The Rise

[AP]

I think sometimes posters on here view good economic development as anywhere they can get something alcoholic to drink or filling to eat. This rehab is shaping up to really clean up and help turn around a LONG neglected area. It is attracting both COOL places to eat and drink AND basic businesses to be used in the neighborhood. To be so disappointed that another "let's go get drunk" spot didn't happen and to neglect the REALLY COOL fact that this development survived unexpected problems and still was able to complete its mission would be a mistake. Sometimes we are so hard on the people who are really doing things to progress this city that they must feel totally unappreciated. And we wonder why so many prefer to go build a low risk strip center in the suburbs and just make money without all the hassle.

Going to a cool bar to enjoy a night with friends =/= another "let's go get drunk" spot. Feel free to climb down from your ivory tower at anytime Mr. Moral Highground.

[Rover]

Going to a cool bar to enjoy a night with friends =/= another "let's go get drunk" spot. Feel free to climb down from your ivory tower at anytime Mr. Moral Highground.

Not a moral high ground. I like to have a few pops as well. But when that is the measure of whether it is a good development or not, it is a pretty shallow way of looking at it. Especially considering the risk others take to improve the area.

[AP]

Not a moral high ground. I like to have a few pops as well. But when that is the measure of whether it is a good development or not, it is a pretty shallow way of looking at it. Especially considering the risk others take to improve the area.

I think the criticism is due more to the fact the adding good quality restaurants and entertainment does more to advance the district than a cox store. Those places are destinations. Cox stores are not.

[NWOKCGuy]

Not a moral high ground. I like to have a few pops as well. But when that is the measure of whether it is a good development or not, it is a pretty shallow way of looking at it. Especially considering the risk others take to improve the area.

I'd be perfectly happy with retail replacing Fedora and Flashback. I honestly don't even care that a Cox store is going into the development. All that I'm saying is that a Cox store is a big step down from what was being marketed as an upscale center.

[musg8411]

I'd be perfectly happy with retail replacing Fedora and Flashback. I honestly don't even care that a Cox store is going into the development. All that I'm saying is that a Cox store is a big step down from what was being marketed as an upscale center.

I think for what Cox charges for cable they could be considered upscale.

[Pete]

BTW, I have not seen one person "bashing" or "hating" or even suggesting this project isn't awesome for Uptown/23rd and OKC in general.

This site exists to give everyone a voice, and opinions and ideas are generally expressed in a pretty respectful way. Go read the comment section of the Oklahoman if you want to see how badly these things tend to go elsewhere.

We already have the Chamber of Commerce, The Oklahoma and scores of other civic groups that do nothing but cheerlead and provide blind boosterism. So, if that is what you want to read, you have plenty of great sources.

People here should be able to express concerns, disappointment and even criticism without being labeled as some sort of infidel. Otherwise, where is this type of open discussion going to happen?

In fact, it's critical to OKC becoming a better, more engaged community. It's also a crucial part of raising standards, which pretty much everyone agrees are way too low in OKC.


When I was investigating the TEEMCO story (which is on-going, BTW) someone I interviewed said something very astute: "OKC is a great place for a con".

And it's true because of the overwhelming desire of the community -- driven largely by the powers that be -- to suppress conflict and divert attention from bad news.

It's like the parents that never argue. Superficially, that seems to be a good thing when in fact it's completely unhealthy with frequently grave consequences.

[bchris02]

I think the criticism is due more to the fact the adding good quality restaurants and entertainment does more to advance the district than a cox store. Those places are destinations. Cox stores are not.

+1

[Rover]

I guess the question is whether we want an entertainment district or a neighborhood. And, if we want a destination entertainment area, I guess the parking issue becomes more important.

[AP]

I guess the question is whether we want an entertainment district or a neighborhood. And, if we want a destination entertainment area, I guess the parking issue becomes more important.

Do you consider Uptown 23rd a neighborhood? It's one street with no residences. I think the only option is an entertainment district...

[DoctorTaco]

Do you consider Uptown 23rd a neighborhood? It's one street with no residences. I think the only option is an entertainment district...

There are thousands of people that live within a 1/4 mile of 23rd. Hardly an area without residences. In fact there might be more humans in the 1/4 mile surrounding uptown 23rd than in a similar area around the Plaza District, due to more multi-family units in north Mesta Park/south Paso/south Jefferson Park.

