Home building tips

[RadicalModerate]

Your last paragraph, above, nails it, Klop.
(at least in my opinion)

Here's one of my favorite old sayings (from back in the day):
"If you are going to 'cut corners' in order to save money, don't do it on the foundation. Every other expensive part of the structure relies on it. Choose less expensive countertops, or whatever, later. But don't skimp on the foundation."

(Disclaimer: I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of The Concrete/Masonry Cabal or Union . . . =)

[SoonerDave]

[QUOTE=BlackmoreRulz;761123]Partially correct, a pier and grade system will have pier holes dug down at the corners and various load bearing spots then a stem wall poured on grade bridging the pier holes.[/qupte]

Completely omitted the corner piering. Thanks for pointing that out.

A traditional slab will be poured in a three step process, the footings will be dug and poured first usually 18"-24" below ground, then a stemwall, then the floor after plumbing is roughed in.

The post tension slabs are poured monolithically...ie the footing, stem, and slab are all poured at once after the plumbing and tension cables are installed. They then come back and tension the cables afterwards.

Yeah, when I saw pier-and-beam with what seemed to be no footing compared to the "excavated" footing, I had to think the only advantage was cost - little to no excavation, rebar, additional pour, etc. Had one builder tell me he'd "never" build that way - excavated, reinforced footing all the way for him. There really was no PT in the discussion back then.

[SoonerDave]

Your last paragraph, above, nails it, Klop.
(at least in my opinion)

Here's one of my favorite old sayings (from back in the day):
"If you are going to 'cut corners' in order to save money, don't do it on the foundation. Every other expensive part of the structure relies on it. Choose less expensive countertops, or whatever, later. But don't skimp on the foundation."

(Disclaimer: I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of The Concrete/Masonry Cabal or Union . . . =)

+1,000,000.

Precisely the kind of thing that led me to my other comment - that some of the cheapest, dirtiest construction "tricks" were used in the nicest areas. But man, those houses looked great. That's why I looked at the guts of a bunch of houses to see how builders built them before I signed a contract with anyone. There was one fairly well-known builder (whom I shall not name) who framed the interiors on 24" centers rather than 16". I didn't know this for a fact until I looked at one or two of his houses and thought, wait, something doesn't look right, but I wasn't sure what - until I noticed the stud spacing. Brought out a tape measure, and bingo. I'm assuming 16" centers either wasn't code back then, or if it were, the code was liberally ignored. Not sure. And this same neighborhood was replete with sagging covered patios and lots of rumors in the area about lots of structural issues the builder presumably would not fix...Mind you, this is not an indictment of all builders by any means, but just my observations of the practices of a select few builders several years ago. The point is that one cannot assume that because the house is finished well that it was constructed well.

Ya just gotta be very, very careful. With that kind of expense, and the info that's out there these days, I'm amazed more average consumers aren't still better educated. Heck, even for all the study I did, I was painfully ignorant of HVAC systems and have subsequently found ours to be....lets say..less than optimal.

[RadicalModerate]

SoonerDave: just fyi, hopefully without even a trace of "rumormongering" . . . Some of the worst inattention to foundational/other construction details involving concrete that I've personally encountered include those in a well-known development that starts with "G" and is on the far NW side. This is not to say that the houses don't LOOK beyond beautiful because they do. I'm just curious how they will look in another 20 years. Expansive clay soils, combined with drainage planning ignorance, are a bitch. This probably has something to do with the lack of enthusiasm, on the part of Civic Planners, to put in a bunch of sidewalks. (People who aren't watching where they are walking are liable to trip and file lawsuits and whatever. Even with the convenience of sidewalks.) It sort of goes back to a revelation that I had at one point regarding Construction Values (back in the '80's): "What we are building here seem to be "instant slums" for the future" . . . (a lot of that had to do with using "Masonite" siding (of later lawsuit fame) improperly installed). And, in my entire career in the business, I only saw ONE slab poured (by others) that was actually square and level.

p.s.: if one isn't going for a basement/crawlspace (with all the benefits, and higher initial cost), a pier and grade beam is probably the best option here in Central Oklahoma. Just be sure to do that soil survey before spending a dime on the concrete.

I should probably note here that the "Master Carpenter" from whom I learned "The Way It is Supposed to Be" (in terms of framing and cornice work) was a "Mason" ("Masonic Lodge") member too. Not that I ever had any desire whatsoever to be part of that "fraternity." I'm more of the Norm Abrams/Tommy Silva/Roy Underhill/Mike Holmes School. =)

Illustration of Principle: I once had a "customer/client" complain/express a concern that the 2 x 12's (purchased at their Lumberyard of Choice) that we were assembling to create a "field-laminated" porch beam (including a pre-drilled steel plate, bolted in) varied by 1/8" from the one (the 2 x 12) adjacent to it. I looked at him and said: "Do I look like a f***kin' sawmill to you?"

