Plaza District Living

[adaniel]

If I were still in OKC, I would definitely be looking at places like Gatewood. One thing I noticed just among my circle is that, save for a few block south of the Paseo and around Douglas Edgemere, the historical neighborhoods east of Classen are becoming out of reach for a lot of people, especially for first time buyers. I got this off of Zillow so take it for what its worth, but I only see 22 houses for sale in that area east of Classen and north of 13th. Most are well north of 300K.

So that leaves more affordable areas west of Classen like Gatewood and other areas that have been "stablized" enough that they would appeal to a wide enough group of potential buyers. I would include Cleveland and Linwood Park in that grouping as well. Crestwood, Miller, Sheppard Heights, and Putnam Heights are not far behind.

[Pete]

I would love to see Positively Paseo increase their output.

They do remodels and new construction in Jefferson Park and CTP and their houses get snatched up almost immediately.

If they (or a similar group or even private developer) could clear out a bunch of blight all at once, even the sketchy streets would turn around pretty fast.

[tillyato]

I know Positively Paseo is building or completely remodeling at least 5 houses in CTP this year with more planned in the future, hopefully they can help lead to the same type on revitalization in CTP that we've seen in the Paseo over the last 10-15 years.

[DoctorTaco]

I would love to see Positively Paseo increase their output.

They do remodels and new construction in Jefferson Park and CTP and their houses get snatched up almost immediately.

If they (or a similar group or even private developer) could clear out a bunch of blight all at once, even the sketchy streets would turn around pretty fast.

If y'all like Positively Paseo so much, please note that they are a non-profit and gladly accept tax-deductible donations. I'm sure there is a correlation between donations taken in and blight eliminated. Hint hint.

[bluedogok]

My grandparents bungalow house on 22nd was $8,000 in 1976....that's not missing any zeros. We did have to jack up the back of the house and rebuild the kitchen but everything else was in the 20's on that street at that time.

[warreng88]

I live in Crestwood, bought my house in 2007 at $89,000 and we could sell it tomorrow for $125,000 all day. We have done some renovations to it but we love our house, love the neighborhood and probably won't sell it for a couple of years. We are a five minute bike ride from the Plaza district and a little more than that to Midtown.

[DoctorTaco]

I live in Crestwood, bought my house in 2007 at $89,000 and we could sell it tomorrow for $125,000 all day. We have done some renovations to it but we love our house, love the neighborhood and probably won't sell it for a couple of years. We are a five minute bike ride from the Plaza district and a little more than that to Midtown.

Crestwood also feeds to Cleveland Elementary, one of the best in OKCPS. Also our realtor told us that the houses in Crestwood are of a better, more-durable design than those in Mesta or Gatewood and tend to have fewer maintenance issues. In spite of all this, we got obsessed with Mesta Park and paid a lot more $$ than we set out to...

[Mr. Cotter]

If the house I wanted in Crestwood didn't sit right against Villa (way too much road noise), I would be living there instead of Cleveland. I think Crestwood is a fantastic neighborhood. I also think Cleveland is fantastic. As I mentioned up thread, I'm not moving. If I ever do move, it will be out of state or to a retirement home. I'm committed, and I don't quit.

[Just the facts]

The best deterrent to crime is the influx of non-criminals, and the higher the in-flux rate of non-criminals the faster the criminals move on to some place else, or simply chose to be non-criminals themselves. It is amazing what positive neighbors/role models can do for a neighborhood.

[EBAH]

I live in Crestwood, bought my house in 2007 at $89,000 and we could sell it tomorrow for $125,000 all day. We have done some renovations to it but we love our house, love the neighborhood and probably won't sell it for a couple of years. We are a five minute bike ride from the Plaza district and a little more than that to Midtown.

I Could have written this exact post. only the price of our house was slightly different by +/- a few grand. The plaza has been great for us!

[okclee]

I think a big difference from people moving from suburbs to inner city areas are actually seeing poor and transient people daily. You will see the same people and even get to know them a little, the guy that rummages threw your recycle bucket or the guy that holds the sign on the street corner, the guy that hangs out at the 7-11 straight asking for handouts. There are people that will come door to door saying they need food for their new infant baby or sick family members. Some are hustlin' some are in real need. I know this bothers some people, I grew up inner city so it's normal for me. You need to keep an eye out at all times, it's not Detroit or East StL but don't turn a blind eye or be intimidated to report what you see. Don't be afraid to politely say NO either.