[Rover]

Do you consider Uptown 23rd a neighborhood? It's one street with no residences. I think the only option is an entertainment district...

The neighborhood surrounds it. A single street isn't a neighborhood.

[AP]

The neighborhood surrounds it. A single street isn't a neighborhood.

There are neighborhoods around it. They definitely have survived without a cox store, so I don't see how adding it will help contribute. I CAN see how adding restaurants and bars would, though.

[Plutonic Panda]

There are neighborhoods around it. They definitely have survived without a cox store, so I don't see how adding it will help contribute. I CAN see how adding restaurants and bars would, though.

they've survived without the restaurants to.

[AP]

they've survived without the restaurants to.

Did 23rd street survive as a district before them or nah? I guess it did with great destinations like the plasma center and wig shop.

[Pete]

Did 23rd street survive as a district before them or nah? I guess it did with great destinations like the plasma center and wig shop.

*Wig ShopS.

[BDP]

they've survived without the restaurants to.

The core "survived" (barely) for a long time despite the lack of a lot of services and amenities. However, Its revitalization is in large part due to the reemergence of these services. Downtown reestablished itself as a destination in large part because of restaurants and bars. Over the last ten years, we've seen that inspire various neighborhoods in the core to raise their profiles through the addition of bars and restaurants, and then retail. The Paseo is kind of a good case study on this effect. It had long been home to some of the art studios and galleries you see there now. It's core identity and image was already there, but it was the addition of Gallileo (now Picasso's), Isis (now named The Other Room, thankfully!), and the Paseo Grill that really elevated its profile and made it what it is today.

Eventually these places went from destination spots to places in which more people wanted to actually live. They transformed from sleepy neglected neighborhoods to vibrant urban districts in large part through the addition of restaurants. It's a formula that has been bringing older, often forgotten, areas of cities across the nation back to life for almost 25 years now. It has worked over and over again.

All that being said, even with a Cox store instead of a Cigar Bar and a mattress store instead of a retro pub, I agree that this development is still adding much to the district in the way of entertainment and retail and there's more coming that is not part of The Rise. Even with its hardships and delays, I still think it will be transformative and put the street "over the top" in terms of making it a viable place with good draw for many types of tenants. Uptown was long defined by three things things: Wig stores, a decaying Tower Theater, and a massive Hotel Motel liquidator, essentially a junk dealer. Those things (well, maybe not yet the wig stores) are becoming things of the past and with it so goes it's image of just another example of a once vibrant and now dilapidated shopping and entertainment district in the core of an American city.

Honestly, I always saw this part of 23rd as the perfect place for Oklahoma City to develop a small version of, say, a Lower Haight, Lower East side, or maybe an edgier retail sector like Melrose Ave. I was kind of skeptical, or maybe sorta disappointed, when they were looking to go "upscale". However, in the meantime, 16th street kind of became what I was thinking 23rd would be, so maybe a more diverse mix of tenants is what really does make sense now. We don't need two Plaza districts, so it is probably better for these developers to include tenants that cater to a broader cultural demographic. Not sure if a Cox store does this and it's certainly not flashy, but it's certainly a steady tenant. Almost everyone in OKC has Cox and because their equipment sucks, almost all of those people will need to go to a Cox store at some point and swap it out. It does create exposure across a broad, pretty much all encompassing, demographic.

If this was some wholesale conversion to 9-5 service and support tenants, then it would probably be cause for concern. But it's not, and Uptown will still be making a giant leap forward with this development along with the Tower complex coming back to life.

[IanMcDermid]

I modeled the pump after a lot of things I saw in Austin, central Colorado, San Diego, and San Francisco(in regards to the tiny, yet refined kitchen).

And in my travels there's no better example than south congress st in Austin. It, like 23rd is about a mile from Downtown, was once the main traffic artery through town (hiway 77 and hiway 66) mistreated, abused, and "urban renewal-ed" storefronts galore with a dense historic bungalow and multi tenant housing surrounding the area.

It is now an epicenter for funky culture, food trailer parks, bars, venues, the home slice compound (that's a pizza place that got so popular they opened another pizza place right next door, ironic hipster hilarity at it's peak).

