Question

[JohnnyW]

No disrespect, but yours is just as disingenuous by implying your family was "more loving" merely by virtue of the fact that BBates imposed rules. You can't get away with that.

I haven't made any huge deal about privacy "rights" with my kids. They have (almost) none. I've just made it known I can look at anything, anytime, anywhere, including computers, books, and so on. I'm their dad, not their buddy, their landlord, or whatever else might come to mind. And in that time I've come across a few things I had to deal with, they were dealt with, and we moved on. Have I ever gone on a scorched-earth "search and destroy" mission looking for incriminating things? No, but by the same token I've never been given a second glance on those occasions when I've come into their room and looked for something entirely innocuous I suspected might be in a desk or dresser, and I've never had the sense they hesitated in my doing so in a "defensive" way. In that vein, I won't make any pretense of perfection by any means, but neither my 18-year-old son nor my 16-year-old daughter have ever confronted me in the manner described by the OP.

I respect their privacy when it comes to obvious, "duh" things like getting dressed in the morning, of course, but I'd have to assume that goes without saying.

Can you please point to the post where I stated my family was "more loving?" This is yet another logical fallacy called a strawman. You have attempted to put up a defense of something that I have simply not stated.

[SoonerDave]

Can you please point to the post where I stated my family was "more loving?" This is yet another logical fallacy called a strawman. You have attempted to put up a defense of something that I have simply not stated.

Be glad to.

Negative. I just know that I would rather have a more loving and caring parents that were open and honest with me. It would make me much more willing to come home and see them and show them love when I got older and wiser.

You stated quite plainly in response to a post regarding rules and authority that your contrarian preference would be one that was more loving. If that's not an obvious implication that the former is less loving, I don't know what is.

[Uncle Slayton]

This is one of the threads that has really bugged me...stuck with me (regardless of the posting status of the OP). My parents, rest their souls, would have thought it a parody or some sort of trick question.

I have been whipped with everything from a razor strop to a willow switch (cut by my own hand with my own pocketknife, to my father's specifications) and I turned out just fine, by most societal measures...productive, college educated adult, raised kids who are in college, doing well, can feed, clothe, and shelter myself, etc.

Loved my parents both til the day they died, and miss them every day and not a rancorous thought toward them.

[Jeepnokc]

This is one of the threads that has really bugged me...stuck with me (regardless of the posting status of the OP). My parents, rest their souls, would have thought it a parody or some sort of trick question.

I have been whipped with everything from a razor strop to a willow switch (cut by my own hand with my own pocketknife, to my father's specifications) and I turned out just fine, by most societal measures...productive, college educated adult, raised kids who are in college, doing well, can feed, clothe, and shelter myself, etc.

Loved my parents both til the day they died, and miss them every day and not a rancorous thought toward them.

Sometimes having to get the switch was more punishment than the swat. My Dad didn't specify. Thus, my 8-9 yr old brain was out in the yard trying to weigh out the mechanics of a green switch bending versus a dead switch maybe breaking. I have turned out ok and absolutely no ill will towards parents.

[Dennis Heaton]

Sometimes having to get the switch was more punishment than the swat. My Dad didn't specify. Thus, my 8-9 yr old brain was out in the yard trying to weigh out the mechanics of a green switch bending versus a dead switch maybe breaking. I have turned out ok and absolutely no ill will towards parents.

[JohnnyW]

Be glad to.



You stated quite plainly in response to a post regarding rules and authority that your contrarian preference would be one that was more loving. If that's not an obvious implication that the former is less loving, I don't know what is.

Yes I stated that I would rather have more loving and caring parents. This does not mean that I did have those kind of parents does it? You are making an assumption and therefore again, putting up a strawman as a defense for something I didn't say.

[JohnnyW]

This is one of the threads that has really bugged me...stuck with me (regardless of the posting status of the OP). My parents, rest their souls, would have thought it a parody or some sort of trick question.

I have been whipped with everything from a razor strop to a willow switch (cut by my own hand with my own pocketknife, to my father's specifications) and I turned out just fine, by most societal measures...productive, college educated adult, raised kids who are in college, doing well, can feed, clothe, and shelter myself, etc.