Another piece of advice is get to know all your surrounding neighbors, including behind your house. Even if they are renters or less desirable types, let them know you are there and are keeping an eye out for both you and for them. Anyway, that is a few of my 2cents.

[soonerguru]

I think a big difference from people moving from suburbs to inner city areas are actually seeing poor and transient people daily. You will see the same people and even get to know them a little, the guy that rummages threw your recycle bucket or the guy that holds the sign on the street corner, the guy that hangs out at the 7-11 straight asking for handouts. There are people that will come door to door saying they need food for their new infant baby or sick family members. Some are hustlin' some are in real need. I know this bothers some people, I grew up inner city so it's normal for me. You need to keep an eye out at all times, it's not Detroit or East StL but don't turn a blind eye or be intimidated to report what you see. Don't be afraid to politely say NO either.

Another piece of advice is get to know all your surrounding neighbors, including behind your house. Even if they are renters or less desirable types, let them know you are there and are keeping an eye out for both you and for them. Anyway, that is a few of my 2cents.

This is true. One observation I've made is that inner city dwellers have more in common with residents of small towns than suburbanites. Why? Because just like in inner city, mixed neighborhoods, small town dwellers are used to interacting with people of all social strata. Suburbanites want to live in neighborhoods in which everyone pays the same for their home, looks like them, goes to the same church, etc. They certainly don't want to interact with poor people.

[Dubya61]

This is true. One observation I've made is that inner city dwellers have more in common with residents of small towns than suburbanites. Why? Because just like in inner city, mixed neighborhoods, small town dwellers are used to interacting with people of all social strata. Suburbanites want to live in neighborhoods in which everyone pays the same for their home, looks like them, goes to the same church, etc. They certainly don't want to interact with poor people.

Bigoted stereotype.

[CuatrodeMayo]

So after growing up and living in the suburbs pretty much our whole lives, my wife and I got the itch to live closer to the urban core. Being huge fans of the Plaza and Uptown 23rd, it started off as a joke to sell our house and move to Uptown. Well, through a hilarious set of events, we actually found a nice little house we really like and are considering taking the plunge.

I'm not looking to start another Urban vs. Suburban war. What I would like to know is if anyone has made the move from the suburbs to an area like the Plaza. I love the area and it's potential, but growing up in neighborhoods with carpet-like lawns, HOA's, and mass produced housing, the Plaza's can be really exciting but also a little bit scary. Some streets are very well kept and beautiful, then some look very inner-city-esque (no offense to anyone who lives there, just different considering my background).

I'm excited to be a part of the growth of the city, as well as having so much art, music, and culture outside of my door. But I would also love to hear if anyone else has made a similar move and what to expect or look out for. Is there something you didn't consider until you had already moved? And not to give in to the stereotype, is crime something I should be more concerned with than on the city outskirts?

Thanks!

I too grew up in the burbs (Edmond).

When we moved back to the OKC metro area, we made the decision to make our home in the inner-city neighborhoods of OKC. After a stint in Jefferson Park, we ended up on Gatewood Ave. between 16^th and 17^th (next to the Plaza and behind the theater). We lived there from August of 2010 until this April when we packed up and moved to Seattle.

Housing: The homes in Gatewood can be really nice or really rough depending on which street you are on. The nicest areas are generally between Carey Place on the east and Virginia on the west between 16^th & 23^rd. The nicest (and largest) homes (like Tillyato’s) are clustered around St. Francis. The worst areas are generally along Blackwelder and McKinley between 16^th & 23^rd. There is another small pocket of nicer homes north of Classen SAS between Douglas and Classen. Most of the multi-family buildings are along 17^th east of Indiana with a few others scattered around. These range from nice student/YP housing to tenements. Well-maintained older homes are hard to find. Most have either been extremely neglected or have suffered ill-advised “updates”.

Safety: Most of the “scary” people you see wandering the neighborhood are 99% harmless. They are the remnants of Gatewood past and largely live in dilapidated apartment buildings on the rougher streets. Most just go about their day and mind their own business. I’ve found they don’t really acknowledge anybody outside their “circle”. Others wander the neighborhood digging through dumpsters. Occasionally they will hassle you for change, but not usually.