Point is: it's a whole district of storefronts, albeit heavy on the food/entertainment. Not just one development on one block on one side of the street. There's blocks. And some of those storefronts are furniture shops, barber shops, a dollar store, and maybe even a cox cable.

We gotta look at the big picture here guys. One little cox store isn't going to ruin the district. A district which could potentially support the neighborhood in ADDITION to providing food and play to the hungry and bored. I think we know *coughbricktowncough* what can happen if a district is purely food/entertainment.

I believe in uptown. Enough to bet the farm on a crumbling gas station off-street before the rise had even broke ground. It's got plenty of room to grow. Plenty of room for cool developments and community infrastructure alike.

Now lets get that damn urban grocery store and set it off!

Don't forget to vote today!

[John Knight]

I modeled the pump after a lot of things I saw in Austin, central Colorado, San Diego, and San Francisco(in regards to the tiny, yet refined kitchen).

And in my travels there's no better example than south congress st in Austin. It, like 23rd is about a mile from Downtown, was once the main traffic artery through town (hiway 77 and hiway 66) mistreated, abused, and "urban renewal-ed" storefronts galore with a dense historic bungalow and multi tenant housing surrounding the area.

It is now an epicenter for funky culture, food trailer parks, bars, venues, the home slice compound (that's a pizza place that got so popular they opened another pizza place right next door, ironic hipster hilarity at it's peak).

Point is: it's a whole district of storefronts, albeit heavy on the food/entertainment. Not just one development on one block on one side of the street. There's blocks. And some of those storefronts are furniture shops, barber shops, a dollar store, and maybe even a cox cable.

We gotta look at the big picture here guys. One little cox store isn't going to ruin the district. A district which could potentially support the neighborhood in ADDITION to providing food and play to the hungry and bored. I think we know *coughbricktowncough* what can happen if a district is purely food/entertainment.

I believe in uptown. Enough to bet the farm on a crumbling gas station off-street before the rise had even broke ground. It's got plenty of room to grow. Plenty of room for cool developments and community infrastructure alike.

Now lets get that damn urban grocery store and set it off!

Don't forget to vote today!

Well said Ian

[bchris02]

The core "survived" (barely) for a long time despite the lack of a lot of services and amenities. However, Its revitalization is in large part due to the reemergence of these services. Downtown reestablished itself as a destination in large part because of restaurants and bars. Over the last ten years, we've seen that inspire various neighborhoods in the core to raise their profiles through the addition of bars and restaurants, and then retail. The Paseo is kind of a good case study on this effect. It had long been home to some of the art studios and galleries you see there now. It's core identity and image was already there, but it was the addition of Gallileo (now Picasso's), Isis (now named The Other Room, thankfully!), and the Paseo Grill that really elevated its profile and made it what it is today.

Eventually these places went from destination spots to places in which more people wanted to actually live. They transformed from sleepy neglected neighborhoods to vibrant urban districts in large part through the addition of restaurants. It's a formula that has been bringing older, often forgotten, areas of cities across the nation back to life for almost 25 years now. It has worked over and over again.

All that being said, even with a Cox store instead of a Cigar Bar and a mattress store instead of a retro pub, I agree that this development is still adding much to the district in the way of entertainment and retail and there's more coming that is not part of The Rise. Even with its hardships and delays, I still think it will be transformative and put the street "over the top" in terms of making it a viable place with good draw for many types of tenants. Uptown was long defined by three things things: Wig stores, a decaying Tower Theater, and a massive Hotel Motel liquidator, essentially a junk dealer. Those things (well, maybe not yet the wig stores) are becoming things of the past and with it so goes it's image of just another example of a once vibrant and now dilapidated shopping and entertainment district in the core of an American city.

Honestly, I always saw this part of 23rd as the perfect place for Oklahoma City to develop a small version of, say, a Lower Haight, Lower East side, or maybe an edgier retail sector like Melrose Ave. I was kind of skeptical, or maybe sorta disappointed, when they were looking to go "upscale". However, in the meantime, 16th street kind of became what I was thinking 23rd would be, so maybe a more diverse mix of tenants is what really does make sense now. We don't need two Plaza districts, so it is probably better for these developers to include tenants that cater to a broader cultural demographic. Not sure if a Cox store does this and it's certainly not flashy, but it's certainly a steady tenant. Almost everyone in OKC has Cox and because their equipment sucks, almost all of those people will need to go to a Cox store at some point and swap it out. It does create exposure across a broad, pretty much all encompassing, demographic.