Loved my parents both til the day they died, and miss them every day and not a rancorous thought toward them.

That is not a logical argument sir. Just because you turned out fine does not mean the method was the most effective. People survived a thousand years ago with no electricity or plumbing and they turned out fine. Does that mean that they lived a better life? Now that we have become more civilized and more intelligent as a species, we can find better methods to raising children other than inflicting pain.

[rezman]

He put the cat in his room and shut his door as he was coming out of his room and I got up and opened it to let the cat out so that it wouldn't claw at the carpet around the door tearing it up. I then walked in to his room looking for the cat that is when he came up behind me telling me to get out of his room.

Then yes, he was out of line.

[Dennis Heaton]

Is there ANY connection between the rise in ADHD in children and civilized parents using better methods to raise their children?

[rezman]

Couldn't have said that because that would have sent him on a tirade. that would have escalated more than it was worth. I just walked off talking under my breath, he frequently tell both his mom and me step dad to shut up and stuff like that.

That is a sure sign that you are not in control of your household.

[JohnnyW]

Is there ANY connection between the rise in ADHD in children and civilized parents using better methods to raise their children?

Could you please expand on what these better methods are and also why you decided to underline a certain part of your post? If so, we could start looking for any peer-reviewed scientific studies to find if there has been any causation of ADHD and how they are related to the effects of the method that you are implying.

[Jeepnokc]

That is not a logical argument sir. Just because you turned out fine does not mean the method was the most effective. People survived a thousand years ago with no electricity or plumbing and they turned out fine. Does that mean that they lived a better life? Now that we have become more civilized and more intelligent as a species, we can find better methods to raising children other than inflicting pain.

I think a lot of it depends on the child. I can talk sternly to my 11 yr old and he will start crying. Other than a few light swats with my hand on the boom boom when they were much smaller, I find that there are more effective ways to get my kid's attention nowadays. Of course, when I was a kid...you couldn't take away my ipod.

[Dennis Heaton]

That is not a logical argument sir. Just because you turned out fine does not mean the method was the most effective. People survived a thousand years ago with no electricity or plumbing and they turned out fine. Does that mean that they lived a better life? Now that we have become more civilized and more intelligent as a species, we can find better methods to raising children other than inflicting pain.

Could you please expand on what these better methods are and also why you decided to underline a certain part of your post? If so, we could start looking for any peer-reviewed scientific studies to find if there has been any causation of ADHD and how they are related to the effects of the method that you are implying.

JohnnyW...I was referring to your own comment. What better methods were you implying? As far as researching this further, it's on my list for later this Summer.
.

[JohnnyW]

I think a lot of it depends on the child. I can talk sternly to my 11 yr old and he will start crying. Other than a few light swats with my hand on the boom boom when they were much smaller, I find that there are more effective ways to get my kid's attention nowadays. Of course, when I was a kid...you couldn't take away my ipod.

Could you please provide evidence that the the methods of teaching is dependent on the child and what factors are we considering? They could not take away your ipod of course, but they could take away another toy which I would believe is of equal value to a the child.

On a personal level, which you may not wish to answer and is understandable, have you tried other methods or researched other methods?

[JohnnyW]

JohnnyW...I was referring to your own comment. What better methods were you implying? As far as researching this further, it's on my list for later this Summer.
.

I was not implying any other certain methods when I posted the comment. However, we can certainly brainstorm some other ways other than inflicting pain I am sure. Children are humans just like us but just at another stage of development. Their brain is certainly capable of learning as we continue to learn until the day we die. Perhaps we could ask the child why do you think it was wrong for him to do the certain action. We could see if he can connect the dots on why certain actions are looked down upon in our society and why.

[kevinpate]

... Of course, when I was a kid...you couldn't take away my ipod.

Nope, but they could tell ya to park the lean mean dragster machine with the banana seat and tiny front wheel and just use your feet on the payment instead of the pedals. Dang the day they figured out that was the second most severe thing someone could do to me, following real close behind nope, turn the eight track player off ... hey, should have finished mowing.

