to make some sort of an attempt to excuse the OP

[Pete]

Pete...with all due respect, you don't say?

I really was just trying to make some sort of an attempt to excuse the OP

I understand that.

But I know tons of artists and actors and musicians out here.

[hfry]

Well said Bullbear. Sadly in France about 6 years ago, telling people I was from Oklahoma I was immediately asked if I lived in Oklahoma city and if I was near the bombing. But the point has been made already but truly what does it matter. I love this city, all of its flaw and strengths and I am more than excited about where it is headed. To me that matters much more than a small survey, no offense PluPan. Truly glad that you are enjoying SoCo and it seems the the type of city that you were needing!

[BG918]

In Denver most people I know don't really know much about Oklahoma. The know the Thunder but aside from the team being in OKC don't know or care about the city where the Thunder plays (aside from "this city has great fans" when watching high profile or playoff games). Also OU football when the team is highly ranked or playing a nationally televised game. But little about OU itself and Norman, or that it's part of the OKC metro, is typically known. I still get "did you go to the orange one or red one" when I tell people I graduated from OU. Some even say "Ohio?" and I have to clarify no Oklahoma!

The ones that have been to Oklahoma typically have driven through on their way somewhere else. In that they say the eastern half is much prettier than the western half. If they drive through OKC they comment that the Devon Tower is really cool but looks completely out of place because it's so tall. Or if they drive through Tulsa they've commented on the bad condition of the highways (probably either the BA or 75 both of which are terrible).

They generally lump Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska and the Dakotas into one area "the eastern Plains". When I said I grew up in Tulsa one said "oh that's in the nice part of Oklahoma".

[bchris02]

Neither of Oklahoma's cities are large enough or important enough to be on the radar for a lot of people outside this region. When most people think of Oklahoma, they don't think of cities. They think of the Thunder, oil, tornadoes, the bombing, and the religious right. They don't know a lot about it outside of that. OKC is a pass-through city for a lot of people taking cross-country trips. With that said, TU'cane makes some excellent points above about why Tulsa might be more well-known amongst some people. When was the last time OKC was mentioned in a song or a movie?

[Bellaboo]

[QUOTE=bchris02;888921]Neither of Oklahoma's cities are larger enough or important enough to be on the radar for a lot of people outside this region. When most people think of Oklahoma, they don't think of cities. They think of the Thunder, oil, tornadoes, the bombing, and the religious right. They don't know a lot about it outside of that. OKC is a pass-through city for a lot of people taking cross-country trips. With that said, TU'cane makes some excellent points above about why Tulsa might be more well-known amongst some people. When was the last time OKC was mentioned in a song or a movie?[/QUOTE]

Rudderless - 2015,

TV series Saving Grace - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saving_Grace_(TV_series) Ran from 2007 - 2010

And this little documentary that was running as of last week - http://newsok.com/movie-review-oklah...rticle/5408771

[adaniel]

Tulsa has been mentioned in the media much more lately, although largely for the wrong reasons.

The First 48 Tulsa, OK Cast - A&E

Death of Man Shot by Reserve Deputy Ruled a Homicide - ABC News

[bchris02]

And this little documentary that was running as of last week - Movie review: 'Oklahoma City: The Boom, the Bust and the Bomb' | News OK

Was that even showing outside of Oklahoma?

[Pete]

TU'cane makes some excellent points above about why Tulsa might be more well-known amongst some people. When was the last time OKC was mentioned in a song or a movie?

*I* hadn't even heard of three of those referenced songs and I lived in Oklahoma the first 29 years of my life and during the period when they were recorded.

This a massive reach in the first place and even sillier to try and forward it as some sort of legitimate explanation for a highly dubious conclusion (that most people in Southern Cal think more often and highly of Tulsa than OKC) based one person's 2-week experience versus people that have lived here for decades.