If this was some wholesale conversion to 9-5 service and support tenants, then it would probably be cause for concern. But it's not, and Uptown will still be making a giant leap forward with this development along with the Tower complex coming back to life.

+1

By the way, I doubted The Rise was ever going to be "upscale" even with the original tenant mix. A destination for OKC with fresh concepts people previously had to drive to Dallas or Tulsa for yes, but not "upscale" which in my opinion is an adjective thrown around way too loosely these days by developers.

Nonetheless, even with the downgraded tenant mix it is still a game changer for Uptown and still has enough new concepts to remain a destination. The district can really go nowhere but up.

[AP]

You can all trumpet how great it is that we are getting a cox store. That doesn't change the fact that it's a huge disappointment that two quality establishments were forced to move because of delays.

[HangryHippo]

I modeled the pump after a lot of things I saw in Austin, central Colorado, San Diego, and San Francisco(in regards to the tiny, yet refined kitchen).

And in my travels there's no better example than south congress st in Austin. It, like 23rd is about a mile from Downtown, was once the main traffic artery through town (hiway 77 and hiway 66) mistreated, abused, and "urban renewal-ed" storefronts galore with a dense historic bungalow and multi tenant housing surrounding the area.

It is now an epicenter for funky culture, food trailer parks, bars, venues, the home slice compound (that's a pizza place that got so popular they opened another pizza place right next door, ironic hipster hilarity at it's peak).

Point is: it's a whole district of storefronts, albeit heavy on the food/entertainment. Not just one development on one block on one side of the street. There's blocks. And some of those storefronts are furniture shops, barber shops, a dollar store, and maybe even a cox cable.

We gotta look at the big picture here guys. One little cox store isn't going to ruin the district. A district which could potentially support the neighborhood in ADDITION to providing food and play to the hungry and bored. I think we know *coughbricktowncough* what can happen if a district is purely food/entertainment.

I believe in uptown. Enough to bet the farm on a crumbling gas station off-street before the rise had even broke ground. It's got plenty of room to grow. Plenty of room for cool developments and community infrastructure alike.

Now lets get that damn urban grocery store and set it off!

Don't forget to vote today!

Like.

I think I'll frequent your business a little more than I had already planned on.

[Plutonic Panda]

Did 23rd street survive as a district before them or nah? I guess it did with great destinations like the plasma center and wig shop.

as pointed out, a neighborhood is more than just a street.

[Plutonic Panda]

The core "survived" (barely) for a long time despite the lack of a lot of services and amenities. However, Its revitalization is in large part due to the reemergence of these services. Downtown reestablished itself as a destination in large part because of restaurants and bars. Over the last ten years, we've seen that inspire various neighborhoods in the core to raise their profiles through the addition of bars and restaurants, and then retail. The Paseo is kind of a good case study on this effect. It had long been home to some of the art studios and galleries you see there now. It's core identity and image was already there, but it was the addition of Gallileo (now Picasso's), Isis (now named The Other Room, thankfully!), and the Paseo Grill that really elevated its profile and made it what it is today.

Eventually these places went from destination spots to places in which more people wanted to actually live. They transformed from sleepy neglected neighborhoods to vibrant urban districts in large part through the addition of restaurants. It's a formula that has been bringing older, often forgotten, areas of cities across the nation back to life for almost 25 years now. It has worked over and over again.

All that being said, even with a Cox store instead of a Cigar Bar and a mattress store instead of a retro pub, I agree that this development is still adding much to the district in the way of entertainment and retail and there's more coming that is not part of The Rise. Even with its hardships and delays, I still think it will be transformative and put the street "over the top" in terms of making it a viable place with good draw for many types of tenants. Uptown was long defined by three things things: Wig stores, a decaying Tower Theater, and a massive Hotel Motel liquidator, essentially a junk dealer. Those things (well, maybe not yet the wig stores) are becoming things of the past and with it so goes it's image of just another example of a once vibrant and now dilapidated shopping and entertainment district in the core of an American city.