[Jeepnokc]

Could you please provide evidence that the the methods of teaching is dependent on the child and what factors are we considering? They could not take away your ipod of course, but they could take away another toy which I would believe is of equal value to a the child.

On a personal level, which you may not wish to answer and is understandable, have you tried other methods or researched other methods?

I can do just as much good talking sternly to my 11 yr old without swatting him. He is much more sensitive. My 14 yr old daughter is very stubborn and headstrong. When she was ten or eleven, a swat on the boom boom was much more effective than talking to her because she would just tune you out. Now...taking away her iphone is more effective. It is based on my own experience. May be wrong but it has worked for us. I think different things motivate people. When I say a swat on the boom boom...always with ahnd and never enough to leave a mark. Just the fact that you would do it was usually enough with her to work and she has probably been swatted less than 5 times her entire life. We became instant parents to three overnight when they were 5-4-2 so there was a learning curve. Our parenting style changed several times over the years as we learned what worked for us and adapted to what worked with each child's personality. There is also a difference between lightly swatting a child and getting his/her attention and beating a child causing pain and leaving marks.

[KenRagsdale]

I can do just as much good talking sternly to my 11 yr old without swatting him. He is much more sensitive. My 14 yr old daughter is very stubborn and headstrong. When she was ten or eleven, a swat on the boom boom was much more effective than talking to her because she would just tune you out. Now...taking away her iphone is more effective. It is based on my own experience. May be wrong but it has worked for us. I think different things motivate people. When I say a swat on the boom boom...always with ahnd and never enough to leave a mark. Just the fact that you would do it was usually enough with her to work and she has probably been swatted less than 5 times her entire life. We became instant parents to three overnight when they were 5-4-2 so there was a learning curve. Our parenting style changed several times over the years as we learned what worked for us and adapted to what worked with each child's personality. There is also a difference between lightly swatting a child and getting his/her attention and beating a child causing pain and leaving marks.

As a father of two, now grown, may I get an "amen" from the assembled congregants?

[Dennis Heaton]

As a father of two, now grown, may I get an "amen" from the assembled congregants?

With 2 of 3, now grown...I can give ya an "ame_."

[kevinpate]

Amen.

And Jeep, I just have to ask. If it has happened already, how old was your daughter when you first learned there was such a thing as THE sweatshirt? Not the best morning of my life, having grown up believing (apparently oh so incorrectly) that a sweatshirt was a sweatshirt.

[Dennis Heaton]

Amen.

And Jeep, I just have to ask. If it has happened already, how old was your daughter when you first learned there was such a thing as THE sweatshirt? Not the best morning of my life, having grown up believing (apparently oh so incorrectly) that a sweatshirt was a sweatshirt.

My daughter's "sweatshirt" was her Myrtle Beach sweatshirt...looooooooooong before they came out with "The Sweatshirt Dance."

[Jim Kyle]

As a father of two, now grown, may I get an "amen" from the assembled congregants?

With three boys, now all grown and two of them parents of grown children themselves, i"ll give you a hearty "amen!!!"

My oldest would pick fights with his next younger brother from the age of two, usually at bedtime, and would not stop until I whopped his bottom with a rolled-up newspaper. Once I noticed that it was taking more whops each week, until finally I shredded an entire edition of the Sunday Oklahoman without result, my wife observed that possibly he was doing it simply to get more attention.

We started ignoring that behavior and sure enough it went away for a while -- then returned. We discovered then that said middle son was egging the older one on, so that middle son could be amused by watching elder brother get into trouble! Arrival of number three put an end to that, though. They both picked on the youngest!

No matter what one does, so long as food, shelter, and acceptance as part of the family are there, they seem to turn out okay. Eldest son is now a Baptist minister and a grandfather himself. Middle son is a successful local businessman. Youngest is a software developer back east and keeps his distance from his brothers. All three were warned that they could expect to be on their own once they reached the age of 18, and were taught basic housekeeping well in advance to prepare them. We followed "Mama Cat" philosophy; train the kittens to fend for themselves, then push them out of the nest once they're able to do so. Seems to have worked quite well for us; might not for anyone else, though.

[Dennis Heaton]

The BEST parents in the whole, wide, world...Cliff and Clair Huxtable.



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