For a period of time, the 4-plex across from our home was drug house. People of all sorts going in and out at all hours of the day and night. Eventually the dealers moved on, largely as a result of the efforts of myself, our neighbors, and the police. But honestly, even those folks never really caused any trouble. Someone with a bit of capital and know-how could really make some money on that building. I considered doing it myself but the timing wasn’t right (if they would even sell).

Petty crime can be an issue if you don’t take simple precautions. Since many houses don’t have garages, folks park their cars in the driveway or streets. If you leave anything slightly valuable (or something that looks like it could contain something valuable) in your car on a regular basis, I can promise you your window will get knocked out. At a minimum, good exterior lighting is a must.

There is not really any gang activity that I am aware of in the neighborhood. Most of that has moved on to more fertile territory. There is occasional tagging, but it’s more of a nuisance than a threat.

Children: When we moved to J-Park we were expecting our first child, but by the time we left Gatewood we had three children, ages 5, 3, & 1. It worked out extremely well for us. Since I was only 5 min from the office, I could come home and spend my lunch hour with them. We were within an easy bike ride of downtown so we were able to spend a lot of time roaming the Gardens & Bricktown and participating in all the interesting activities going on in the city. A good friend of my lives on 17^th and just had his 3^rd child. They bought a fixer-upper a few years ago and plan on staying there for a long time.

One down side is that the nearest park is McKinley Park and I wasn’t brave enough to take the kids there. We usually went to Pearle Mesta instead. However, last month a new playground was installed at Gatewood Elementary, so that problem might be solved.

I can’t really speak to the schools since we’re weirdos and home school. However the Plaza District and Gatewood UCD have been very involved in Gatewood and Eugene Field hopefully those schools will improve. With the influx of Millennial parents into the neighborhood, I can imagine the parental involvement in the schools will also dramatically increase as well.

Walkability: In spite of being within the inner-city and its proximity to the Plaza District, Gatewood as a whole is not terribly walkable with some areas being better than others. Most of the mundane goods and services (grocery stores, pharmacies, etc.) are located outside the neighborhood along the bordering arterial streets. A lack of sidewalks, especially along the arterial streets severely inhibits the ability to access these important goods and services. The Plaza District is very walkable, but its scope is still quite limited at this stage.

Transit: Gatewood and the Plaza see to be decently served with routes that run along all the bordering arterial streets and a few that run through the neighborhood along Indiana & 16^th. The Plaza is also a likely candidate for an extension of the MAPS 3 streetcar.

Classen-Ten-Penn: There is an occasional house or row of houses that are reasonably well taken care of, but they are few and far between. In spite of the recent interest in the neighborhood, this place is still really rough. The existing housing stock limits this neighborhood’s potential. The houses in this neighborhood tend to be smaller than those in Gatewood and have been allowed to deteriorate much further. Due to their size and condition, a significant number of the houses in CTP are beyond saving. The best hope for this neighborhood is a combination of brave pioneers buying a home and moving into the neighborhood and an intrepid developer who would be willing renovate/rebuild the neighborhood an entire street at a time.

[Richard at Remax]

This is true. One observation I've made is that inner city dwellers have more in common with residents of small towns than suburbanites. Why? Because just like in inner city, mixed neighborhoods, small town dwellers are used to interacting with people of all social strata. Suburbanites want to live in neighborhoods in which everyone pays the same for their home, looks like them, goes to the same church, etc. They certainly don't want to interact with poor people.

Where's the dislike button? My neighborhood in suburbia is full of all different kinds of families, cultures, and races. Just a silly thing to say

[Rover]

This is true. One observation I've made is that inner city dwellers have more in common with residents of small towns than suburbanites. Why? Because just like in inner city, mixed neighborhoods, small town dwellers are used to interacting with people of all social strata. Suburbanites want to live in neighborhoods in which everyone pays the same for their home, looks like them, goes to the same church, etc. They certainly don't want to interact with poor people.

Surely you aren't serious. This kind of inane stereotype reduces credibility to zero or below. So much for enlightened urbanista millenials.

[Urbanized]

Guru is no Millennial.

[Rover]

Guru is no Millennial.

Sorry, didn't mean to insult all millenials.

[OKCretro]

lived in gatewood growing up in the 1980's, house was broken into only once and had cars stolen twice. we were always outside, riding bikes, shooting hoops with all the kids in the neighborhood. Lived right by Rosary. Am truly amazed what has happened on 16th. We were not allowed to go to the big boy there or any of those places. I remember there was an awesome hole-in-the-wall BBQ place at one point.