Honestly, I always saw this part of 23rd as the perfect place for Oklahoma City to develop a small version of, say, a Lower Haight, Lower East side, or maybe an edgier retail sector like Melrose Ave. I was kind of skeptical, or maybe sorta disappointed, when they were looking to go "upscale". However, in the meantime, 16th street kind of became what I was thinking 23rd would be, so maybe a more diverse mix of tenants is what really does make sense now. We don't need two Plaza districts, so it is probably better for these developers to include tenants that cater to a broader cultural demographic. Not sure if a Cox store does this and it's certainly not flashy, but it's certainly a steady tenant. Almost everyone in OKC has Cox and because their equipment sucks, almost all of those people will need to go to a Cox store at some point and swap it out. It does create exposure across a broad, pretty much all encompassing, demographic.

If this was some wholesale conversion to 9-5 service and support tenants, then it would probably be cause for concern. But it's not, and Uptown will still be making a giant leap forward with this development along with the Tower complex coming back to life.

We're talking about one single restaurant that is replaced with a Cox store. Steve already gave a list of all the tenants that are still staying in the Rise. TWO tenants left, that is it. I am perfectly fine with the Cox store. It has to go somewhere. 23rd district is not a big district. There are tons of new bars and restaurants that are opening up.

[dankrutka]

Of course any urban area needs all kinds of stores and services (e.g., the Cox Store), but these places are not what makes a city unique or distinct. No one ever goes to a city or a district and talks about the local cable store. It's the spaces/places where we meet with others and go with friends and families to be part of the community. Restaurants, bars, coffee shops, bowling alleys and the like allow community members to cultivate relationships and communities to forge identities. The Rise lost two places that offered community places that could have helped to make this a vibrant urban district that did just that. The Cox Store, a mattress store, and the tanning place (previously part of the development) will likely fail to do that. Fedora (correct me if I'm wrong) was going to provide the first outdoor rooftop space where people can gather in this district. All these reasons are why the changes in tenants are disappointing. This section of 23rd could have (and still could) really be a special place in OKC. It just took a bit of a step back now as a space/place for the local community.

[PhiAlpha]

I've been on board with this project the whole time. I don't understand the hate on Land Run here. Has anyone bitching at them developed anything before? One day I certainly want to become a developer so I need to try and maintain an open mind about this sort of stuff.

Do you honestly think Land Run wanted it to be delayed? I bet they're madder than anyone here about it. Sh't doesn't alway go according to plan and things get delayed.

As for the new tenants, not everything is going to be a new hip restaurant or an urban Target/CVS. I am perfectly fine with Cox opening up a store here. It had to go somewhere. It's tenant money for Land Run, people being employed, people being added to the street life, and whatever taxes they pay for operating. Seems like a great deal to me.

Believe it or not, people go to stores to shop for mattresses, cell phones, cable plans and accessories, light bulbs etc.

I can tell you from the perspective of a friend who was actually involved in the development that there is plenty reason to "hate on" Land Run. There were definitely legitimate delays, but Land Run has made many mistakes as well that have caused more delays. You don't finish a development 1.5+ years after the planned date, without some major mistakes. The delays significantly affected the businesses that left the Rise.

From the perspective of someone who lives down the street from the Rise, as far as the tenants go...it's great that Land Run was able to get it completely leased again, but the new tenants are a downgrade and I'm not sure how that's even an argument. Instead of getting two bars/restaurants that will add many people to the street life in Uptown from midday until 2AM every day we're getting two stores that will only add 20-50 people a day to the street life on a good day between the hours of 9 AM and 7 PM. A cox store absolutely did not need to go somewhere in uptown because there is one about a mile away on 23rd St. Just think about it, how many times a week/month do you need to visit a cable provider physical location (or really per year after your initial set up)? How many times a week/month do you go to a store to look at or buy furniture? On the other side, how many times a week/month do you frequent a bar or restaurant? Losing Flashback and Fedora in Uptown because Land Run at least partially didn't know what they were getting into is a disappointment, the fact that they are being replaced by tenants that much fewer people will have a reason to visit makes it even more disappointing. Had Cox and a Furniture store been announced as the original tenants, while it wouldn't have been exciting, it wouldn't have been near as disappointing as losing better original tenants.