This is one reason I have Cooking as a hobby rather than Carpentry. =)

btw: The Master Mason/Carpenter that I learned from--in reality--once said (in regard to properly fitting gable studs): "Just nail it . . . We ain't buildin' a f****in' piano here." He pronounced it, "pie-anne" yet his meaning was clear. =)

[Motley]

I have a family member is SW OK in need of a house built on a small piece of land. Question is which is cheaper per sq ft: 1) traditional stick construction; 2) prefab or modular home; or 3) manufactured house (double-wide trailer house delivered on site)?

I am assuming a simple, basic house of say 1750sqf.

Does any one have a ballpark on the cost per sq ft for each construction type, assuming it includes foundation, delivery, septic, and everything but the cost of the land?

[RadicalModerate]

I have a family member is SW OK in need of a house built on a small piece of land. Question is which is cheaper per sq ft: 1) traditional stick construction; 2) prefab or modular home; or 3) manufactured house (double-wide trailer house delivered on site)?

I am assuming a simple, basic house of say 1750sqf.
Does any one have a ballpark on the cost per sq ft for each construction type, assuming it includes foundation, delivery, septic, and everything but the cost of the land?

That is sort of a trick question to answer on account of it is difficult to balance "cheaper" with "more valuer" and whether it is a DIY Project or not. I would venture to say that #3 might be the answer, except for tornadoes. Earthquakes probably wouldn't effect the structure as severely, so it's a balanced trade-off. in a way . . . First thing is to have a geological survey done to determine the soil characteristics then proceed accordingly.

[Motley]

It is sandy soil, and I see lots of homes being built and lots of manufactured homes being sited in that area. That part of OK doesn't have earthquakes as seen of late in N. and central OK. They need basic construction, i.e., Formica over granite countertops; laminate floors over wood, etc. I would assume they might be able to be their own contractor for building (but do not labor in the actual construction), but would of course rely on a prefab or manufacturer for those two types of construction.

[RadicalModerate]

It is sandy soil, and I see lots of homes being built and lots of manufactured homes being sited in that area. That part of OK doesn't have earthquakes as seen of late in N. and central OK. They need basic construction, i.e., Formica over granite countertops; laminate floors over wood, etc. I would assume they might be able to be their own contractor for building (but do not labor in the actual construction), but would of course rely on a prefab or manufacturer for those two types of construction.

Sorry, Motley. Canna' provide a reasonable answer. Spent most of the day with California House Flippers in the background on TV an' a semi well-done Pork Roast in th' oven while doin' the dishes t' boot . . . fer cryin' out loud fer crysakes. . . . =)

Tip o' de Day:
Be sure that if you buy a house
with an Irish Wife you are prepared to be patted on the back and kicked in the pants when necessary.

[CuatrodeMayo]

If you are in a hurry and don't mind throwing away money, get a double wide. Otherwise, build. Most of the time modulars are glorified trailers. I would avoid those also.

[Motley]

Thanks all.
I agree building is preferable, but they are on a tight budget. I advised them to check out steel buildings to see if that could be a little less expensive. I am also curious about using cement block construction to help with strong winds and is maybe more energy efficient in the long run.

[kevinpate]

Maybe talk to the folks building OKSea about a container home?

[BBatesokc]

Others have expressed the best longterm financial solution - built, not bought.

That said, I have some friends that bought their 'ideal property' in a rural area some time ago but didn't have enough money to build their 'dream home' yet.

They went with a repossessed doublewide and had it put on the property - but not where their home would be built. They had to do some remodeling of the doublewide but nothing serious or too costly. (you've gotta spend some time looking to find one's in really good shape, but they are out there and priced right)

They lived in it for 8 years before they started building their home.

Their new home is done and they live in it and two elderly relatives live in the doublewide and pay rent.

It worked out very well for them and their financial reality at the time. They also added an underground storm shelter.


I also have a relative we see often that has a prefab home outside of OKC. Nice house, but obviously has a manufactured 'look'. That said, it has so far held up great for at least 18 years and when they bought it they had no intention of moving afterwards and the price was low enough they could pay cash. They also added an underground storm shelter. So, again, was a good fit for their needs.


Third option. Another set of relatives bought their ideal property and built a large metal barn on it. They converted a large portion into a very nice loft style apartment and lived in it while they themselves built their dream home a couple of years later and on their own budget and schedule. Once the house was built they had a barn they already needed and it had a guest apartment.

To me, that last option (live in barn) would work best for me had I been in that situation.